Looking to build the lightest spinning rod possible

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

2 hours ago, MickD said:

I always  have a line passed through the guides so if one falls off the blank it will be held by the line (

This is a GREAT tip, I dropped one when I was filing the guide feet and it took an hour to find it in the carpet. I'm putting a cardboard floor down to keep from losing stuff. These micros are TINY. 

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

4 hours ago, MickD said:

I always  have a line passed through the guides so if one falls off the blank it will be held by the line (

This is a GREAT tip, I dropped one when I was filing the guide feet and it took an hour to find it in the carpet. I'm putting a cardboard floor down to keep from losing stuff. These micros are TINY. 

 How do I go about posting pictures?

 

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

 How do I go about posting pictures?

 

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

First attempt to wrap a guide, definitely not perfect but better than what I anticipated. What do you guys think? I'm going to head to the river for a while to try and catch something. Be back later on. ??

[MickD]

4 hours ago, SkinnyWaterBasser said:

First attempt to wrap a guide, definitely not perfect but better than what I anticipated. What do you guys think? I'm going to head to the river for a while to try and catch something. Be back later on. ??

You don't need that much wrap outside the guide.  A few wraps to get solidly started before climbing the guide foot is all that is required.  On the first couple guides it's not a big deal, but on the tip you want to keep the wraps as light as possible, and weight is a big deal out there on the rod.  Weight out there slows the recovery time of the rod.  

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

Three like this one this afternoon all on a BBB 3/16 swimbait head and a 3.8 keitech

4 minutes ago, MickD said:

A few wraps to get solidly started before climbing the guide foot is all that is required

The bare minimum to get the wrap started essentially? I'm also thinking that I need to file the guide feel a little more to cut the angle slightly. Back to the practice bench!!

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

39 minutes ago, MickD said:

A few wraps to get solidly started before climbing the guide foot is all that is required

This one cut the distance from start of thread to guide foot in half but I believe I can do better. I'm getting the feel for this pretty darn quick. 

[MikeK]

Where's your pull loop?

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

Here's one where I utilized the pull loop and finished the wrap. Am I high enough up on the guide or do I need to get farther into the bend of the guide?I'm going to continue to work with smaller guides now and see how those go? Looking ALMOST acceptable...

[Chris Catignani]

7 minutes ago, SkinnyWaterBasser said:

Am I high enough ...

That looks pretty good.

[Lead Head]

I agree, that's a good looking wrap. Look into locking wraps for the smaller guides. Some say they are unnecessary, and some swear by them. Look into how they work, and decide if you want to use them. 

[MickD]

That wrap looks fine to me.  You might narrow it up a little more, but it's close to ideal if not already there.  IMHO. 

 

I use the locking loop, 3 wraps around the base of the guide, for all single foot guides.  I have had a couple small guides pull out when the locking loops were not used.  Not very often, but has  happened.  It is so easy and fast, and unobtrusive, that I have chosen to use it all the time on single foot guides.  I don't always use the recommended blocking wraps after the locking loops and haven't had problems.  https://www.rodbuilding.org/library/forhan.html

 

Regarding filing the feet more, that too is a personal choice where some grind to get a really low slope and some, like I do, just give it a light brush across the foot with sandpaper to give a little bite to aid the thread climbing.  I don't like to take the finish off the guide feet unless it's necessary, and most of the time with Fuji guides, it is not necessary.  I've been accused of being almost "sacriligeous" of the "unwritten builders' code" by not grinding to a low slope.  Your rod, your process, your choice. Obviously, the rod will fish the same regardless of what you do. 

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

I definitely plan to practice with the locking loops loops for the single footers tonight after work, didn't practice any yesterday as I went out to find some prespawn largies yesterday ( with pretty good luck for a new body of water) everything I need to start the build should be here this week, so I'll be planning my layout and purchasing all of my final pieces, I spent a good deal of time yesterday with a spinning rod in my hand so I've been thinking about what I would change about it and the main things were length of grip and balance. My spinning rod is pretty light (sub 4 oz) and tip heavy probably due mostly to the guide selection and layout, the split grip on it I plan to shorten up by the length of the butt cap, approximately 2.75". The butt cap extends just past the bone on the inside of my elbow and I spent a lot of time thinking about not hooking it on my jacket so that has to change. Thank you guys for your critiques, and stay tuned!!!

[Lead Head]

Uh-oh...

If you are trying to build the lightest rod possible, you might not want to bring "tip-heavy" into the discussion. Especially if you are wanting short(ish) handles. I have found (and this is just me) that a light "tip-heavy" rod is a better tool than a heavier "balanced" rod. Obviously application matters (tip up presentations vs. tip down) but even when building bottom contact rods I accept that light builds (especially on longer rods) will be at least a little tip-heavy. 

You will figure out what you like best as you go, just keep in mind that it is very difficult to balance a long rod with a short handle. I'm no pro, but it usually requires adding weight to the handle and anytime you are adding weight, you are definitely not building the lightest rod possible. 

[MickD]

It's not rocket science.  The longer the rod , the heavier the rod forward of the hand, the harder it is to balance.  And the only way to balance, depending on the reel, it is to add weight behind the hand.  Choose your poison.  I just build the lightest that I can with the ergonomics primary in my priorities, and adding weight to the butt is something I just do not do.  

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

I'm not adding weight. I think I'll just mock up the reel seat and grips at various lengths just to see what feels best. See what level of weight forward is most acceptable, I guess I should have said without adding weight. Lol

[MickD]

10 hours ago, SkinnyWaterBasser said:

I'm not adding weight. I think I'll just mock up the reel seat and grips at various lengths just to see what feels best. See what level of weight forward is most acceptable, I guess I should have said without adding weight. Lol

A good plan, but I've not found it effective since with many longer rods the grip length has to be so long that the butt gets caught in my elbow when going from low to high or vice versa.  On one of my first builds on a premium blank I used a stock length rear grip on a spin rod and had this problem.  I ultimately had to cut about 1 1/2 inches off the butt to fix it.  OUCH!  

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

Well this whole project just got postponed indefinitely, NFC sent me a 721, not a 722 by my measurements. I'm asking to just return it for a refund vs waiting another month for possibly another wrong blank. Super SUPER annoyed right now.

[Lead Head]

What measurements make you think its wrong?  Was it labeled as a 722? Was the decal for a 722?

NFC isn't super consistent with tip and butt diameters. 

 

Either way, if you're not happy with it, sending it back is the correct choice. 

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

Lead Head, rather than sending it back I think I'll keep it and build something with it, it's going to be my first regardless so if I build something that's not perfect that's better suited for panfish duty I will feel better about it, it definitely seems like a very nice blank but their rating of 1/8-3/8 seems a bit overstated. I'll find a use for it, it's just not that all purpose finesse Bass blank I had hoped. I'll be ordering a point blank or an rx10 rainshadow this week ( or both ?) who knows, on the water testing could prove I'm all wrong. 

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

Oh, and they sent the blank without a decal. The tip measurement is definitely has me thrown off. It's advertised to fit a 4.5 tip top but a simple conversion to 64ths says that it's more likely to fit a 3.5. Alex did tell me that they vary, I just struggle to find almost a 20-25% difference in overall diameter as an acceptable tolerance, it seems like differences that big could dramatically change the response of the blank. 

 

Not really sure I want to roll the dice with customer service after I've had a couple emails with simple questions go unanswered since I've started down the path of building my own. 

[Chris Catignani]

2 hours ago, SkinnyWaterBasser said:

Not really sure I want to roll the dice with customer service after I've had a couple emails with simple questions go unanswered since I've started down the path of building my own. 

NFC has a forward facing message board: www.rodbuilding.org

Alex is active there and you could post your grievances there and may come away with some satisfaction. 

 

For example...here is a thread with some similar issues: Thread with issues and reply

 

[SkinnyWaterBasser]

Alex answered my email pretty quickly last night and was as helpful as he could be given the circumstances. I'm over my annoyance and just going to build it out, it's just going to be more of a niche rod. 

[WRB]

You can’t build a lighter weight rod then over the counter Phenix Feather ML 7’ is 2.9 oz.

Tom

[MikeK]

I've enjoyed following this thread but buying a blank based on manufacturer ratings is a crap shoot.

 

Manufacturer blank weights are pretty accurate so getting the lightest blank is not that hard.  Action and power are all over the place and are way more important than weight for the ultimate use of the rod.  Unless you can handle a blank before buying (I'm about 7 miles from Mud Hole ?) you need to use something like CCS or maybe the Mud Hole Deflection chart to identify what you are looking for then poll other builders to get recommendations.