Lew's Speed Spool Tournament MB Spool Slipping

[Situize]

I have had my Tournament MB for about 2-3 years now and have had no problems up until this fishing season. I am using 12lb monofilament tied directly through the holes on the spool so the line isn't slipping on the spool itself, and I also have ensured that my drag star is tight and set properly. The issue I am having is that when reeling in my bait and doing "twitching" motions much like you would with a jerk bait my spool seems to "go free" and be able to spin backwards causing large backlashes as the spool spins freely even when the thumb bar is not depressed. The handle itself doesn't seem to be able to turn backwards, and when I try to turn the spool with my fingers it doesn't turn freely. This problem seems to happen at random times but seems to be frequent. I clean and oil my reels regularly and this seems to be the only reel that has had this issue. 

 

The only thing I can think that may be "broken" is my anti reverse bearing, but as mentioned, the handle doesn't seem to be able to turn backwards so I'm a little confused what the issue might be. If you have any suggestions or ideas please let me know. 

[newapti5]

When we press down the thumb bar, the pinion gear moves inwards a little so the spool pin isn't locked into the pinion gear anymore; thus the spool can turn freely. When we turn the handle, the pinion gear pushes back out and locks in the spool pin, so the spool can't move freely anymore. 

 

When a reel inside is dirty, under-greased, or over-greased, sometimes the pinion gear won't push all the way back when the handle is turned; thus the spool pin is only half-locked into the pinion gear. When that happens, you will notice the clicking sound isn't normal. Since the spool pin is only half-locked in, when you give the spool some torque with those "twitching," the pin will slip out of the pinion gear and "go freely" sometimes. 

 

This is my only guess according to your description. If that's the case, you should give the reel a deep cleaning, and re-greasing. I mean down-to-the-bone cleaning. 

[garroyo130]

2 hours ago, Situize said:

The only thing I can think that may be "broken" is my anti reverse bearing, but as mentioned, the handle doesn't seem to be able to turn backwards so I'm a little confused what the issue might be. If you have any suggestions or ideas please let me know. 

 

It does sound like AR bearing. Try to lightly slap the handle backwards repeatedly with the handle at different angles. If it slips at any point its your AR bearing. In my experience when AR bearings go bad they do what you're describing.

[newapti5]

23 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

 

It does sound like AR bearing. Try to lightly slap the handle backwards repeatedly with the handle at different angles. If it slips at any point its your AR bearing. In my experience when AR bearings go bad they do what you're describing.

 

I thought it's the AR bearing at first, but not so sure anymore. If it's the AR bearing's problem, that means the chain of force is still intact, all the way from spool to handle. Those "twitching" would cause the spool to turn backward, and then the pinion gear turns backward; then the main gear; then main shaft (assuming the drag is locked down); then the handle (since the AR bearing is not working now). That means handle should move backward with the spool as well, when the problem occurs.

 

I think the only scenario that the spool can move freely while the handle doesn't, is when the drag is slipping, or as I explained, when the spool pin isn't connected with pinion gear anymore - the chain of force is broken there. 

 

This is only my little deduction, open for discussion.

[Situize]

31 minutes ago, newapti5 said:

When we press down the thumb bar, the pinion gear moves inwards a little so the spool pin isn't locked into the pinion gear anymore; thus the spool can turn freely. When we turn the handle, the pinion gear pushes back out and locks in the spool pin, so the spool can't move freely anymore. 

 

When a reel inside is dirty, under-greased, or over-greased, sometimes the pinion gear won't push all the way back when the handle is turned; thus the spool pin is only half-locked into the pinion gear. When that happens, you will notice the clicking sound isn't normal. Since the spool pin is only half-locked in, when you give the spool some torque with those "twitching," the pin will slip out of the pinion gear and "go freely" sometimes. 

 

This is my only guess according to your description. If that's the case, you should give the reel a deep cleaning, and re-greasing. I mean down-to-the-bone cleaning. 

When deep cleaning the insides should I be looking for anything in specific that may indicate that this is the issue? I think that this may be the solution as I don't think its my AR as I tried slapping the handle and it didn't seem to reverse. I will clean it tomorrow but wanted to know what I should be looking for in terms of finding if this is the issue. 

[Situize]

9 minutes ago, newapti5 said:

 

I thought it's the AR bearing at first, but not so sure anymore. If it's the AR bearing's problem, that means the chain of force is still intact, all the way from spool to handle. Those "twitching" would cause the spool to turn backward, and then the pinion gear turns backward; then the main gear; then main shaft (assuming the drag is locked down); then the handle (since the AR bearing is not working now). That means handle should move backward with the spool as well, when the problem occurs.

 

I think the only scenario that the spool can move freely while the handle doesn't, is when the drag is slipping, or as I explained, when the spool pin isn't connected with pinion gear anymore - the chain of force is broken there. 

 

This is only my little deduction, open for discussion.

The handle is 100% not moving backward when this happens as I have my hand on the reel and on the handle when retrieving the bait and doing the "twitches" so I know for a fact that the handle doesn't turn backwards when the spool does go free.

 

I will mention however that my handle assembly does have some side to side play (horizontally.) I took off the handle nut, handle, washers, and drag star and the whole main shaft has this same side to side play (not just a loose handle.) I looked up online on other forums and they said that some side to side play is normal (especially on old used baitcasters). Could this be a potential indicator of what is happening?

[garroyo130]

19 minutes ago, newapti5 said:

That means handle should move backward with the spool as well, when the problem occurs.

 

100% handle should move. I suggested checking that because I know when it first happened to me, it caught me so off guard that I didn't even notice any movement in the handle. 

[Phil77]

Might be excess grease on the AR bearing or you assembled the drag in the wrong order. Try wiping any excess grease from the AR bearing and double check the drag washers.

[newapti5]

1 hour ago, Situize said:

some side to side play is normal (especially on old used baitcasters). Could this be a potential indicator of what is happening?

 

Unless the side to side play is so abnormally large that it causes main gear to disengage with pinion gear, I don't think this is the problem.

 

1 hour ago, Situize said:

When deep cleaning the insides should I be looking for anything in specific that may indicate that this is the issue?

 

Oh boy, there're many parts and issues that could cause this problem, that's why I suggested a total deep clean and re-grease. If that's not possible, I would suggest focusing on the red-circled parts as below (this is the schematics of my left-handed Tournament MB, so bear with me). These are the parts mainly associated with pinion gear engagement mechanism. Check them for misshapes and wears, make sure they're clean, and then re-grease them properly. 

 

[Tatulatard]

Is the pad of your palm pressing the thumb bar on a jerk?

[newapti5]

4 minutes ago, Tatulatard said:

Is the pad of your palm pressing the thumb bar on a jerk?

 

That's a good question. Half-pressed thumb bar could cause the spool pin to slip out of pinion gear.

 

OK, I'm going to bed. Let us know how it turns out.

[dodgeguy]

Is your drag tight ?

[Situize]

On 3/28/2022 at 8:59 PM, newapti5 said:

If that's the case, you should give the reel a deep cleaning, and re-greasing. I mean down-to-the-bone cleaning. 

I just finished deep cleaning the entire internals this weekend, ensured that my drag washers were installed properly, and cleaned the build up of excess grease on my AR bearing. I re-oiled/greased everything and it seems good to go. will do more testing tomorrow but overall the deep clean seemed to fix the pinion gear not going in or out all the way. I appreciate all the help and avoiding me having to send to a technician for repairs!