Fluorocarbon with good stretch

[Gera]

Hi!

I'm wondering what fluoro to use on my Medium/Fast setup for crankbaits. When I fish from the kayak with a limited rod selection this rig has multiple uses and I would like to compensate the fast action of the rod with line that has more stretch. All my other setups are braid to leader and this will be my first in a very very long time all fluorocarbon.  

 

I use abrazx and invizx on other setups as leader material. But I don't hold any Seaguar stock so if Sunline assassine is the best option I have no issues switching. I tend to like abrazx as it holds really good against toothy critters.

 

Thank you for your comments!

[roadwarrior]

the InvizX is the ticket for this application.  I would go with #10.

[FishTank]

Invizx would be my pick. But for the most stretch in FC, I would look at Trilene 100% FC and also Sunline Crank.  Both are very stretchy. 

[FryDog62]

I did a stretch test a few years back - and out of 20 lines, the fluorocarbon that stretched most was Berkley 100%, followed second by Invizx. 

[WRB]

Any testing that applies force over long time periods is misleading. Force over the application of fishing time is only in seconds, not minutes or hours. Stretch being used as elastic yield strength requires about 30% to 35% of the tensile strength. 

The bottom line is all plastics stretch that is why they are called plastic. Plastics yielding over time is called cold flow not elasticity.

simple test; fasten the end of the line to a infinite mass, the other end of 10’ of line to you digital fish scale and  pull using 1/3 the line pound test and hold 15 seconds. If the length stretches you will need to move back to apply the force.

Tom

PS, your Medium Heavy bass rod can only apply 4 lbs bent 90 degrees. 

[newapti5]

25 minutes ago, WRB said:

Any testing that applies force over long time periods is misleading. Force over the application of fishing time is only in seconds, not minutes or hours. Stretch being used as elastic yield strength requires about 30% to 35% of the tensile strength. 

The bottom line is all plastics stretch that is why they are called plastic. Plastics yielding over time is called cold flow not elasticity.

simple test; fasten the end of the line to a infinite mass, the other end of 10’ of line to you digital fish scale and  pull using 1/3 the line pound test and hold 15 seconds. If the length stretches you will need to move back to apply the force.

Tom

PS, your Medium Heavy bass rod can only apply 4 lbs bent 90 degrees. 

 

Plainly, material with elastic yield would return to original shape, like a metal spring;  material with plastic yield won't, like a stretched plastic bag. 

 

All yield in lines includes partial elastic yield and partial plastic yield, and plastic yield won't happen much until you pull hard on the line. Plastic yield is also related to how long of time you pull the line. 

 

To make things simple, let's say we only focus on elastic yield and assume all lines are elastic material, I'd say Invizx got my vote. 

[Fishingmickey]

Instead of going with fluorocarbon. If your wanting stretch/give and willing to switch, go to monofilament.  In my opinion nylon monofilament has much better stretch properties then fluoro.  If it is toothy protection then I agree with the others, stay with the Invizx/Abrazx.

FM

[WRB]

Abrasion resistance it’s hard to beat Maxima UG Copolymer, Big Game and Armillo Defier mono line. 

FC knot strength is less then mono and at the end of the day knot strength rules with everything else being equal.

Tom

[Gera]

Thank you everyone! its the first time I ever get a response so unanimous. it is good that is a line that I'm already familiar with although only as a leader material on my spinning gear. 

 

thanks!

[MickD]

It is my opinion that all FC's stretch a lot more than most fishermen think.  Go with the FC that fishes the best.  Stretch will take care of itself.

[Fishingmickey]

I'd like to add to MickD's post if I may, I agree also that all Fluorocarbon lines stretch. I also think that Fluoro stretch's differently then nylon monofilament. I feel that FC's stretches later pound for pound then mono does. By that I mean it takes more weight or pull to get them to stretch and that Fluoro doesn't recover the same or as well as mono does.  The above is mere speculation on my part based on forty years fishing experience with no data what so ever to back it up. 

Fishingmickey

[padon]

so let me ask this. if flouro stretches which we know it does, how does that affect the supposed sensitivity? i was under the impression that the lower stretch was what was supposed to make it more sensitive. maybe i misunderstood?

[J Francho]

12 minutes ago, padon said:

so let me ask this. if flouro stretches which we know it does, how does that affect the supposed sensitivity? i was under the impression that the lower stretch was what was supposed to make it more sensitive. maybe i misunderstood?

That would be true for tip watchers and taught line.  Fluorocarbon is dense and transmits vibrations that you feel better.  Surely you've felt your jig hit bottom while on a slack line? People that claim braid has ANY sensitivity (it doesn't) are tip watchers. 

[Gera]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

braid has ANY sensitivity (it doesn't) are tip watchers. 

Could you please elaborate on this statement?? As I mention before, I jumped from a zebco 33 with mono as a kid straight into a baitcaster with braid so I have no frame of reference on flouro line. I'm not a tip watcher by any means (I don't have the capacity to concentrate on something like that!!) and have always depended on feel to detect bites. 

Will the jump on sensibility from braid to fluoro will be that large?? 

[J Francho]

12 minutes ago, Gera said:

Will the jump on sensibility from braid to fluoro will be that large??

On slack line, yes.  I guarantee that you are not feeling fish take your jig on the fall,  I know because I've seen fish violently take my jig right in front of me.  The ONLY indication was some tiny bit of movement of the braid at the water's surface.  If I wasn't watching, I would have NEVER known it.  Use mono or fluoro, and you feel the tick.

[MN Fisher]

3 hours ago, padon said:

so let me ask this. if flouro stretches which we know it does, how does that affect the supposed sensitivity? i was under the impression that the lower stretch was what was supposed to make it more sensitive. maybe i misunderstood?

FC has higher overall stretch on average than Nylon - the difference it that it requires more force on the line to START the FC stretching...there's where the added sensitivity comes in.

[Team9nine]

1 hour ago, MN Fisher said:

FC has higher overall stretch on average than Nylon - the difference it that it requires more force on the line to START the FC stretching...there's where the added sensitivity comes in.

Since you brought this point up again, I’ll ask again, since no one was able to help answer this question last time…can you refer or link me to any objective data supporting this?
 

I ask because I have only found data to support this argument in line tests higher than most bass anglers ever use; around 50 pound and up. In the couple studies showing data for lighter pound test fluoro (<=40 lb.) there was essentially no difference between nylon and fluoro SS curves.
 

So far the only thing I’ve seen posted in support of this ‘stretches w/greater force’ argument is a quote off Berkley’s website, which is mostly worthless IMO. You would think as bad as the pros and line companies got dragged over the coals for their ‘fluoro is low stretch’ advertising hype for years, at least one company could provide data supporting this new line of reasoning if true.

 

Thanks

[padon]

4 hours ago, J Francho said:

That would be true for tip watchers and taught line.  Fluorocarbon is dense and transmits vibrations that you feel better.  Surely you've felt your jig hit bottom while on a slack line? People that claim braid has ANY sensitivity (it doesn't) are tip watchers. 

ok so its the higher density that gives more sensitivity. im just wondering if im paying$22 dollars a spool for line that is marginally better than line i could get for $8 a spool. guess the only way id know for sure is to sppol up identical outfits with each and fish them.

[WRB]

Until there is a validated test method and procedure everything becomes subjective. Tackle Tour several years ago now did a fairly comprehensive comparative evaluation of FC line during that time period. I don’t recall their testing protocol? 

when I was working and had access to a Instron machine that is very accurate and records all the data I tested several lines for my own curiosity. The most important factor test for stretch is rate of force being applied. For example applying a rate of force 1 lb per second yields a very different result then .25 lb per second. Applying a rate faster then 5 lbs per second starts to cross over into impact strength.

At 1 lb per second nearly all monofilament lines including Nylon, Copolymer and 100% FC stretch nearly the same at 33% lb test with equal diameter. Testing to failure the difference between FC and other monofilament was knot strength, the % of stretch varied greatly., FC averaged less at higher forces. Using a Palomar knot Seaguar and Sunline have same diameter per lb test and average 75%., SD Jam knot was close to 80%. Equal diameter Nylon and Copolymer lines averaged nearly 100% with Palomar and SD Jam knots at the same rate of pull being 1 lb per second.

No documentation just my lunch time evaluations to determine what line to and knots use.

Tom

PS, tested 8 to 12 lb test line that I was using.

Never tested braid.

[TnRiver46]

Too much thinking involved for this to be fishing 

 

this reminds me of when engineers redesign a perfectly good road and all of a sudden there’s a bunch of car crashes 

[J Francho]

1 hour ago, padon said:

ok so its the higher density that gives more sensitivity. im just wondering if im paying$22 dollars a spool for line that is marginally better than line i could get for $8 a spool. guess the only way id know for sure is to sppol up identical outfits with each and fish them.

It isn't about better or worse than other lines.  It's about application.  In other words, when is an impact wrench better than a hammer type of thing.  Braid works great in weeds and is awesome for hollow froggin', but is terrible for treble hook baits and has little resistance to abrasion.  I don't care for leaders, so I hardly ever use braid in clear water, and especially not for light line presentations.

[ATA]

If you like real stretched, Sunlike FC100 leader system is also to be consider.

[Mike L]

I’ve never been accused of being the smartest one in the room. 
All I know is what I know from having a line  in the water. 
 

All mono will stretch and cheap

 

All flouro will stretch but to a lesser degree while some of those will stretch comparatively…You get what you pay for. 

 

No braid will stretch. 

 

 

 

Mike

 

[WRB]

Every braid stretches just higher forces are required and % to yield vs ultimate strength is lower.

Knots are the weakest link and FC has the weakest knot strength of all of today’s popular fishing lines.  

Using FC tie knots carefully and re tie often.

Tom    

 

[Team9nine]

59 minutes ago, WRB said:

Every braid stretches just higher forces are required and % to yield vs ultimate strength is lower.

Knots are the weakest link and FC has the weakest knot strength of all of today’s popular fishing lines.  

Using FC tie knots carefully and re tie often.

Tom    

 

I’ll disagree on this point. Braid is the weakest by far - and it’s not even a close contest. It loses nearly half of it’s true (unknotted) tensile strength (40-55 percent) once a knot is introduced. Nylon and fluoros measured the same way generally run between 10-30 percent depending. It’s why braid seems so indestructible, because they have to rate it on the pkg at around half its true tensile strength.