The Live Bait problem

[N Florida Mike]

3 minutes ago, DINK WHISPERER said:

I can't seem to catch a shiner under 8".

My home lake used to be full of big shiners, but not anymore. I once caught a 13.5 inch shiner in there.…

 

[Luke Barnes]

I want to go shiner fishing. Meaning I want to catch some shiners because its my goal to catch every species I possibly can. 

[DINK WHISPERER]

11 hours ago, N Florida Mike said:

My home lake used to be full of big shiners, but not anymore. I once caught a 13.5 inch shiner in there.…

 

We went out a while ago to catch some. This one is the smallest one we caught. 

[WRB]

You don’t think you have a live bait problem?

Florida State record LMB is 17.25 lbs!

Tom

[TnRiver46]

10 hours ago, Luke Barnes said:

I want to go shiner fishing. Meaning I want to catch some shiners because its my goal to catch every species I possibly can. 

You can catch them in creeks with fly rod or light tackle, it’s pretty fun. They bite repeatedly until you hook them 

19 minutes ago, WRB said:

You don’t think you have a live bait problem?

Florida State record LMB is 17.25 lbs!

Tom

There are a whole lot of variables that determine how large fish can grow, the bait on the end of a human being’s single rod and reel is not one of them 

[NoShoes]

26 minutes ago, WRB said:

You don’t think you have a live bait problem?

Florida State record LMB is 17.25 lbs!

Tom

Think any of it is due to the water temp getting too warm?  I’m in Georgia and it ain’t anything to have water temp approaching 90 degrees. 
 

Water temp might be driving metabolism too high to get much bigger 

[WRB]

13 hours ago, NoShoes said:

Think any of it is due to the water temp getting too warm?  I’m in Georgia and it ain’t anything to have water temp approaching 90 degrees. 
 

Water temp might be driving metabolism too high to get much bigger 

???What??? It’s just the opposite!

Tom

[Dwight Hottle]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

???What??? It’s just the opposite!

Tom

 

Shorter life spans. That's why lake Okeechobee & other southern parts of FL don't have as many DD's as northern FL. The south of FL is warmer than northern FL. 

[Captain Phil]

There was a time when Florida bass guides used live shiners exclusively. Catching bass with live shiners completely removes the angler from the equation. You could program a robot to set the hook and crank the reel when the float takes off.   The problem is novice anglers wait until the bass swallows the shiner to set the hook.  This kills fish.  When you remove big bedding females, the whole fishery suffers.  The cost and availability of wild shiners has changed that. 

 

If you wish to catch a trophy bass in Florida today, you must fish where fishing pressure is low.  There are private pits in Florida where giant bass are common.  Rodman grows giant bass because the hydrilla is so thick most bass never feel a hook.  Bass in our larger lakes don't have a chance to grow large.  I hate to say it, but Florida bass fishing should have tighter limits, closed seasons, no exemptions and catch photo and release. If it works for snook and redfish, it would work for bass. 

 

 

[WRB]

I tried for 25 years to close prime spawning areas from February 1st to May 1st to live bait fishing in our SoCal trophy bass lakes. The argument against closer was always “you can’t over harvest bass populations”.

This is true for the general bass population not the tiny giant bass population.

Tom

 

[Captain Phil]

I have been participating in bass tournaments since the late sixties. Back then, Florida had a ten bass per angler daily limit with no size limit.  Our bass club had a fish fry after every tournament.  I can remember cleaning piles of bass over a foot high.  Crazy as it seems, I once won an Okeechobee buddy tournament with a 67 pound stringer.  Later, Florida reduced the daily limit to five 15" fish per angler.  The State started issuing "tournament exemptions" which allowed them to override the limits. Getting an exemption is as easy as finding someone to sell you an extended car warranty.  On TV you can watch live bass being caught, so why drag potentially dead bass up on stage?  In the summer, if you visit the marina the day after a bass tournament, you will see dead bass floating around the docks.  This doesn't have to happen.  Everyone in America has a cell phone.  Catch a bass, take a photo and let it go where it was caught.  It works in salt water tournaments, why not bass?

 

Some Florida lakes have slot limits.  Florida is trying to increase the average size of bass caught.  10,000 people a day are moving here. Many are dragging their boats behind them. If this sounds like the grumblings of an old man, it's not.  Florida bass fishing can not stand the pressure of all these anglers.  I don't fish bedding bass.  I consider it unsportsmanlike and severely detrimental to the sport.  If our great grand kids are going to have a chance at a big bass, we should make ALL Florida bass fishing catch photo and immediate release where caught. 

[N Florida Mike]

On 4/15/2022 at 9:12 AM, NoShoes said:

I agree more fish at gut hooked on live bait all day. 
 

i also feel gut hook ups are very dependent on the bass temperament that day. I rarely but hook on my Texas rig, but one weekend I gut hooked a half dozen. Everyone was set on the hit, they just seemed to swallow the bait that day. Never happened again that. 

 For me , Super flukes gut hook way more fish than any other bait , including live bait. Gut hooking a fish isnt desirable, but it happens . 

[Luke Barnes]

2 hours ago, N Florida Mike said:

 For me , Super flukes gut hook way more fish than any other bait , including live bait. Gut hooking a fish isnt desirable, but it happens . 

One of the few times ive gut hooked a bass it was with a super fluke. The bass inhaled it and had it in its gullet so fast and I wasn't paying the most attention. That was one of three bass, that i know of, that I killed.  The others being on a shakey head for whatever reason. I literally stopped throwing the shakey head because of it but not did it catch fish!

2 hours ago, Captain Phil said:

I have been participating in bass tournaments since the late sixties. Back then, Florida had a ten bass per angler daily limit with no size limit.  Our bass club had a fish fry after every tournament.  I can remember cleaning piles of bass over a foot high.  Crazy as it seems, I once won an Okeechobee buddy tournament with a 67 pound stringer.  Later, Florida reduced the daily limit to five 15" fish per angler.  The State started issuing "tournament exemptions" which allowed them to override the limits. Getting an exemption is as easy as finding someone to sell you an extended car warranty.  On TV you can watch live bass being caught, so why drag potentially dead bass up on stage?  In the summer, if you visit the marina the day after a bass tournament, you will see dead bass floating around the docks.  This doesn't have to happen.  Everyone in America has a cell phone.  Catch a bass, take a photo and let it go where it was caught.  It works in salt water tournaments, why not bass?

 

Some Florida lakes have slot limits.  Florida is trying to increase the average size of bass caught.  10,000 people a day are moving here. Many are dragging their boats behind them. If this sounds like the grumblings of an old man, it's not.  Florida bass fishing can not stand the pressure of all these anglers.  I don't fish bedding bass.  I consider it unsportsmanlike and severely detrimental to the sport.  If our great grand kids are going to have a chance at a big bass, we should make ALL Florida bass fishing catch photo and immediate release where caught. 

This interests me so much. Ive combed the web for how bass are treated at tournaments. Not much bad about it put there because it would raise a huge stink among activists if the truth about every tournament was disclosed. 

[Captain Phil]

11 hours ago, Luke Barnes said:

This interests me so much. Ive combed the web for how bass are treated at tournaments. Not much bad about it put there because it would raise a huge stink among activists if the truth about every tournament was disclosed. 

 

Large organized bass tournaments are generally more aware of the problem.  Our bass club ran a tournament on the Harris Chain for years. We worked with the State game officials who provided us with special tanks filled with chemicals designed to help the bass recover from being handled. These were big bass tournaments with only one fish weighed per angler. All dead bass were disqualified. Later, we went to an hourly weigh in format to further reduce time in the live wells. I ran the stage in a few of these tournaments and they were very popular.  The biggest problem is small local club or community tournaments where preventing injury to bass is not a priority.  In the spring, the Chain has 3-6 of these every weekend.  Last year, I launched my boat the day after one of these tournaments and found dead bloated bass all over the marina.  This needs to be stopped.

 

Back in the day, tournaments needed to display bass on a stage in front of an audience.  That is no longer necessary.  When they pull bass out and hold them up, I think about the bass not the winner.   I have entered many offshore fishing tournaments. We don't drag sailfish or tarpon up on stage, why bass?   Why do we have tournaments where an angler wins with a limit of dinks?   If that's the definition of a champion angler, I think we have our priorities wrong.   Switch all bass tournaments to catch, photo and release.  Implement closed seasons on a rotating basis.  Reduce tournament bag limits to switch the emphasis on catching bigger bass.

 

1,000 weekend anglers can not hurt the fishery because they don't catch that many fish.  200 professional anglers with today's methods and technology can.  In my opinion, bed fishing is the worst thing you can do to a bass population.  If you are going to stoop that low, at least put her back on the bed where she came from.

[NoShoes]

15 hours ago, N Florida Mike said:

 For me , Super flukes gut hook way more fish than any other bait , including live bait. Gut hooking a fish isnt desirable, but it happens . 

interestingly the bad weekend I had was on magnum uv Speedworms. First tap they already had it swallowed. 
 

guess it was just really the right bait that day. 

1 hour ago, Captain Phil said:

 

Large organized bass tournaments are generally more aware of the problem.  Our bass club ran a tournament on the Harris Chain for years. We worked with the State game officials who provided us with special tanks filled with chemicals designed to help the bass recover from being handled. These were big bass tournaments with only one fish weighed per angler. All dead bass were disqualified. Later, we went to an hourly weigh in format to further reduce time in the live wells. I ran the stage in a few of these tournaments and they were very popular.  The biggest problem is small local club or community tournaments where preventing injury to bass is not a priority.  In the spring, the Chain has 3-6 of these every weekend.  Last year, I launched my boat the day after one of these tournaments and found dead bloated bass all over the marina.  This needs to be stopped.

 

Back in the day, tournaments needed to display bass on a stage in front of an audience.  That is no longer necessary.  When they pull bass out and hold them up, I think about the bass not the winner.   I have entered many offshore fishing tournaments. We don't drag sailfish or tarpon up on stage, why bass?   Why do we have tournaments where an angler wins with a limit of dinks?   If that's the definition of a champion angler, I think we have our priorities wrong.   Switch all bass tournaments to catch, photo and release.  Implement closed seasons on a rotating basis.  Reduce tournament bag limits to switch the emphasis on catching bigger bass.

 

1,000 weekend anglers can not hurt the fishery because they don't catch that many fish.  200 professional anglers with today's methods and technology can.  In my opinion, bed fishing is the worst thing you can do to a bass population.  If you are going to stoop that low, at least put her back on the bed where she came from.

Catch and release is hurting fish populations more than anything.

 

 When anglers kept there catch more often there wasn’t as much competition. Bigger fish is the result. 

[N Florida Mike]

There is something about holding up the actual fish to show you caught it that has a bigger impact then a picture. Without the public weigh in you lose all that visiblity. I’m not taking a side - just saying. 

Today is MUCH different than it was 40 years ago. Back then, our club had a fish fry too , with ALL the fish caught during a tournament. Not saying it was right, but that’s how it was. We even allowed live bait fishing ( hardly anyone did it though) . Populations did not seem to decline at all. I kept nearly every fish I caught for years ( because we were a fish eating family ), and no matter, we still had plenty .In the last 30 years , nearly all ( if not all) bass clubs at least release all their fish. I would say this is also true with the majority of recreational anglers too.
There may be a lot of people moving to Florida but a small % know or care anything about bass fishing . 

I am against unessary killing of fish, and now release the majority of fish I catch. I promise you that I dont have more fish die from live bait as opposed to lure fishing.

That being said I am 100% against a closed  season or other laws. We already have enough. I would lean towards releasing bedding fish on the spot , but I dont know how that could possibly be regulated…

I am also opposed to laws banning live bait. There are plenty of fish here. 

 

[Captain Phil]

1 hour ago, N Florida Mike said:

We even allowed live bait fishing ( hardly anyone did it though) .

 

Some time ago we had a local bass tournament tour that was put on by a tire business.  Their tournament rules allowed fishing with live bait as well as artificial lures.  I was hesitant to enter at first as I thought the shiner fishermen would have an advantage.  That did not prove to be the case as the winners always won fishing artificials.   When fishing with lures, you have the advantage of greater mobility and the option to change your presentation.  That is not the case when soaking live bait. 

[N Florida Mike]

2 hours ago, Captain Phil said:

 

Some time ago we had a local bass tournament tour that was put on by a tire business.  Their tournament rules allowed fishing with live bait as well as artificial lures.  I was hesitant to enter at first as I thought the shiner fishermen would have an advantage.  That did not prove to be the case as the winners always won fishing artificials.   When fishing with lures, you have the advantage of greater mobility and the option to change your presentation.  That is not the case when soaking live bait. 

I would think that would be true as often as not anyway…

 

7 minutes ago, N Florida Mike said:

I would think that would be true as often as not anyway…

 

we had a tournament on the home lake and the only contestant that fished strictly shiners came in last place. 

[Luke Barnes]

12 hours ago, Captain Phil said:

 

Large organized bass tournaments are generally more aware of the problem.  Our bass club ran a tournament on the Harris Chain for years. We worked with the State game officials who provided us with special tanks filled with chemicals designed to help the bass recover from being handled. These were big bass tournaments with only one fish weighed per angler. All dead bass were disqualified. Later, we went to an hourly weigh in format to further reduce time in the live wells. I ran the stage in a few of these tournaments and they were very popular.  The biggest problem is small local club or community tournaments where preventing injury to bass is not a priority.  In the spring, the Chain has 3-6 of these every weekend.  Last year, I launched my boat the day after one of these tournaments and found dead bloated bass all over the marina.  This needs to be stopped.

 

Back in the day, tournaments needed to display bass on a stage in front of an audience.  That is no longer necessary.  When they pull bass out and hold them up, I think about the bass not the winner.   I have entered many offshore fishing tournaments. We don't drag sailfish or tarpon up on stage, why bass?   Why do we have tournaments where an angler wins with a limit of dinks?   If that's the definition of a champion angler, I think we have our priorities wrong.   Switch all bass tournaments to catch, photo and release.  Implement closed seasons on a rotating basis.  Reduce tournament bag limits to switch the emphasis on catching bigger bass.

 

1,000 weekend anglers can not hurt the fishery because they don't catch that many fish.  200 professional anglers with today's methods and technology can.  In my opinion, bed fishing is the worst thing you can do to a bass population.  If you are going to stoop that low, at least put her back on the bed where she came from.

I think this is the main reason MLF was created. To say " we release them where they were caught after a quick weight"  Ive heard mixed feelings about the competition side of it with anybody can catch dinks but it takes skill to find and catch five of the biggest. My opinion is a mix of both. I like the fast paced action of MLF but seeing some of the big ol hawgs that were caught on a B.A.S.S tournament is exciting. But I would rather see the catch, the reaction, the moment it comes out of the water. Not a guy holding it up on stage. 

 

Back on live bait, ive never been able to specifically target one species with minnows before so I dont know why I would want to start trying now when I kinda know how and when and where to use lures. 

[gim]

14 hours ago, Captain Phil said:

Switch all bass tournaments to catch, photo and release.

All of the walleye tournaments up here have now gone to this. Each team counts their 5 largest walleyes by length and that team is the winner. It never used to be like that. Walleye anglers would pile their fish into a live well, plow across a big choppy lake, weigh in their catch, and then donate them or keep them. Walleyes die more easily than bass too. Catch and release was non-existent in the walleye realm. The pandemic changed that because they didn’t want people gathering anymore. It was such a success and so popular, now they all do it.

 

Kayak bass tournaments do it. Muskie tournaments do it too. It’s only a matter of time before bass tournaments will all be doing it too if you ask me.

 

10 hours ago, N Florida Mike said:

That being said I am 100% against a closed  season or other laws.

We still have a closed season for most game fish seasons here, including bass. Ours opens on May 14 this spring. I believe parts of Canada do not open to bass fishing until June.