Fish Finder for a Kayak

[KSanford33]

So currently I have a Garmin Striker 4 on my kayak. It's a SeaStream Angler Pedal 12 (thanks to a review I read on here). I can't justify upgrading to LiveScope or anything like that yet, but are there any suggestions for something a little nicer? Thanks everyone.

[MN Fisher]

Go to an Echomap

 

A UHD 63CV would give you down-scan and built in maps and not be much larger

 

You would have to go to the 7" models to get side-scan.

[Bankc]

Why are you wanting to upgrade and what don't you like about the Striker 4?  What features do you require or are interested in?  What's your budget?  Do you like the way your Garmin is set up?

 

Some people like huge screens and some don't.  Some people use down scan and side scan a lot, and others prefer to stick to traditional sonar.  Some people don't care for maps, and others use them religiously.  Some people like simplified menus so they don't get lost, and others like tons of options so they can really tweak the unit to exactly how they like it.  Some have room for big transducers, and others only have space for small transducers.  Lots of factors to consider here.  The good news is, you have some experience with one already, so there's a starting place to go from that should help make the search a bit easier now. 

[KSanford33]

32 minutes ago, Bankc said:

Why are you wanting to upgrade and what don't you like about the Striker 4?  What features do you require or are interested in?  What's your budget?  Do you like the way your Garmin is set up?

 

Some people like huge screens and some don't.  Some people use down scan and side scan a lot, and others prefer to stick to traditional sonar.  Some people don't care for maps, and others use them religiously.  Some people like simplified menus so they don't get lost, and others like tons of options so they can really tweak the unit to exactly how they like it.  Some have room for big transducers, and others only have space for small transducers.  Lots of factors to consider here.  The good news is, you have some experience with one already, so there's a starting place to go from that should help make the search a bit easier now. 

Those are all excellent questions. The only reason I want to upgrade is because I feel like the Striker 4 is about as basic as it gets. Unfortunately, the rest is a matter of not knowing what I don't know. Does side scan work with kayaks? I'd love to get something that has a little more accuracy. Not that I think the Garmin is inaccurate, but it's tough to differentiate between weeds, baitfish, and actual fish. 

 I think I'm more interested in the opinions of others and what they like and don't like about their setup.

[Darth-Baiter]

K.   I started with the same Garmin. 
 

I too wanted to upgrade.  Mostly for GPS and maps.  I just took a tiny step up with the Lowrance Hook5 Reveal.  I wish I could say there isn’t a hiding place I can’t penetrate with my FF, but I can’t.  It’s the same fish finding abilities.  I just see arches. 
 

I didn’t upgrade to the point my battery was undersized.  Something I wanted to keep in mind.  I imagine some of the more elaborate and bigger units suck way more juice. 
 

I didn’t get side scan but I would if I took another step up. Seems useful. 

[Cory20]

I'm pretty bummed because I bought a kayak that has a terrible transducer mounting system. I would make a list of which transducers and technologies you can safely mount, then narrow down after that. It would be a real shame to get a nice down + side imaging unit to find out the giant transducer sticks way out and is at risk every time you launch or go over some brush.

 

Other than that I would take MN Fishers advice for my own setup 

[casts_by_fly]

I went Helix 7 MSI GPS.  Its a great fish finder for a kayak.  Side imaging works perfectly.  Down and 2D obviously work great.  I put mine on an extra long arm setup because I stand to fish.  I tilt it down if I'm in the seat and mapping something or tilt it up to where I can almost touch it while standing and fishing.  The transduced for the Helix 7 is still small compared to the bigger/longer transducers so it really tucks up under the boat.  Its got side, down, and 2D sonar plus GPS for mapping and heading.  I've since added a zero lines card from Humminbird to record the autochart maps for all of my lakes.  I just turn it on when I launch and let it map while I fish.  I wouldn't mind a bigger one, and touchscreen would be nice.  That said, I don't feel like I am undergunned in the electronics department.

 

Only consideration- if you want to add livescope/mega360/new technology in the future, be sure to get a newer model that will be compatible.  Mine is NOT compatible with any of those.  I wouldn't mind having 360 but it means upgrading to an 8N.

 

thanks

rick

 

 

[Bankc]

Differentiating between fish and structure takes practice and a careful eye.  A better sonar unit won't really help you there.  And sometimes, when the fish are relating closely to structure, you can't see them anyway, no matter how good you and your sonar are.  Though, it does help to know there's structure down there and there's likely fish on that structure, based on some of the other knowledge you've acquired as an angler.  

 

For me, I almost never use sidescan.  It works, but it's not great with detail at slower kayak speeds.  And it rarely shows me things I didn't already know.  And the sidescan option comes with a crazy long transducer which is a headache to mess with.  If I were to do it over again, I'd skip likely that on a kayak, but it's worth it on a power boat. 

 

Downscan is nice, but it too doesn't show me much more than sonar.  If you know how to read sonar, it pretty much shows you the same useful information, but the downscan just provides extra clarity and fine detail that you don't really need to catch fish.  Still, it's nice to have and doesn't really come with a downside of owning.

 

I'm not interested in a touch screen.  I have enough trouble keeping my screen clean as it is, and any oil or water that builds up on the screen makes it even harder to read in the sun.  

 

What I use the most is the old fashion sonar and GPS maps.  I especially like to use C-maps Social Maps, which are user created maps that will often have smaller ponds and lakes that the big, expensive mapping companies don't.  

[KSanford33]

1 hour ago, casts_by_fly said:

I went Helix 7 MSI GPS.  Its a great fish finder for a kayak.  Side imaging works perfectly.  Down and 2D obviously work great.  I put mine on an extra long arm setup because I stand to fish.  I tilt it down if I'm in the seat and mapping something or tilt it up to where I can almost touch it while standing and fishing.  The transduced for the Helix 7 is still small compared to the bigger/longer transducers so it really tucks up under the boat.  Its got side, down, and 2D sonar plus GPS for mapping and heading.  I've since added a zero lines card from Humminbird to record the autochart maps for all of my lakes.  I just turn it on when I launch and let it map while I fish.  I wouldn't mind a bigger one, and touchscreen would be nice.  That said, I don't feel like I am undergunned in the electronics department.

 

Only consideration- if you want to add livescope/mega360/new technology in the future, be sure to get a newer model that will be compatible.  Mine is NOT compatible with any of those.  I wouldn't mind having 360 but it means upgrading to an 8N.

 

thanks

rick

 

 

You bring up an excellent point. I'm planning on upgrading to a boat within the next year or so, so if those upgrades would perform better in an actual boat, it'd probably be worth getting one that is upgradeable. Thank you sir!

[Koz]

10 hours ago, KSanford33 said:

It's a SeaStream Angler Pedal 12 (thanks to a review I read on here). 

 

You're welcome ?

 

I have a Lowrance Hook2 5 Tripleshot (sonar, downscan, sidescan) on my Seastream. I bought a reconditioned unit from the Lowrance website, and as far as I could tell it was brand new. There was not a blemish on it. I would bet it was a demo unit at trade shows. Best of all, it was about half price of a new unit.

 

So before I go on, how much do you use your Garmin and what do you expect out of a fishfinder? Are you using it to accurately target fish and places to fish or do you find you use it mostly for depth and water temperature readings?

 

The reason I ask is that I may see fish on sonar or downscan when I'm traversing deeper waters, but I rarely stop and target those fish because I'm just not a good or patient deep water angler and I prefer to fish shallower waters.

 

I'm still on the fence about my sidescan. First off, the lake I fish is pretty much featureless. It's a muddy bottom with little to no vegetation. There are some rocks and timber in some spots, but not an abundance of those things where I fish. I mean, really, there is nothing out there. Not on my side scan or on my downscan. I'm better off look at bathymetric maps and targeting humps, drop offs, points, and flats.

 

The other issue I have with my sidescan is that it's tough to see things on a 5" screen. It would be great to set the scan distance at 60-100 feet, traverse the area, and mark structure. But it's hard to see the detail you're looking for on a small screen. And let's face it, you're not going to cover a lot of area moving 2-3 mph in a kayak. You could spend hours out there and not cover that much water. I'd rather spend that time fishing.

 

Of course, if you're in a boat you could cover a ton of water with your sidescan in an hour or two. So the question isn't whether or not sidescan works with a kayak (it does), but rather is it practical when you can't cover a lot of water and mark structure?

 

I've set out some days to try and take time to use sidescan on some areas, but on a big lake with lots of boat traffic it's not all that fun and I'd rather be fishing and not just pedaling and staring at a screen. Sure, I could put a bigger unit on there to make it easier to see what's on the side scan, but for me space is at a premium on my kayak and I'm already casting around the pedal drive, the fish finder, and my Yak Attack CellBlok.

 

Sidescan is also nothing like Live Target. Yes, you can pick up fish if you set a narrow field, but by then you're already past them and you've got to stop, back up, or turn around - things that are easier to do with a boat and a trolling motor than in a kayak. I'd rather be actively fishing my way along that area than staring at a screen.

 

My opinion on sidescan for kayaks is you need to consider the size of the body of water you're fishing, how much structure you know is already out there, and how much patience you have to spend a lot of time out there marking structure. You might be that guy that has the patience to do that. I'm not that guy, although I keep telling myself one of these days I'm going to spend hours scanning and marking. Maybe I need to leave my fishing rods behind that day.

[Koz]

9 hours ago, Cory N said:

I'm pretty bummed because I bought a kayak that has a terrible transducer mounting system.

 

Have you tried a deployment arm system like the Yak Attack Switchblade?

[Bluebasser86]

I just upgraded mine this winter to a Lowrance Elite7 TI2. I've been very happy with it so far after getting some initial issues worked out (first unit I bought had a bad head unit but they replaced it no questions).

 

As far as SI working on a kayak, this was my first time out with it. Found a boat on the lake by my house I never knew was there.

[casts_by_fly]

11 hours ago, Koz said:

My opinion on sidescan for kayaks is you need to consider the size of the body of water you're fishing, how much structure you know is already out there, and how much patience you have to spend a lot of time out there marking structure. You might be that guy that has the patience to do that. I'm not that guy, although I keep telling myself one of these days I'm going to spend hours scanning and marking. Maybe I need to leave my fishing rods behind that day.

 

I have a trolling motor Kayak that does 4 mph with no effort from me, so maybe a little easier to graph and mark.  I typically use this time of year to explore and graph lakes.  The grass isn't grown up yet (we get a lot of grass) so you can see all of the bottom imperfections easily.  The fish are also not quite warmed up yet (though they are moving up now) so the fishing is a bit slower.  After you get the initial itch out of the way of fishing a new place or getting out for the day, I'll take some time to ride around the new lake and autochart.  I'll mark a few waypoints for future reference.  If its a small lake like the last one I'll just chart the whole place and be done with it.  I think it took a half hour to do 10 acres pretty thoroughly.  I also chart from the time I launch until I pull back in.  Then even while you're fishing its recording.  Now that's only depth and bottom hardness/vegetation but you're at least capturing the data with no added effort.

 

I agree a bit on the sidescan arguments above.  Its helpful in some places, others not so much.  Less than 10' and the range is a bit limited (to maybe 60'), but that's helpful for finding stumps and rockpiles as you go down a bank that you wouldn't otherwise be able to see.  One particular lake I fish has a 1 mi shoreline that is 4' at the shore and 6' 200 yards from shore.  There is a lot of mud bottom but there are a lot of old brush piles and trees that have floated in and sunk.  You'd have to go right over them with downscan, but with side scan you can cover a bit more area on the graph while you're blind casting around.  10-20' deep is the sweet spot for me.  Plenty of range and resolution but also fishable.  Deeper than 30' and I'm probably not fishing it anyway so I swap to 2D/downscan/GPS 3-way split to mark any interesting things.

 

[dickenscpa]

I used the old cheap monochromatic cheapie that came on my boat up until Aug 2019. I sprung to buy the Garmin Striker 4 to put up on the front of the boat and mounted the transducer on my trolling motor. With my eyes the 4" screen was a bit rough because I always stood on the front deck. However it being in color REALLY helped me start learning how these things work.

 

I moved to a kayak in Sept 2019 and I bought the Garmin Striker 5 with downscan. Sitting in the kayak and having the screen fairly close helped a ton. I upgraded to the 9" so I had room to run three things at a time and actually see and I wanted sidescan. I usually run sidescan all across the top and bottom left is map and bottom right is downscan. I have a Hobie PA and to be honest 9" is about the biggest screen I can go with and it not be in my way.

 

I never sold the 5" Garmin, I couldn't have sold it for enough to even fool with, but if I fish a tournament on a body of water I'm not familiar with I'll put it on the kayak and run map only on it and use the 9" for side and downscan only. When I fish a familiar waters though I take it off, just in my way.

 

When I do hook up the 5", the 9" and 5" share waypoints and maps immediately so no loss there. I didn't go with the 93uvh whatever because the Striker series are EXTREMELY user friendly and a good pic, plus the likelyhood of me adding Panoptix was pretty much slim to none. My best friend put a $1500 Lowrance on his Hobie and he doesn't even charge the battery or put it on his boat anymore. The setup befuzzled both of us and we couldn't figure it out. The Strikers have really good pic and you can literally hook it up and use the canned defaults and be just fine.

[dickenscpa]

On 4/21/2022 at 9:11 AM, casts_by_fly said:

 

I have a trolling motor Kayak that does 4 mph with no effort from me, so maybe a little easier to graph and mark.  I typically use this time of year to explore and graph lakes.  The grass isn't grown up yet (we get a lot of grass) so you can see all of the bottom imperfections easily.  The fish are also not quite warmed up yet (though they are moving up now) so the fishing is a bit slower.  After you get the initial itch out of the way of fishing a new place or getting out for the day, I'll take some time to ride around the new lake and autochart.  I'll mark a few waypoints for future reference.  If its a small lake like the last one I'll just chart the whole place and be done with it.  I think it took a half hour to do 10 acres pretty thoroughly.  I also chart from the time I launch until I pull back in.  Then even while you're fishing its recording.  Now that's only depth and bottom hardness/vegetation but you're at least capturing the data with no added effort.

 

I agree a bit on the sidescan arguments above.  Its helpful in some places, others not so much.  Less than 10' and the range is a bit limited (to maybe 60'), but that's helpful for finding stumps and rockpiles as you go down a bank that you wouldn't otherwise be able to see.  One particular lake I fish has a 1 mi shoreline that is 4' at the shore and 6' 200 yards from shore.  There is a lot of mud bottom but there are a lot of old brush piles and trees that have floated in and sunk.  You'd have to go right over them with downscan, but with side scan you can cover a bit more area on the graph while you're blind casting around.  10-20' deep is the sweet spot for me.  Plenty of range and resolution but also fishable.  Deeper than 30' and I'm probably not fishing it anyway so I swap to 2D/downscan/GPS 3-way split to mark any interesting things.

 

Being 100% transparent when it comes to sidescan I just wanted it because I wanted it. I wasn't good enough to use it to it's fullest and although I've gotten better with it and learned more I am FAR from an expert with it or even really super efficient.

 

However, one tournament in 2021 I was skunking the place up in a one day Saturday tournament and hadn't had sidescan for very long. I was cruising down a bank about 10-15' off the bank and I'd cruised down this way a 1000 times at least. 10' is about as close as I can get due to structure, limbs, overhang, etc. First day passing with sidescan I saw a car tire about 2-3' off the bank and about 2-3' deep. I didn't see any "white rice" specs to know fish were there but figured a good place for fish to be. I caught 5 off that tire and three were really good fish. I didn't win but went from skunkville to 8th place and got a $50 gift certificate for a $35 entry fee. LOL!

[Koz]

I fished some new areas last weekend and made a point of running my sidescan, namely to confirm the places I fished before were barren wastelands devoid of structure and that my sidescan was actually working properly.

 

The good news is that I could in fact see structure in these areas. The bad news is that it's still hard to make out potential fish on that 5" screen. It might be time for an upgrade.

[casts_by_fly]

13 hours ago, Koz said:

I fished some new areas last weekend and made a point of running my sidescan, namely to confirm the places I fished before were barren wastelands devoid of structure and that my sidescan was actually working properly.

 

The good news is that I could in fact see structure in these areas. The bad news is that it's still hard to make out potential fish on that 5" screen. It might be time for an upgrade.

unless they are in the water column portion of the picture (I.e. you just went over top of them and the bright dots show against the black water column) it can be hard to pick out fish in cover on side scan. On a hard, smooth bottom you can see the darker shadows and on a soft smooth bottom the fish show up as brighter specks.  In cover though with a mix of light and dark spots, it is hard to separate fish from cover. Just know they are there and fish it. 

[dickenscpa]

I watched a video just last week that absolutely open my eyes to sidescan and made a ton of difference, it may have been Intuitive Angler or something like that. I would see a stump sticking barely above the water out in the distance and wondered why it didn't show up on sidescan.

 

Apparently say you're in 5' deep water. That black water column is what's straight down from your transducer. Sure enough if I'm in 5' deep water, the black is 5' left and 5' right. When I go deeper or shallower that black curves and gets wider or narrower. I'm a shallow water guy so I have my range set at 20' to get a better picture.

 

So at 20' range if I'm in 5' water I'm seeing 15' on each side. That had completely flown over my head. So that's why I didn't see a stump at 18' for example.

 

The other thing I noticed is depending on which I looked at first between side and down - one would be crystal clear and the second one blown out. I could pull up only down or only side and they'd be beautiful. Both and one was murky. I had both set on the highest frequency. He said put one on the higher and one on the lower.

 

One frequency gives more range but a slightly less detailed pic. The other gives less range but a better pic. Mismatch them and both are clear. So since I'm mostly a shallow water guy I put the down on the lower frequency and side on the higher.

 

For most of you this is probably fishfinder 101 and you're thinking, uh yeah dummy. But I was a foul ball in tall weeds. I have an 8' Power Pole I put blue painter's tape in 1' increments to measure general distance left and right plus set my keel offset to know exact depth and he was right - at least for my unit.

[casts_by_fly]

9 hours ago, dickenscpa said:

I watched a video just last week that absolutely open my eyes to sidescan and made a ton of difference, it may have been Intuitive Angler or something like that. I would see a stump sticking barely above the water out in the distance and wondered why it didn't show up on sidescan.

 

Apparently say you're in 5' deep water. That black water column is what's straight down from your transducer. Sure enough if I'm in 5' deep water, the black is 5' left and 5' right. When I go deeper or shallower that black curves and gets wider or narrower. I'm a shallow water guy so I have my range set at 20' to get a better picture.

 

So at 20' range if I'm in 5' water I'm seeing 15' on each side. That had completely flown over my head. So that's why I didn't see a stump at 18' for example.

 

The other thing I noticed is depending on which I looked at first between side and down - one would be crystal clear and the second one blown out. I could pull up only down or only side and they'd be beautiful. Both and one was murky. I had both set on the highest frequency. He said put one on the higher and one on the lower.

 

One frequency gives more range but a slightly less detailed pic. The other gives less range but a better pic. Mismatch them and both are clear. So since I'm mostly a shallow water guy I put the down on the lower frequency and side on the higher.

 

For most of you this is probably fishfinder 101 and you're thinking, uh yeah dummy. But I was a foul ball in tall weeds. I have an 8' Power Pole I put blue painter's tape in 1' increments to measure general distance left and right plus set my keel offset to know exact depth and he was right - at least for my unit.

 

thats a lot of good insight. My helix 7 uses the same pings to generate the side and down images and then builds them in the head unit. Bigger humminbirds have dedicated side and down images.  Other units with long transducers will be the same. The benefit of dedicated is a cleaner image. I’ve not heard the advice about different frequencies (I’d assume the unit should time the pings to eliminate that). 
 

the distance info is great though. Here is an example showing down and side of the same dropoff. if you look through the grass you can see the harder bottom drop out and the corresponding widening of the dark water column.  If I’m fishing a lake with a lot of changes in depth, I’ll leave it in auto width. If I’m doing something specific like charting or trying to fish a specific area I’ll dial down to a specific distance to give as much resolution on the screen as I can. 

 

The other thing to remember is the size of the thing that’s there. If you’re looking at docks with 3” poles going down into the water, you’re not going to pick up much of that on side scan, no matter how big the floating pontoons are. Steel barge piers and concrete dock/bridge supports are great ways to learn side scan. Set it up, make a pass, see what you get. Change a setting, make a pass, see what you get.  The concrete isn’t moving and you’ll get a hard, clear image. Bonus- fish hang out near them so never know what you find. 
 

 

 

[HookInMouth]

I put a Garmin Echomap UHD 7" on my SS127 last year. No complaints. Side scan works well paddling as slow as I am.