Using snap swivels for convenience

[long island basser]

I use the Mustad fastach clip for “most” trebled lures,

and the swivel/clip version with my 110 whopper ploppers.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sphynx]

On 4/1/2022 at 12:16 PM, A-Jay said:

I have nothing against snaps.

Just find that I don't need them.

 

A-Jay

Oh my isn't that just about enough to bring a tear to the eye! They are even color coordinated lol

 

Far as the snaps...your tying a knot somewhere in all this, either to the bait/hook, or to the snap, and not regularly re-tying that knot is eventually going to get you broken off, I find that by tying directly to my baits I refresh my knots often enough it's not usually a problem.

[Bluebasser86]

We need to make baits look as natural as possible, but an A-rig is so effective it's banned from professional tournaments. Math checks out.

 

[Cgolf]

30 minutes ago, Bluebasser86 said:

We need to make baits look as natural as possible, but an A-rig is so effective it's banned from professional tournaments. Math checks out.

 

That should put the line shy debate to bed, and they all use snaps right? Never fished one due to WI laws so no clue how the work. Have caught fish on the yum double up with 2 plastics rigged, heavy wire and snaps on that one. 

[Bluebasser86]

1 minute ago, Cgolf said:

That should put the line shy debate to bed, and they all use snaps right? Never fished one due to WI laws so no clue how the work. Have caught fish on the yum double up with 2 plastics rigged, heavy wire and snaps on that one. 

They seem to work best in clear to stained water also. Not very effective in dirty water when a bass couldn't see all that mess coming through the water. 

[TNBankFishing]

On 4/2/2022 at 6:54 AM, Captain Phil said:

When I was guiding for a living, I frequently had customers show up at my boat with huge snap swivels tied on their line.  Often they had a plastic worm dangling off the swivel.  I was being paid to catch fish, so my guide trips frequently turned into knot tying lessons. Other times, anglers would have their reels spooled with hideous braided line so thick you could pull a boat with it.  I was being paid to catch fish, so I would give them one of my outfits to use. 

 

If you want to catch more bass, your job is to make your bait look as much like natural bass food as possible. Worms, amphibians, eels and aquatic creatures don't have metal clips on their heads.  They glide through the water effortlessly or root for food on the bottom.  The ultimate soft bait presentation is weightless. Nothing looks as natural in the water.  This is why a wacky rig is so deadly.  Heavy buoyant line keeps your lure from falling naturally, not to mention the visibility factor.   If you want to catch more bass, go finesse.  Big bass bite lures for reasons other than hunger, but that's another story altogether.

 

I am not on this forum to argue, disprove something or promote anything.  I have been fishing for bass for over 60 years.  Fifty of those years I have been fishing tournaments against some of the best fisherman of that time.  I learned from the best of the best and won my share of those tournaments.  I have never seen a bass tournament won by someone using a snap swivel to attach his/her bait.  I see no problem with using tiny clips if you must.

You don’t see a snap because they can carry 19 different crank bait rods on their deck if they so choose. The cost of their gear is negligible compared to the boat, travel, etc. For non professionals they have other priorities and zero sponsors. 
 

I hate seeing the absolutist mindset. When someone says using a snap is losing you fish I have an image of two guys standing together about to hit a round of golf. 
 

One turns to the other and let’s him know because he’s not wearing both driving gloves, and didn’t swap his cleats out to account for the slight dampness in the grass, and didn’t come out 3 days early to pre-golf he’s going to lose.
 

The man continues by explaining his irons have been updated in the last six months and the .25% increase in distance was worth the $100 dollar bump on each iron. He also invested in new lithium batteries for his golf cart so not only is it lighter but he can mention it each time both of you sit down. 

[roadwarrior]

Good luck with your snaps. I never use one.

 

                                                

[Captain Phil]

1 hour ago, TNBankFishing said:

I hate seeing the absolutist mindset. When someone says using a snap is losing you fish I have an image of two guys standing together about to hit a round of golf. 
 

One turns to the other and let’s him know because he’s not wearing both driving gloves, and didn’t swap his cleats out to account for the slight dampness in the grass, and didn’t come out 3 days early to pre-golf he’s going to lose.
 

The man continues by explaining his irons have been updated in the last six months and the .25% increase in distance was worth the $100 dollar bump on each iron. He also invested in new lithium batteries for his golf cart so not only is it lighter but he can mention it each time both of you sit down. 

 

Using a snap or swivel to attach fishing lures adds weight, affects balance and changes the action of the lure.   If lures worked better with attaching hardware, they would come with that hardware in the box.  For example, new Rattle Traps come with a split ring because that lure works better with one than without one.   If you can't tie knots due to a handicap, you are forced to deal with your limitations.  If you refuse to tie knots due to laziness or because it's not convenient, you should know you are going to catch less fish than if you used the proper knot.   If you don't care, do what you want.  

[tholmes]

I generally don't use snap swivels, but I do attach a swivel (no snap) on spoons, especially when fishing in current. I helps prevent the dreaded line twist.

 

Tom

[TNBankFishing]

40 minutes ago, Captain Phil said:

 

Using a snap or swivel to attach fishing lures adds weight, affects balance and changes the action of the lure.   If lures worked better with attaching hardware, they would come with that hardware in the box.  For example, new Rattle Traps come with a split ring because that lure works better with one than without one.   If you can't tie knots due to a handicap, you are forced to deal with your limitations.  If you refuse to tie knots due to laziness or because it's not convenient, you should know you are going to catch less fish than if you used the proper knot.   If you don't care, do what you want.  

It’s the same old argument against using braid because fish see it. If fish can see a snap they can obviously see that spinnerbaits isn’t 3 fish swimming together or the Berkeley flatworm isn’t really a minnow. They can’t see it, and it won’t make a difference in the number of fish you catch. 
 

There is zero imperial proof snaps catch less fish. There is just decades of indoctrination concerning “best practices”. Just because Bill Dance caughtem for half a century without snaps doesn’t mean yourself or the next angler won’t. 
 

Every company saves money where they can. Not including a snap when a cheaper split ring works well enough saves them .03 cents per lure. I’ve bought numerous JDM cranks that include a snap, does that mean they should only be used with one? Does that mean they are inferior to the Strike King deep diver because they have one in the package? Clearly no in both cases. 
 

A snaps weight has insignificant delta when compared to a split ring. For a 3/8th oz crank the milligram difference won’t matter. The only time I would agree adding a snap could cause a negative action to a bait is when the total bait is in the 1/64oz range. If I’m trout fishing in the Smokeys I won’t use a snap but that is a limited case.  
 

If you continue to do anything in life because “that’s the way have always done it” you’re missing out on your own innovation and enjoyment. Telling anyone they will be less successful in their hobby because they choose one viable option over another is gatekeeping. No one is the final authority on fishing, and taking any unmoving stance in a sport with yearly innovation just means you’ll be left behind. 

[PhishLI]

44 minutes ago, Captain Phil said:

Using a snap or swivel to attach fishing lures adds weight, affects balance and changes the action of the lure.

True.

44 minutes ago, Captain Phil said:

If lures worked better with attaching hardware, they would come with that hardware in the box. 

This argument assumes that a lure's out of the box action when tied direct is the right action, or its only action. Its intended action is a nebulous proposition due to the fact that the user can drastically change its presentation with rod position, winding speed, cadence, etc. Anglers do this everyday with baits when trying to find out how a fish wants a bait presented. The intended action of a bait is merely a suggestion. A light wire snap is inconsequential in the entire equation including being visually unappealing. Each and every lure has the entire or greater section of a much heavier hook, or hooks, exposed for fish to be turned off by.

 

I'm inclined to think, or I get the feeling, that some people believe that real fisherman should be able to tie knots period, and all their subsequent arguments for that position are simply tactics to make their case.

[GRiver]

I use speed clips once in a while, if I know I’m going to to be changing a lot of hard bait out

[Captain Phil]

The facts based on my experience show a lure catches more bass if it appears more natural.  Do you believe a knot appears more or less natural than a snap swivel?  

[PhishLI]

9 minutes ago, Captain Phil said:

Do you believe a knot appears more or less natural than a snap swivel?  

Do you believe two or three separate treble hooks hanging off a bait magically disappear underwater?

[Cgolf]

19 minutes ago, Captain Phil said:

The facts based on my experience show a lure catches more bass if it appears more natural.  Do you believe a knot appears more or less natural than a snap swivel?  

Yes, I think a 1/4 ounce or 3/16 ounce slider rigged soft bait that pivots on the snap and falls more vertical is more natural than that bait falling mostly horizontal that drifts away from the target. For me I get more bites. Also when fishing vertical structure I go with the snap and a spinning rod since a spinning reel lets the line off the spool more freely. During frontal conditions if the bait pendulums away from the cover the fish won’t move to get it. This has worked for me for years and I have dialed in a pretty good vertical cover system. 
 

Honestly though if someone has a system that works for them there is no reason to change. 

[the reel ess]

1 hour ago, Captain Phil said:

 

Using a snap or swivel to attach fishing lures adds weight, affects balance and changes the action of the lure.   If lures worked better with attaching hardware, they would come with that hardware in the box.  For example, new Rattle Traps come with a split ring because that lure works better with one than without one.   If you can't tie knots due to a handicap, you are forced to deal with your limitations.  If you refuse to tie knots due to laziness or because it's not convenient, you should know you are going to catch less fish than if you used the proper knot.   If you don't care, do what you want.  

I get your point. But every snap is tied with a knot. It's not laziness, it's convenience. I use small Tactical Angler clips and they were recommended to me by a professional guide. So not even all guides think the same. The same guy also used braid on every rod with only a very short, heavy mono leader for topwaters to keep the line out of the hooks. He explained that he fished too often to be losing an expensive bait every other outing.

 

That said, I never use an entire swivel with any bait, except for maybe an inline spinner.

[Captain Phil]

I don't know many anglers who use snaps to attach their baits when bass fishing.  I believe if you asked most bass tournament professionals, they would say they don't.   The only time I use a swivel is when Carolina rig fishing and the swivel is not on the lure.   In offshore salt water fishing we use heavy duty ball bearing swivels to attach leaders.  Our leaders are often 10 feet or more in length with a hook tied or crimped to the end.  The swivel is attached with a double Bimini Twist knot, one of the more complicated knots to tie.   I use this knot to attach lures when fishing for Bonefish in clear water because I want every edge I can get.  Often the difference between winning and coming in second is in the small details.  

[Bdnoble84]

On 4/1/2022 at 4:46 PM, Bluebasser86 said:

Lure manufacturers add split rings, I remove them and use a small snap instead. Never put them on a scale but I'll bet the weight in almost identical. They still allow the freedom of movement that the split rings do, plus I don't have to worry about tying in the wrong spot of the split ring.  

 

They allow me to rotate through baits on productive spots and I can say with 100% certainty I catch more fish because I use them. It's not about being lazy, it's about being efficient. If I fish a spot I feel has fish and it doesn't produce, I can quickly switch to a different bait to make a few more cast to see if they'll react to something different. I know without a doubt that I wouldn't have caught one of my 3 biggest fish last year if I hadn't been using a snap because I swapped to a deeper runner in a different color in a few colors and caught her. Never would have made that change for just a few cast if I was retying with cold hands. 

Having made hardbaits. A small snap adds 1/4 of a gram, maybe. It really depends on the bait whether affects balance or not. I ve made small jb’s that were already very close to neutral buoyancy and a small snap was enough to make them slow sink. Or it can change the pitch of the bait which is some cases can alter action and diving depth.

[Bdnoble84]

I dont think there is a right or wrong answer here. Every moment fishing presents new variables that increase or decrease the odds to catch fishing. It may or may not matter. Use your best intuition. If the fish are active and aggressive. Probably wont matter. Slow and sluggish, it may??? Or who know. Maybe they just thing that little black thing is something hanging out of a fishes mouth

[QED]

1 hour ago, Bdnoble84 said:

Having made hardbaits. A small snap adds 1/4 of a gram, maybe. It really depends on the bait whether affects balance or not. I ve made small jb’s that were already very close to neutral buoyancy and a small snap was enough to make them slow sink. Or it can change the pitch of the bait which is some cases can alter action and diving depth.

 

I fish light and very light crankbaits.  I pulled the split rings [permanently] and weighed them on my powder scale which has very high resolution.  0 and 00 vmc duolock snaps [NOT snap swivels] weigh less.  Don't know where you are getting your data from.

[Bluebasser86]

2 hours ago, Bdnoble84 said:

Having made hardbaits. A small snap adds 1/4 of a gram, maybe. It really depends on the bait whether affects balance or not. I ve made small jb’s that were already very close to neutral buoyancy and a small snap was enough to make them slow sink. Or it can change the pitch of the bait which is some cases can alter action and diving depth.

So what's the weight difference if I remove the factory split ring and add a snap instead? 

[QED]

1 hour ago, Bluebasser86 said:

So what's the weight difference if I remove the factory split ring and add a snap instead? 

 

Several grains (not grams). But definitely lighter and if you remove the split ring and use the snap, there is no meaningful downside.  Grains are an uncommon unit of measure but are used almost exclusively in gunpowder measurements because you really don't want to get that wrong...

[Bdnoble84]

3 hours ago, QED said:

 

I fish light and very light crankbaits.  I pulled the split rings [permanently] and weighed them on my powder scale which has very high resolution.  0 and 00 vmc duolock snaps [NOT snap swivels] weigh less.  Don't know where you are getting your data from.

Im talking like size 2 or 3 ec snaps. .25 g might actually be high. Just ballparking from what i remember.

7 minutes ago, QED said:

 

Several grains (not grams). But definitely lighter and if you remove the split ring and use the snap, there is no meaningful downside.  Grains are an uncommon unit of measure but are used almost exclusively in gunpowder measurements because you really don't want to get that wrong...

430 grains equals 1oz. 28.34 grams equals 1 oz.