Why Magnetic Braking System Than Centrifugal Braking On BFS reel?

[ghost]

I've noticed that its magnetic braking from Shimano, Daiwa and Abu Garcia; even Kasking is using magnetic than centrifugal. Why is that?

[EzyEric]

I don't know many details about those specific reels but my guess is with lures this light the start of the cast / spin up needs to be extremely free.  Since the centrifugal ones can activate almost immediately they could easily kill the inertia since the lure is so light.

[PhishLI]

Centrifugal brakes require rpm and force for the brake pads to fly into the friction surface. That's not the type of energy you want to put into casting a 1-3 gram lure. In addition they turn off quickly, which is undesirable. Also, centrifugal brakes add extra weight to the spool as that's where the brake blocks and the hardware that secures them are mounted. It's not impossible to cast ultra light lures with a centrifugal system, but it is more difficult and the sweet spot is narrower than linear magnetic brakes.

 

Linear mag brake's oppositional field remains in play through the majority of the cast and allows for the lightest spool possible. The naked spool itself is part of the magnetic system. Those assets in combination allow for a controlled spool that will track extremely light lures better throughout the cast.

[Deleted account]

11 hours ago, PhishLI said:

 That's not the type of energy you want to put into casting a 1-3 gram lure.

Patient: "Doctor, I want to cast 1-3 gram lures with a baitcaster"

Doctor: "Are you related to the guy with the spinnerbait and the snap?"...

[Tatulatard]

10 minutes ago, Deleted account said:

Patient: "Doctor, I want to cast 1-3 gram lures with a baitcaster"

Doctor: "Are you related to the guy with the spinnerbait and the snap?"...

People do it all the time and they prefer the accuracy over spinning gear when creek fishing.  

[Deleted account]

16 minutes ago, Tatulatard said:

People do it all the time and they prefer the accuracy over spinning gear when creek fishing.  

You do you.

[Tatulatard]

11 minutes ago, Deleted account said:

You do you.

I don't have anything capable of that light a weight or even any creeks to fish.  I'm more of a 1/8 oz on the low side kind of guy.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Personally I don’t get the accuracy claims of bait casting vs spinning. I don’t have any problem hitting targets with my spinning tackle. If you’re casting a super light bait, why would you prefer a brake system that exerts constant affect over one that “shuts off” (which is over stated)? I can tune a centrifugal brake reel to startup and spin noticeably better than mag brake reels. It’s all opinion and personal preference act to end of the day. 

[Tatulatard]

Just now, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Personally I don’t get the accuracy claims of bait casting vs spinning. I don’t have any problem hitting targets with my spinning tackle. If you’re casting a super light bait, why would you prefer a brake system that exerts constant affect over one that “shuts off” (which is over stated)? I can tune a centrifugal brake reel to startup and spin noticeably better than mag brake reels. It’s all opinion and personal preference act to end of the day. 

There must be something to the magnetic brake for the tiny 1-3 gram stuff.  Spools capable of casting that stuff for Shimanos were/are sold with magnetic conversions.  The Aldebaran bfs reels are also magnetic.  The Daiwa stuff also is either magnetic or sv type brake for their bfs and "stream" reels over magforceZ.  The spools with the centrifugal or daiwa brakes with springs need a minimum speed to effectively brake and these tiny baits struggle with that I guess.  I've read up on this alot lurking the tackle tour forums and everyone that has gone down this route has experienced the same thing

 

1. They all claim that they gain better accuracy and bait placement with trout magnets when they can apply gently thumb pressure to a spinning spool 

 

2. That magnetic brakes and "fixed rotor" type spools are better for the trout magnets but the sv type and centrifugal are better for heavier bfs baits and you get more distance.

 

After reading up on all this I decided to go with normal bass finesse casting reels since the lightest I go is an 1/8 oz hard bait on occasion.

[PhishLI]

38 minutes ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

If you’re casting a super light bait, why would you prefer a brake system that exerts constant affect over one that “shuts off”

Mag brakes actually don't exert a constant effect though. Depending on where the brakes are adjusted there's practically no oppositional force at startup whereas centrifugal brakes are "on" fast. Increased rotation of the the non-ferrous spool in proximity to the magnets is where those forces are gradual, then greatest, then gradual. It's not exactly linear. During the second 3rd of the ascent of the cast, and especially past the middle, is where properly adjusted mag brakes "kick in" and super light lures work well. Thumbing the spool during any part of the cast besides the end of it will kill an ultra light lure's flight instantly. Mag brakes can be tuned to track the lure through most of the cast without thumbing.

 

Shimano uses friction brakes in every standard non-DC bait caster they make, but they choose to use their slightly dynamic FTB linear mag brakes in their BFS reels. I'll assume they'd use centrifugal brakes on their true BFS reels if they felt they could get away with it, but they don't in this case.

1 hour ago, Deleted account said:

"Are you related to the guy with the spinnerbait and the snap?"...

I am the ClipMan coocoocachoo

[WRB]

Just to put things into perspective 1 gram = 1/32 oz, 3 grams =3/32 oz. When you all think a 1/10 oz Ned jig weighs 1/10 oz you are wrong, that doesn’t include the hook. Add whatever you are using as a Ned worm about 3/32 oz you have a 1/4 oz total weight lure. A 1/16 oz crappie jig without a trailer is what you all are trying to cast using BFS, a decent crappie is within this combo but a 3 lb bass near cover or brush is going to be a hand full.

Just saying,

Tom

 

[bulldog1935]

again, the answer is in this post

There is no start-up jerk casting light lures, so a centrifugal brake is never needed. 

The only backlash concern is mid-cast wind backlash, where mag brake shines. 

Tuning reels, setting up brakes, building reels, I've noticed centrifugal brakes cost distance when casting light lures. 

Centrifugal just gets in the way on BFS reels, adding rotating mass and physical-contact drag on a spool you're hoping that a gram or two will keep pulling past the gravity hump - 

- think finesse. (No, centrifugal doesn't "turn off" during cast - the brake load relaxes, but the friction is always there.)

(Dual brakes are worse for adding spool mass, and I sold both my centrifugal brake Lew's when I discovered Super Duty G cast farther and more reliably)

 

On this 1500C, with Avail spool, the normal, removable centrifugal brake has been replaced by a blank spacer, and even the Avail internal mag brake that will pop into either side of the reel frame, only needed two out of six magnets. 

 

The lightest- and farthest-casting Daiwa aftermarket spool, RoroX, eliminates the MagForce/SV moving rotor complication, turning the Daiwa brake into linear mag. 

 

The only time you need centrifugal or equivalent MagForce/SV (nonlinear mag) is at spool start up when throwing heavy weights. 

 

Set your mag brakes to eliminate mid-cast backlash with the lightest thing you're going to throw.  The only time you will need more mag is casting into the wind. 

[WRB]

I have said this several times my bass fishing mentor was Jason Lucas. Read his 60’s edition of Lucas on Bass, the original BFS angler.

My 1st bait casting reel was Langley Target in 1955. The Target was a freelance spool bait casing reel with light weight aluminum drilled spool 50 yard line capacity, the aluminum  weights 4 oz! The rod was 5’6” Connolin Feather light in today’s rating a 3 power moderate action. 

I tied the 10 lb braid to the spools holes tp revenge casting all the off the spool.casting 3/8 oz Baby Bass Oren’s lure 50 yards with ease and zero brakes, only my thumb.

I have always light line tackle but the rods with enough power to control any bass I caught.

BSF isn’t new it’s just a new acronym that has has a good following to enjoy your fishing.

Tom

[QED]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

I have said this several times my bass fishing mentor was Jason Lucas. Read his 60’s edition of Lucas on Bass, the original BFS angler.

[stuff deleted]

Thank you for this book reference.  Just ordered it from Amazon.  It pre-dates me by quite a bit but am always interested in seeing how the sport has evolved.

[bulldog1935]

I'll say it again.  If Shimano had access to Daiwa's MagForce/SV patents, we wouldn't see centrifugal brakes at all. 

 

There's also a mistaken belief on this forum that what makes BFS is somehow a fad. 

What makes BFS is going to become the Norm in baitcasters - we already see the trend in Okuma Hakai, before that ZPI Alcance, and Shimano's use of magnesium baitcast spools. 

This is fast becoming the normal braid set-up for an MH baitcaster. 

 

[desmobob]

Lighter spools are essential for BFS but lighter spools are better for all bait casters, right?  It's a good trend.

[Jigfishn10]

1 hour ago, bulldog1935 said:

I'll say it again.  If Shimano had access to Daiwa's MagForce/SV patents, we wouldn't see centrifugal brakes at all. 

Hey buddy, a while back you introduced me to a rod, I believe it was a BC rod made from like a 5 wt fly rod, would a "whippy" rod like that work with a BFS BC? 

 

Forgive my ignorance, I'm mostly salt now, but have been getting intrigued by these threads.

 

Thanks, man.  

[bulldog1935]

@Jigfishn10

This is definitely the way Japanese long salt finesse is heading - I wouldn't call progressive taper necessarily whippy, but 8'2" Yamaga blanks, 2-20-g range, is pretty flexy in the tip, long fast mid, stout butt. 

I wouldn't fish this rod from a kayak - it's a shore light game rod, perfect for docks and wading - you wouldn't want to fight a slot fish going under the boat. 

The biggest advantage this has is casting light plugs - they never foul, while casting on comparable spinning tackle, light plugs foul more often than not. 

 

Valleyhill makes a similar range of rods through MH - their bass BFS all range rods are definitely Fast tip, and 6'7". 

 

 

Here are two Valleyhill salt BFS rods, 7'2" and 7'6"

https://fishingshop.kiwi/VALLEY-HILL-Cyphlist-HRX-Pro-Spec-Hard-Rock-Edition-CPRC-72LS-RFF/ - 1/16 to 3/8 oz

https://fishingshop.kiwi/VALLEY-HILL-Cyphlist-HRX-Pro-Spec-Hard-Rock-Editione-CPRC-76MMS-RFF/ - 1/8 to 1/2 oz

These are targeted for boat fishing. 

 

Note the bait versions have only been out a few years, but the Japanese have been fishing shore light game with rods like this for centuries. 

 

[Tatulatard]

Major Craft has a line of those really long finesse casting rods too for some Japanese salt water fishing.  What US species are those rods work out for?  

[bulldog1935]

@Tatulatard

I know Major Craft makes spinning salt finesse (rockfish) rods - didn't know they made bait. 

Here's our normal use

In addition to winter dock fishing, we use them for spring tide passes - targeting speckled trout, snook, and sight-fishing redfish. 

I have a shot coming this weekend. 

 

My buddy ended his first Major Craft UL rockfish (after 3 hard years) on the trip above (the solid tip split).  He replaced with an upgrade to Yamaga Blanks BCIII-711

I still have two old Takamiya rockfish rods that have been at this 12+ years.

[the reel ess]

On 4/1/2022 at 12:13 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Personally I don’t get the accuracy claims of bait casting vs spinning. I don’t have any problem hitting targets with my spinning tackle. 

I dang sure get it as I'm getting older. Depth perception is getting worse. With the BC gear, I can easily apply the thumb as required to keep the bait out of the trees. That's not as easy for me with spinning. Thus, I usually use the spinning gear for more open water presentations.

[king fisher]

1 hour ago, the reel ess said:

I dang sure get it as I'm getting older. Depth perception is getting worse. With the BC gear, I can easily apply the thumb as required to keep the bait out of the trees. That's not as easy for me with spinning. Thus, I usually use the spinning gear for more open water presentations.

I have no problem casting into the trees equally well with spinning or casting reels.  

[the reel ess]

1 minute ago, king fisher said:

I have no problem casting into the trees equally well with spinning or casting reels.  

I used to get put out with my dad because he was always in the trees. Now I am him. But, as my buddy always says, if you ain't in the trees every so often you ain't trying hard enough.

[ska4fun]

Linear magnetic braking systema are just as simple as efficient. The proportional nature (spool spin x braking force) of magnetic braking, based on the counter-EMF inducted the aluminium spool, gives us control over all the cast.

[ska4fun]

PS: Centrifugal braking only acts in the highest spinning, so in most cases you don't have any braking action in the end of the cast. Thats good for aerodynamic lures, like stickbait and pencils overall, who have a slower deceleration by wind resistance.