What happened to closed loop spinnerbaits?

[QED]

Context - I usually use duo-lock snaps for crankbaits and spinnerbaits, which allows me to change baits quickly.  The duo-locks are typically lighter than the split rings on crankbaits so the other side benefit is that you can get rid of the split rings and still retain excellent lure action.  But most spinnerbaits have migrated to R-bend construction which doesn't work well with snaps.  Was wondering if this is just a manufacturing economy measure or if there is some other benefit over the prior closed loop types?  BTW, Mann's still makes closed loop spinnerbaits as does Strike King in their smallest sizes.

[Deleted account]

36 minutes ago, QED said:

Context - I usually use duo-lock snaps for crankbaits and spinnerbaits, which allows me to change baits quickly.  The duo-locks are typically lighter than the split rings on crankbaits so the other side benefit is that you can get rid of the split rings and still retain excellent lure action.  But most spinnerbaits have migrated to R-bend construction which doesn't work well with snaps.  Was wondering if this is just a manufacturing economy measure or if there is some other benefit over the prior closed loop types?  BTW, Mann's still makes closed loop spinnerbaits as does Strike King in their smallest sizes.

 

Patient: "Doctor, my snap slides down my spinnerbait"

Doctor: "Have you considered golf? and not having children"...

[Jig Man]

I can’t answer your question but I can offer you a possible solution.  I have found the R wires to be fragile.  It only takes a few fish before the wire breaks.  I have come up with a way to prolong the life of my spinnerbaits and not change how they work.

 

 I either wrap braided line or floral wire around the R bend then seal it with shrink tubing.  I haven’t had a wire break since and can use a snap if I choose.

 

[Finessegenics]

Still a lot of brands which make closed loop spinnerbaits. I used to prefer them too because I’d be able to put a steel leader on them, to avoid have them bit off by pike. At one point I just said whatever and I now use an R bend without any leader. I haven’t lost many spinnerbaits to pike at all since then so I guess I’m just lucky. 
 

I think the R bend is simply just in style nowadays. I don’t see why else bait manufacturers have moved largely towards that. Maybe twisting the wire does take more time? A problem I had with closed eye is the line wrapping around it. I know a lot of people find that annoying. On the flip side, people also find that their line slipping down on R bends annoying. 

[Captain Phil]

If you are fishing around toothy fish or are handicapped or impaired in some way that prevents you from tying knots, you have no choice.  If not, you are hurting your productivity by using hardware snaps and leaders to attach artificial lures.  Anything that dampens vibration affects it's fish catching appeal.  If the lure comes with a split ring or clevis, use it.  If not, don't add one.  Thinner wire makes more vibration which equates to more fish.  Thicker wire vibrates less.  Closing the end of a spinnerbait has the same stiffening effect as thicker wire.   Anglers have noticed this over the years and manufacturers responded. 

 

Anything will catch bass sometime.  I fished with a fellow when I was young who caught bass with a piece of red rag.  Another made his own baits out of a table spoon.  I am not saying you can't catch bass with a snap or a leader.  What I am saying is you will catch more bass without those impairments. 

[LrgmouthShad]

I have always heard that open loop spinnerbaits vibrate more than closed loop spinnerbaits.

[michaelb]

I only use closed loops. I am glad to see there is a supposed reason for open loops though; i have never noticed a difference in catching fish or vibration. I use a leader and a snap because I use my pike rod and that has a leader tied on. Pike and bowfin can easily straighten open loops and leave you with pieces and parts. 
 

I like the strikeback spinnerbaits that have the swinging hook too. Not sure if that inceases vibration but it definitely helps catch and hold fish. 

[king fisher]

Most of the time I prefer close loop. Open loop does seem to run straighter at high speeds. For burner spinner baits I prefer the loop to be open.

[river-rat]

 

I've been making spinnerbaits for 50 years and I always use closed loops. I have a family member that worked in a large petrochemical plant as a machinist and specialized in vibration studies. He also made spinnerbaits and according to him, the closed loop actually has more vibration than the R bend. 

 

Not trying to start a controversy, but that is what I was told. 

[QED]

3 hours ago, Captain Phil said:

If you are fishing around toothy fish or are handicapped or impaired in some way that prevents you from tying knots, you have no choice.  If not, you are hurting your productivity by using hardware snaps and leaders to attach artificial lures.  Anything that dampens vibration affects it's fish catching appeal.  If the lure comes with a split ring or clevis, use it.  [stuff deleted] 

Using a small 0 or 00 snap is not functionally different from using a split ring in terms of degrees of freedom for the bait move as designed.  The distinction is just dogma.  Note that some chatterbaits include snaps by default.

[Bass Rutten]

21 minutes ago, riverat said:

 

I've been making spinnerbaits for 50 years and I always use closed loops. I have a family member that worked in a large petrochemical plant as a machinist and specialized in vibration studies. He also made spinnerbaits and according to him, the closed loop actually has more vibration than the R bend. 

 

Not trying to start a controversy, but that is what I was told. 

This is what I’ve always thought as well,

stiffer construction absorbs less vibration forcing the energy out into the water.

[the reel ess]

Megastrike's Roland Martin Big Bass Spinnerbait has a closed loop tie. That's because he fishes the land of 10+lb. fish. I like the golden shiner pattern.

18 hours ago, Bassjam2000 said:

This is what I’ve always thought as well,

stiffer construction absorbs less vibration forcing the energy out into the water.

I switched from War Eagle to the Megastrike Big Bass spinnerbait and have noticed no difference in bites. You can wear a War Eagle out without catching any fish. But they do catch. So do others.

 

 

[Sphynx]

Could be a cost thing, I'm not in manufacturing so I couldn't tell you what additional steps (if any) are involved in one method vs. The other outside of the fact that things we uninitiated folks often think seemingly stupid price/time factors are unimportant even though these often generate huge differences in a companies bottom line, but I could believe that the shape might affect how it planes through the water at a given speed...maybe one blows out and runs sideways at a lower speed or something. 

[Bird]

I direct tie Spinnerbaits because of a much bigger issue with those clips and snaps and that is...... during the fight.

On a big fish, those snaps will slide up to the blades and deform the Spinnerbait with excessive stretch.

AND worse yet is shearing the blades off and wave bye bye to fish.

Hense the reason I direct tie all Spinnerbaits.

 

Another point is, a Spinnerbait is a must in my arsenal and has a rod and reel dedicated to it so it never comes off. 

 

 

[Bass Rutten]

I went to the booyah coverts a while back, I wrap the bends with .20 wire, prevents sliding. 

[CM-fisher]

Up here in MN we get a lot of pike on spinnerbaits, so closed loop is the prevailing style. Northland tackle spinnerbaits have closed loop eyes if I'm not mistaken. I fish with both types and I don't really notice a difference

[LrgmouthShad]

1 hour ago, riverat said:

 

I've been making spinnerbaits for 50 years and I always use closed loops. I have a family member that worked in a large petrochemical plant as a machinist and specialized in vibration studies. He also made spinnerbaits and according to him, the closed loop actually has more vibration than the R bend. 

 

Not trying to start a controversy, but that is what I was told. 

Very interesting

[Captain Phil]

If you have confidence in "X", you will fish it more and you will catch more fish with "X".   You will then conclude "X" is the answer when "Y" might be better.  Sometimes old school techniques get lost in time.  A good example is the recent Harris Chain Elite Tournament where Buddy Gross sat on one spot with a Carolina Rig.  You could have had a truckload of Metanium Reels and Hybrid Hunters and he would have beat you with a cheap bag of worms.  If you want to catch more bass, enter a few local tournaments and see how you do.  You might learn something new or something old.  If you don't care if you catch more fish, that's OK too. ☺️

[Deephaven]

3 hours ago, riverat said:

 

I've been making spinnerbaits for 50 years and I always use closed loops. I have a family member that worked in a large petrochemical plant as a machinist and specialized in vibration studies. He also made spinnerbaits and according to him, the closed loop actually has more vibration than the R bend. 

 

Not trying to start a controversy, but that is what I was told. 

If it is the same diameter wire, the longer wire (ie without the loop) will have a lower vibration frequency and more amplitude at resonance.  Not all things are equal though so you can kiss that all out the window.  No reason for a study as it is rather simple mechanical behavior to predict.

[Bankbeater]

I use a split ring over the bend before I put the snap on.

[Munkin]

8 hours ago, Bassjam2000 said:

I went to the booyah coverts a while back, I wrap the bends with .20 wire, prevents sliding. 

 

This is what I recommend if you want to use snaps. Personally, I don't like twisted eyes  because the line gets caught in them. Now I don't fish for pike or accidentally catch them that often. Now a 3' Tiger Musky will destroy pretty much any bait.

 

Allen

[Basser2021]

13 hours ago, Captain Phil said:

If you are fishing around toothy fish or are handicapped or impaired in some way that prevents you from tying knots, you have no choice.  If not, you are hurting your productivity by using hardware snaps and leaders to attach artificial lures.  Anything that dampens vibration affects it's fish catching appeal.  If the lure comes with a split ring or clevis, use it.  If not, don't add one.  Thinner wire makes more vibration which equates to more fish.  Thicker wire vibrates less.  Closing the end of a spinnerbait has the same stiffening effect as thicker wire.   Anglers have noticed this over the years and manufacturers responded. 

 

Anything will catch bass sometime.  I fished with a fellow when I was young who caught bass with a piece of red rag.  Another made his own baits out of a table spoon.  I am not saying you can't catch bass with a snap or a leader.  What I am saying is you will catch more bass without those impairments. 

I would agree that I wouldn't use snaps or swivels on my spinnerbaits

I personally use Googan zingers that come with a rubber band to keep the knot from sliding

[gim]

8 hours ago, MN_Bassin24 said:

Up here in MN we get a lot of pike on spinnerbaits, so closed loop is the prevailing style. Northland tackle spinnerbaits have closed loop eyes if I'm not mistaken. I fish with both types and I don't really notice a difference

Yes that’s correct the Northland Reed Runner spinnerbait has a closed loop. The problem is that they are made with the cheapest components known to man which is why you can buy them at Fleet Farm for 3 bucks apiece. One slam by a pike and the frame on them is bent, and thus, ruined.

 

I primarily use Terminators (the discontinued titanium versions) and the durability is unmatched. They have an open loop but I don’t care. I primarily direct tie mine unless I am in pike infested waters. Then I use a steel or fluoro leader.

[steve-pierce]

I put a small piece of hose over the line tie to keep the snap or direct tie from sliding

 

i don’t understand the vibration VS wire size thing. Blades are never mentioned. Does a thick wire turn a big Colorado into a small willow?

[PhishLI]

17 hours ago, Jig Man said:

shrink tubing

I just use shrink tubing and poke a hole through it. I've never lost a bait once due to either the shrink tube or a VMC Touch-Lok snap failing. The wire isn't a bad idea though. Before I tried the shrink tube I used to wrap the R bend with 24G copper bell wire and solder it in place. Wrapped correctly the solder doesn't need to bond onto the bait's wire at all. It just locks the copper in position.