Freshwater Gear Nightmare

[newmanme]

Hi everyone,

 

Let me start by saying I am returning to the freshwater scene after nearly 30+ years. As a kid in the 70's and 80's I fished almost daily in the Monongahela River, south of Pittsburgh. My friends and I were boat poor, so bank fishing was our only option. We mainly bottom fished for large catfish, Bullheads, Channels, Flatheads, Carp, Walleye, and whatever was biting. Being just below the Maxwell locks and Dam gave us a wide variety to fish for like pike, musky, walleye, Large mouth Bass, Smallmouth bass, crappie, and panfish. 

 

Like I said above we were bottom fisherman. And that is where I am seemingly running into gear issues. 

 

Let me say this respectfully, but loudly, "I am not a lure fisherman". Go ahead and bash me, but again my friends and I couldn't afford them. We were limited to live and cut bait. So as an adult I have not learned to lure fish and I do not like standing around casting and reeling all day long. I like to enjoy the relaxing and social aspect of fishing as much as I enjoy catching. If its work, it isn't fishing and that is just my personal take.

 

For the past 30 years I have been saltwater fishing offshore, inshore and surf. My favorite gear is Shimano Tyrnos II, Baitrunners and Thunnus CI4 reels. They are not tiny reels, and weigh a lot more than most freshwater gear, especially my 12000 series. In fact my 4000 baitrunner is heavier,  has half the bearings, and holds less line than my new 5000 series freshwater reel. One of the dilemma's I am facing here is trying to balance quality with weight and how it feels in my hands. Todays freshwater gear feels 'toyish' in my hands still. My Vanfords are awesome, but they still feel "toyish"  

 

I finally settled on Shimano Vanford's C3000XG's and C5000XG's (two each). Why? Lets do this real quick, lightweight, CI4, 7+1 bearings, 20 to 24 lb drag, the C5000XG holds 250 yd. of 30# Maxcuatro braid, stealthy looks, and did I mention that both the 3000 (37) and the 5000 (40) have faster TPI than my giant saltwater reels. 

 

Now that I have found the perfect reels, I can't seem to find the right rods. What is it with all the finesse crap with spinning reels? I have found one thing so far that I cannot do with a spinning rod that all the baitcasters spend large amounts of money to do. And the only reason I can't do it is because I do not have a boat, which is skipping under docks. So can someone please explain to me how as a kid I could catch bluegill, sunfish, small bass and sometimes crappie with my little $30 Zebco's, while I am seeing $600 to $900 reels to be able to cast super light gear for panfish??? That's without a $500 to a $1000 rod paired to it. 

 

Anyway, I purchased a pair of Shimano Clarus CSS70MHE's and CSS66M2E's, no I am not loyal to any rod maker at this point. The guys at the store thought it weird I wanted medium heavy fast rods in the CSS70MHE's, thinking they were too heavy actioned for freshwater? Well, here is one better, I am so weird that these rods are to whimsy for me. Put on a 1-ounce sinker and a piece of cutbait and that rod feels like I am trying to sling a 12 ounce sinker? I can put a 3-Ounce sinker and two large pieces of cutbait on my Talus TLS70MA, which is a medium fast inshore rod and sling it 100 yards with no problems. 

 

Why does the Talus TLS70MA have more backbone as a medium fast than the Clarus CSS70MHE as a medium-heavy fast? Both rods are made by Shimano, same length 7', one is inshore and one is freshwater. (Fiberglass vs Carbon maybe?)

 

What I am trying to find in a rod is something in between these two as far as backbone. If the Clarus is a 1 and the Talus is a 10, I think I am looking for something around 6 or 7 for freshwater. If that makes any sense.

 

Here is a guy that almost wishes he'd stuck with saltwater fishing at this point.  Is there any other Bottom Fisherman out there that might be able to help me find a good rod that I am comfortable with. The most I have ever paid for a rod is $240 for an St Croix Avid X that was a total waster of my money. Lets just say I am not paying over $200 for another rod that feels like it was meant for a 10 year old with daddies credit card.

     - With that said, I have a Shimano Curado DC on a St Croix Avid-X 7' MF, spooled with 150 yard of SS2 blue 20# braid,  that has been used about 5 times in fresh water only for sale, just make an offer

 

I know that what is happening here is being caused by my lack of knowledge on the subject. Anyone out there, please feel free to school me on todays rods in a way I can understand and maybe help me find a good, Catfish rod? I am so lost with finding the right rod...

 

 

[Deleted account]

49 minutes ago, newmanme said:

Why does the Talus TLS70MA have more backbone as a medium fast than the Clarus CSS70MHE as a medium-heavy fast? Both rods are made by Shimano, same length 7', one is inshore and one is freshwater. (Fiberglass vs Carbon maybe?)

 

First bite at the elephant:

Because they are using two different scales. The Clarus is a bass/fresh water one, and the Talus (good rod by the way) is a salt water one. Apples and oranges. Roughly a heavy rated bass rod, will be a medium inshore salt water one, but there is no standard, so not exact.

The 6-7 rod you are looking for lives outside the bass isles. I like the lighter St Croix surf rods in 7' or so for what you are describing, Okuma, and Tica make some nice ones too. 

[KP Duty]

I wish I thought higher end gear  was a waste of money.   BPS Spring Classic/trade-in deal is still on....just grab a combo with the rod power/taper you feel is adequate.  

[Dwight Hottle]

My simple solution to you is to shop saltwater gear for your needs. 

[newmanme]

19 hours ago, KP Duty said:

I wish I thought higher end gear  was a waste of money.   BPS Spring Classic/trade-in deal is still on....just grab a combo with the rod power/taper you feel is adequate.  

Maybe not all high priced gear is a waste? Heavy Salt gear makes sense to me if you are professionally fishing it would also make sense.

 

I just do not understand a $1000 rod and reel combo to fish for panfish? Sorry, but when my parents were tired of me fidgeting around being bored, they would put on a bobber and a worm on my little zebco 33 and I'd catch them all day long. $30 vs $1000 for fish you catch for fun..... 
 

But, I am a bit more practical. An example of how I think is this; I can buy three Vanford Reels for the price of one Stella. I have had a Stella in my hands a few times, the only thing they have on the Vanford is more bearings making it slightly smother to reel in and a bit heavier. Three to one, fish with two and have a new spare for the same price  can't beat that. 

[TOXIC]

So I’m a little confused, are you looking to get into casting or are you going to continue bottom fishing?   If you are bottom fishing, weight and cost are really not important.  If you are getting back into casting (which you said you didn’t like) then there are a lot more considerations. Weight plays a part if you are making multiple casts all day, so does balance, so does quality.  If I missed what type of fish you are aiming at then my bad but those 3 techniques (fresh gamefish, fresh bottom and salt) all require totally different gear and some on the fresh gamefish will as well.  Walleye, Muskie, pike, bass, panfish all have different requirements.  

[Mobasser]

You can use a 1000 dollar rod to fish for panfish, but there's really no need to. My wife and I catch a lot of crappies each year on Falcon lt action rods and Shimano Sienna spinning reels.  Cost is around 120 for each outfit. You also don't need a 1000 rod to catch bass also.

[newmanme]

17 hours ago, Dwight Hottle said:

My simple solution to you is to shop saltwater gear for your needs. 

That is what I am thinking too. But why all the resistance to make "good" heavy rods for spinning gear? I know more people out there fish for Trophy Catfish other than myself? What, is catfishing now a lower cast activity in 2022? I would like to see a bassermen bring in a 5' 40# flat cat on a 7'0 Medium Fast rod with 10# line. 

 

I have nothing against Bass fishing. I suck at it, but still try occasionally. I am more of a live bait guy. I just get irritated when all the freshwater gear seems to be focused on Bass these days. There are a lot of other fish out there in the rivers and lakes that are more abundant and a better fight and Walleye are way better on the table. Walleye, Musky, Pike, Sturgeon, Carp, Catfish, Paddlefish, striped bass, rock bass, and the list goes on.  And all the gear is focused on BASS???????

 

Not very fair to the rest of us anglers that make up a way larger population of fishermen.

[Mike L]

Don’t get irritated because bass fishing is more popular in this country than any of the other species.

In that sense it is very fair. 

 

If fishing with a bobber and live bait while sitting back waiting for something to swim by and bite was as popular, the equipment to cater to that would be the norm. 
It isn’t for a reason. 

Just buy what you want to fish for what you like.
 

 

 

 

 

Mike 

[TOXIC]

14 minutes ago, newmanme said:

I would like to see a bassermen bring in a 5' 40# flat cat on a 7'0 Medium Fast rod with 10# line. 

Since you asked??

Actually the cat fish was caught the rod you mentioned but 6# line.  Probably not 40lbs but close.  The Northern Snakehead was on 6lb test but a 7ft medium rod.  It was 14.9lbs.

[roadwarrior]

    - With that said, I have a Shimano Curado DC on a St Croix Avid-X 7' MF, spooled with 150 yard of SS2 blue 20# braid,  that has been used about 5 times in fresh water only for sale, just make an offer.

 

Well, if you decide to fish for bass, this is all you need unless you develop greater interest

for a variety of techniques. I guess your stuff will work for cats, but even so your gear is way

too heavy.

[Eric 26]

31 minutes ago, newmanme said:

That is what I am thinking too. But why all the resistance to make "good" heavy rods for spinning gear? I know more people out there fish for Trophy Catfish other than myself? What, is catfishing now a lower cast activity in 2022? I would like to see a bassermen bring in a 5' 40# flat cat on a 7'0 Medium Fast rod with 10# line. 

 

I have nothing against Bass fishing. I suck at it, but still try occasionally. I am more of a live bait guy. I just get irritated when all the freshwater gear seems to be focused on Bass these days. There are a lot of other fish out there in the rivers and lakes that are more abundant and a better fight and Walleye are way better on the table. Walleye, Musky, Pike, Sturgeon, Carp, Catfish, Paddlefish, striped bass, rock bass, and the list goes on.  And all the gear is focused on BASS???????

 

Not very fair to the rest of us anglers that make up a way larger population of fishermen.

Not trying to start a fight here, but I was just at my local BPS last night picking up my panfish rod appropriately named panfish elite. Saw but did not buy musky rods labeled as such, prodigy walleye rods and a pretty sizable display of catfish specific rods. Only the musky rods were not manufactured specifically for BPS. My favorite local shop carries tons of various rods aimed at all species and the staff has the knowledge to help you pick them out based on your needs and budget. I’m just saying if you can’t find what you’re looking for you might want to try some different shops than where you’re currently shopping. Good luck in your search.

[newmanme]

22 minutes ago, Mike L said:

Don’t get irritated because bass fishing is more popular in this country than any of the other species.

In that sense it is very fair. 

 

If fishing with a bobber and live bait while sitting back waiting for something to swim by and bite was as popular, the equipment to cater to that would be the norm. 
It isn’t for a reason. 

Just buy what you want to fish for what you like.
 

 

 

 

 

Mike 

Bass fishing is very popular, as long as you have a boat here in Florida. Did you know that Florida's fourth largest lake in size and deepest at over 100' is 100% private even though tax payers cover 100% of the cost to stock and maintain it? Of course you can hire one of the locals that live in the lake front HOA's to take you out for 4 hours at $500

 

Less than 1% of Florida's freshwater fishing is publicly accessible without a boat. I sold my 31' offshore money pit in 2017, not buying another boat at todays fuel and boat prices.  I had a 101 gal tank on the other one. Fill that up with non ethanol gas (about $600) a day of fishing on the ocean will easily cost over $300 in fuel alone. NOPE no BOAT for ME!!

 

I have returned to BANK freshwater fishing and maybe I should have noted that earlier.

[Dwight Hottle]

48 minutes ago, newmanme said:

That is what I am thinking too. But why all the resistance to make "good" heavy rods for spinning gear? I know more people out there fish for Trophy Catfish other than myself? What, is catfishing now a lower cast activity in 2022? I would like to see a bassermen bring in a 5' 40# flat cat on a 7'0 Medium Fast rod with 10# line. 

 

 

 

Maybe @Bluebasser86 will reply. He has caught some pretty decent flatheads & other cats using bass tackle while fishing for bass. 

[newmanme]

15 minutes ago, Eric 26 said:

Not trying to start a fight here, but I was just at my local BPS last night picking up my panfish rod appropriately named panfish elite. Saw but did not buy musky rods labeled as such, prodigy walleye rods and a pretty sizable display of catfish specific rods. Only the musky rods were not manufactured specifically for BPS. My favorite local shop carries tons of various rods aimed at all species and the staff has the knowledge to help you pick them out based on your needs and budget. I’m just saying if you can’t find what you’re looking for you might want to try some different shops than where you’re currently shopping. Good luck in your search.

Nope, no fights here  I am open to all input good and not so good  I am a very open and honest person, what you see is what you get.

 

Yes, visiting shops is a good choice. I only have one serious place near me where I purchased my 4 Vanford's and the Clarus Rods they are on. The stores are mainly salt around here as I am in St Augustine. The big problem I have faced with the stores is very low stock. Stock does seem to be increasing, and that is why I am trying to get ideas from everyone. Without actually fishing with the gear for a day or two, I can't just pick up a rod at the store and say yep this will work  

40 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

Since you asked??

Actually the cat fish was caught the rod you mentioned but 6# line.  Probably not 40lbs but close.  The Northern Snakehead was on 6lb test but a 7ft medium rod.  It was 14.9lbs.

Awesome catches. I will not disagree with you because I remember catching big carp and cats (30" and upwards) on small Zebco gear as a kid.

 

I guess all the years fishing heavy gear in the salt and sand may have me discombobulated. You are also standing on an advantage I no longer have to get to the areas and not have to try to long cast to them.

[newmanme]

33 minutes ago, roadwarrior said:

    - With that said, I have a Shimano Curado DC on a St Croix Avid-X 7' MF, spooled with 150 yard of SS2 blue 20# braid,  that has been used about 5 times in fresh water only for sale, just make an offer.

 

Well, if you decide to fish for bass, this is all you need unless you develop greater interest

for a variety of techniques. I guess your stuff will work for cats, but even so your gear is way

too heavy.

On my Vanford C3000XG's I have 15# SS2 and the C5000Xg's have 30# SS2.  I was told that the line size matters little when you have 30# or less sized braid. It is the color that matters more?  

 

When I asked about using 30# I was told that the line # and the rod specs are used in conjunction with your reels drag to keep the line at whatever # you need up to the reel max. Meaning I can set it up where the reel never allows more than 6# drag. But if I choose to change the species I am interested in I just adjust the drag? I have caught small 6" bass and 4" crappie on both the Vanfords with up to 30#  braid line.

 

I am not saying either of you is right or wrong, I am just looking for advice. Even though a bit young to be the oldest, at 55 I no longer have any senior family members to sit and talk with about fishing. So I am reaching out to you all. Yes, I am a bit opiniated, but always open to debate and to change my view when wrong. 

 

44 minutes ago, roadwarrior said:

    - With that said, I have a Shimano Curado DC on a St Croix Avid-X 7' MF, spooled with 150 yard of SS2 blue 20# braid,  that has been used about 5 times in fresh water only for sale, just make an offer.

 

Well, if you decide to fish for bass, this is all you need unless you develop greater interest

for a variety of techniques. I guess your stuff will work for cats, but even so your gear is way

too heavy.

I did not think anyone would bite on that  , it really isn't for sale. If I ever do want to learn to use a baitcaster I have one. I have had too many people tell me to have at least one freshwater 7' MF in my fishing arsenal its there, even if just for looks  

 

I have used it to fish for bass at the Rodman twice. All day tossing lured lures and I was sore for a week with nothing to show except some snagged 12" Gizzard Shad, nasty buggers  

[gim]

I was in a Cabela's a couple weeks ago during their Spring Sale and I will tell you first hand that the majority of tackle is not catered directly to bass anglers.  Its a regional thing.  Most of the tackle here is directed towards walleye anglers because that is the primary demographic of anglers we have here.

 

I also saw a fair amount of panfish and muskie gear.

 

In the winter, there is also a specific section of ice fishing tackle.  Most of that was gone because ice fishing season is pretty much over here now.

[newmanme]

19 hours ago, Dwight Hottle said:

My simple solution to you is to shop saltwater gear for your needs. 

It is looking more that way  I guess that all the gear is focused on Bass because there are so many different techniques and requirements for those techniques. 

 

Here are some of those techniques that one rod manufactures has a rod for, every technique, all 19 separate rods and reels!

 

Some below look like duplicates, one is cast and one is spin if you see two:

 

 

Jerk Bait

Spinner Bait

Sq Bill Crankin’

Jig/Worm

Bladed Jig

Frog

Carolina Rig

Swim bait

Crankbait

Flippin'

Finesse Tube

Shakey Head

Jig/Wo rm

Crankbait

Drop Shot

Punchin' Rod

Mag Swimbait

Lipless Crankbait

Deep Crankbait

 

Are we are talking about fishing here right? I am thinking someone might need a degree in biology to understand how to catch one type of fish?

 

Come on, how many of you out there (that are not tournament pros) have 19 different rod and reel combinations to fish for one fish?

 

I am returning to freshwater, and a bit new for Bass and Crappie fishing. How do I pick out three methods to buy gear for when I have never really tried any of them in over 20 years  We do not get to try before we buy and because of all the online stores we can't even see these rods and reels in person let alone try them.

 

I fish from the bank solely now. What three rods and reels would you recommend to start and why?

my requirements:

1. long casting but has to be 7'6" or less for transporting and casting area. You cannot

2. Reel Under $300

3. Rod under $200

4. Braid only as I do not fish with mono, I use Fluorocarbon Leaders down to 4#

 

2 minutes ago, gimruis said:

I was in a Cabela's a couple weeks ago during their Spring Sale and I will tell you first hand that the majority of tackle is not catered directly to bass anglers.  Its a regional thing.  Most of the tackle here is directed towards walleye anglers because that is the primary demographic of anglers we have here.

 

I also saw a fair amount of panfish and muskie gear.

 

In the winter, there is also a specific section of ice fishing tackle.  Most of that was gone because ice fishing season is pretty much over here now.

I would love to one day visit a Bass Pro. Unfortunately we do not have one in my area yet.

 

We do have one coming in the near future to the new Bartram Park Town Center that is being built in North Saint Johns County, but that is still a a few years away.

 

The regional thing that gets me is that this area is pretty much saltwater. You have to travel south and west to all the lakes and rivers. I can only hope with the Bass Pro Tourney being held on the Saint Johns in Palatka that they will have a lot of freshwater gear too to look at in person.

 

 

[roadwarrior]

 

[newmanme]

Just now, Mobasser said:

You can use a 1000 dollar rod to fish for panfish, but there's really no need to. My wife and I catch a lot of crappies each year on Falcon lt action rods and Shimano Sienna spinning reels.  Cost is around 120 for each outfit. You also don't need a 1000 rod to catch bass also.

Excellent, I have seen that crappie gear is a lot more reasonable, and quite frankly great gear for its targeted species. B&M gear comes highly recommended (from another forum) and is very fair priced from what I have seen for crappie rods.

 

Sorry that I refer to Crappie as Pan fish, it's not to be insulting. This is the first year that I have fished for Crappie. Still working on catching one

 

Spinning Rod - I am just trying to find a quality Heavy Fast to take a look at, feel it in my hands. I didn't think that would be a problem except I can't seem to find Heavy-Fast Rods for freshwater Spinning Rods. Lots of Heavy baitcaster rods, none for spinning? This is where I am getting frustrated. I can find plenty of Heavy powered rods for a baicaster but zip for the spinners.

[MN Fisher]

4 minutes ago, newmanme said:

Excellent, I have seen that crappie gear is a lot more reasonable, and quite frankly great gear for its targeted species. B&M gear comes highly recommended (from another forum) and is very fair priced from what I have seen for crappie rods.

 

Sorry that I refer to Crappie as Pan fish, it's not to be insulting. This is the first year that I have fished for Crappie. Still working on catching one

Crappie are panfish, at least to me - and other rod lines that are good for crappie are the Okuma Celilo and Daiwa Procyon - I have 2 of the former and 1 of the latter dedicated to panfishing.

 

6 minutes ago, newmanme said:

Spinning Rod - I am just trying to find a quality Heavy Fast to take a look at, feel it in my hands. I didn't think that would be a problem except I can't seem to find Heavy-Fast Rods for freshwater Spinning Rods. Lots of Heavy baitcaster rods, none for spinning? This is where I am getting frustrated. I can find plenty of Heavy powered rods for a baicaster but zip for the spinners.

Dobyns has the 705SF in both Sierra and Champion models - the line/lure stats are what I would consider 'heavy'.

Also, Okuma Reflections MH/F spinning is near heavy range, so would work also.

[bigbassin']

7 hours ago, newmanme said:

Bass fishing is very popular, as long as you have a boat here in Florida. Did you know that Florida's fourth largest lake in size and deepest at over 100' is 100% private even though tax payers cover 100% of the cost to stock and maintain it? Of course you can hire one of the locals that live in the lake front HOA's to take you out for 4 hours at $500

Out of curiosity which lake is this? Just taking a guess at the 10 largest, I can’t think of any that don’t have a public ramp.

[Further North]

On 3/30/2022 at 10:18 AM, newmanme said:

I sold my 31' offshore money pit in 2017, not buying another boat at todays fuel and boat prices.  I had a 101 gal tank on the other one. Fill that up with non ethanol gas (about $600) a day of fishing on the ocean will easily cost over $300 in fuel alone. NOPE no BOAT for ME!!

I fill up the 42 gallon tank on my 18 1/2 ft. Crestliner once a season...twice if I go to Canada.

...and I fish 3 - 4 days a week.  The big motor (a Suzuki DF140 with a Johnson cover on it - Johnzuki) runs maybe 15 minutes a day...

I'm not terribly concerned about gas prices.

[TOXIC]

On 3/30/2022 at 11:24 AM, newmanme said:

Awesome catches. I will not disagree with you because I remember catching big carp and cats (30" and upwards) on small Zebco gear as a kid.

 

I guess all the years fishing heavy gear in the salt and sand may have me discombobulated. You are also standing on an advantage I no longer have to get to the areas and not have to try to long cast to them.

And I wasn’t trying to be snarky.  I certainly wasn’t trying for those fish when I caught them and it would have been much easier on the right gear.  Good luck in your search.?

[newmanme]

On 3/31/2022 at 11:59 AM, Further North said:

I fill up the 42 gallon tank on my 18 1/2 ft. Crestliner once a season...twice if I go to Canada.

...and I fish 3 - 4 days a week.  The big motor (a Suzuki DF140 with a Johnson cover on it - Johnzuki) runs maybe 15 minutes a day...

I'm not terribly concerned about gas prices.

Howdy Howdy,

 

That sounds a lot more economical than what I had  

 

The main gas usage is getting to the offshore spots like reefs or my favorite spot being the Red Snapper Sink about 30 NM SE of St Augustine  pair the distance with about 2 MPG I/O's and it was no longer economical or enjoyable for me. 

 

While I miss having a boat, I do not regret trading it in on a 35' Camper that my wife and I use two to three times a month. And, I never realized that less there is less than 1% of Florida's freshwater angling available to non boaters and, Florida's 5th lagers and deepest freshwater lake is 100% private.

 

Imagine the lake that you and your friends grew up with, fishing, swimming, boating, skiing, now a private lake. Of course you can always pay one of the lake front HOA residents to taker you out for half a day at $500, while your takes support and stock the lake ? 

(Kingsley Lake, google it and see)

 

 

 

 

On 3/30/2022 at 6:55 PM, bigbassin' said:

Out of curiosity which lake is this? Just taking a guess at the 10 largest, I can’t think of any that don’t have a public ramp.

Kingsley Lake

 

Stricklands and the campgrounds next door were the only access. Now HOA's. 

 

If you are active Military "I think" you can access via Camp Blanding.