What has changed so much in 70 years to reduce my daily catches from hundreds ?

[Catt]

@akmac Ya need to do a little research into Lake Sam Rayburn.

 

According to Fisheries Biologist Todd Driscoll Rayburn is managed as a tournament lake. Biologist have studied the effects of tournament fishing on Rayburn more the any other body of water.

 

The are more tournaments ananually on Sam Rayburn than any lake in America. The level of tournament anglers in Texas tournament trails are arguably better than any. 

 

Guess what Rayburn is still putting out multiple double digits & 30-45# stringer annually.

 

Do a little reading & you'll be surprised at the annual death rate by natural causes.

 

 

[The Maestro]

What was the population 70 years ago?

[Mobasser]

I tend to think that tournaments don't hurt the bass population overall. Not everyone catches fish in tournaments. I also don't believe the Senko or any bait is sure fire. If that were the case, you would never see guys getting skunked.

[Catt]

@akmac I ain't totally disagreeing with ya!

 

I've seen numbers as high as you referenced & I've seen numbers significantly lower on both tournament & weekend warriors.

 

This subject requires you to read multiple sources of research.

[WRB]

13 hours ago, QED said:

Just another factor adding to the issues I noted.  Fishing has gotten more difficult in the delta as a result.  Glad I got to fish there in the heyday.

The Delta bass fishing is good right now, every tournament the past week needed 20 lbs to get a check and around 30 lbs to win.

Tom

[The Maestro]

Do you guys think this affects fish in waters that have year round open seasons? In Southern Ontario bass season is relatively short. Pretty much 5 months max. I suspect the fish don't remember much about which baits to avoid come the new season after having not seen a single lure for so long. I've heard of some really popular lakes declining here but I think the majority are really healthy and the fishing's as good or better than it's ever been.

[Skunkmaster-k]

I’ve never caught hundreds in one day. I guess it’s like the old saying “ better to have love and lost than to have never loved “ or whatever. 

[cyclops2]

Thank you everyone !!  I wanted to be sure it was not just me or all the clean water causing a drop off of ALL fish types.  There are no schools of small NEW hatched fish any more.  Just a few giant adults with skinny bodies.   Will sell off everything but the small boat & 1 spin rod set up.

 

Feel like the cook on the song of the ....Edmund Fitzgerald....

[akmac]

1 hour ago, Catt said:

@akmac Ya need to do a little research into Lake Sam Rayburn.

 

According to Fisheries Biologist Todd Driscoll Rayburn is managed as a tournament lake. Biologist have studied the effects of tournament fishing on Rayburn more the any other body of water.

 

The are more tournaments ananually on Sam Rayburn than any lake in America. The level of tournament anglers in Texas tournament trails are arguably better than any. 

 

Guess what Rayburn is still putting out multiple double digits & 30-45# stringer annually.

 

Do a little reading & you'll be surprised at the annual death rate by natural causes.

 

 

Sam Rayburn is 114,000 acres.  It can handle a lot of pressure.  Translate that kind of pressure to a lake under 1000 acres and see what happens.

[Catt]

22 minutes ago, akmac said:

Sam Rayburn is 114,000 acres.  It can handle a lot of pressure.  Translate that kind of pressure to a lake under 1000 acres and see what happens.

 

This time of year with tournaments included there can 1,000-1,500 boats on Rayburn. 

 

I've seen 2,500-3,000 boat on Toledo Bend over a 4 day period. 

 

We fully understand fishing pressure 

[TnRiver46]

2 hours ago, The Maestro said:

Do you guys think this affects fish in waters that have year round open seasons? In Southern Ontario bass season is relatively short. Pretty much 5 months max. I suspect the fish don't remember much about which baits to avoid come the new season after having not seen a single lure for so long. I've heard of some really popular lakes declining here but I think the majority are really healthy and the fishing's as good or better than it's ever been.

Most everywhere in the country is , it’s human nature to think the past was way better than the present. 
 

If I had a dollar for every single time I hear somebody say “I’ve never seen the water this high” or “I’ve never seen the water this low”…………….

 

pull up historical data and it’s that high and that low every single year for a century. People don’t really pay attention that closely 

[J Francho]

Euphoric recall. 

[TnRiver46]

Just now, J Francho said:

Euphoric recall. 

Heck I didn’t know there was an actual term for it. I like it! 

[gim]

Fishing pressure in general increased here for a couple seasons.  It really increased in 2020 and license sales proved that with raw data.  It dropped some in 2021, and the MN DNR said they expect it to fall back to historical levels this 2022 season.  I'm fine with that.  The less boats and people I encounter, the better.

 

The trend here has been more pressure and technological advancement during ice fishing season.  The popularity of wheel houses has exploded in recent years.  They park in one spot for weeks on end.  Live sonar has drastically cut down on the amount of time and effort needed to find a school of fish and target them when on the ice.  And the issue with ice anglers is that very few of them are targeting fish to release them.  The primary target are walleyes and panfish.  Crappies and sunfish are taking an absolute beating here.  The DNR has responded and added over 115 new lakes to a list with special limit restrictions.  There will be more of that coming.

 

As far as bass fishing, they are generally not targeted to keep here.  There is a strong catch and release ethic.  Is there more tournaments?  Ya, probably.  Is it making bass harder to catch on certain lakes?  Ya, probably.  Is there higher mortality?  Ya, probably, especially in the warm summer months.  But in general, bass fishing is doing pretty well here.  The same can be said with muskie populations.  I take a lot of pride how I fish.  My highest priority it to release the fish quickly and unharmed.  But inevitably I'm sure a few of them suffer from mortality.  Many types of tournaments for a variety of fish species have now moved to an immediate release format, which I favor.

 

Last year we had the worst drought of my lifetime here.  Water levels were at historical lows.  I've lived here since 1991.  We're starting to dig out of it though.  Keep the moisture coming and keep the hot, dry conditions south of here.

[BassNJake]

4 hours ago, akmac said:

You took my "the dirty little secret is- a good number of fish die after each tournament" quote out of context.  The next thing I said was "studies have shown as much as 30% croak up to 3 days AFTER swimming away."  Do you think science is dumb?  

 -"And the bass caught by non-tournament anglers survive?"  IF they practice catch and release- YES!  I promise you fish caught and released immediately back to from where they were caught will  survive at a much much much higher rate than those that sit in a live-well all day, are then get put in a small bag with limited 02 and other large angry fish that is sometimes rested on hot pavement (I see this at our local weigh-ins all the time) before they are allowed to flop around on a scale, get their picture taken, and then finally placed back into a different area of the lake from where they were caught.

 

 

That is what you call a horrible tournament director and lazy fisherman

In the electric motor only tournaments I started with, we had 2 weigh in tanks that were oxygenated, a release tank that was also oxygenated, a limited amount of weigh in bags(top halves of the bags are mesh, so they can be submerged in the tanks) this assured there was enough room in the weigh in tanks and guys not standing there with the fish in bags with little to no oxygen

A good tournament will not let you weigh in a dead bass.

 

The director makes sure from the time they leave the competitors boats until the time they are released, they get the best care they can. From the hook to the mesh weigh in bag its the anglers responsibility to keep the fish alive.

 

Most tournament guys I know are extra fanatic about their fish care because they understand the value of the resource as well as the huge negative public perception of bass tournaments

[Dogface]

7 hours ago, Catt said:

 

And the bass caught by non-tournament anglers survive?

 

Always thought that was the dumbest comment about tournament fishing ever!

 

No, it is not. The non-tournament anglers do not keep fish in live wells for hours and then parade them around. 

 

 

[QED]

4 hours ago, WRB said:

The Delta bass fishing is good right now, every tournament the past week needed 20 lbs to get a check and around 30 lbs to win.

Tom

That's great news.  I've been away from the delta for college and grad school and haven't been back.  When I left, my favorite spots at the turning basin were overrun by homeless people.

[WRB]

Fishing is good, the Delta safety issues are only getting worst.

Tom

[gim]

38 minutes ago, Dogface said:

The non-tournament anglers do not keep fish in live wells for hours

Not necessarily.  When you see someone who's holding a photo of two fish, they certainly did.  That actually kind of peeves me off more than a tournament because there is really no reason to hold them in a live well other than for a "glory" photo together.  At least in a tournament, they need them for a weigh in.

 

There was a recent lake here in MN that had found some smallmouth turn up dead and they had what appeared to be knife wounds in their head.  Initially, the walleye anglers got blamed for killing them intentionally.  After investigation by the MN DNR, it was found that a rare parasitic disease was present in the bass and it was being spread because people (tournament and non-tournament) were placing them in their live well, which resulted in an increased spread since they are right next to each other for who knows how long.

[The Maestro]

44 minutes ago, Dogface said:

 

No, it is not. The non-tournament anglers do not keep fish in live wells for hours and then parade them around. 

 

 

I'm sure they can take a pretty bad beating from running at high speeds in rough water too. It all adds up to stress on the fish. The MLF format isn't really feasible either for tournaments with a lot of boats unless you go by length like in kayak tournaments. You couldn't do weight since it would be to easy to cheat without an official on every boat and that would be impossible for big events. I don't really see length catching on either since bass can vary so much in thickness.

[J Francho]

1 hour ago, Dogface said:

 

No, it is not. The non-tournament anglers do not keep fish in live wells for hours and then parade them around. 

 

 

Right, some just toss the fish in a bucket and fillet them later.

[WRB]

You all are way off the subject.

Over 50 years of bass tournaments using bass boats with livewells isn’t going to change over night.

Sponor Sure Life offers Please Release Me and Catch & Release livewell additives that help to kill bacteria and parasites at tournaments. It’s up to the Tournament Directors to require livewell additives when putting live bass in livewells or adopt the weigh and verify release.

Most bass lakes large enough to have a tournament the bass population is able self sustain the population.

Tom

[cyclops2]

Too negative about contests to post.

[Bluebasser86]

19 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Right, some just toss the fish in a bucket and fillet them later.

I much prefer this to the "hero shots" of the fishermen seeking Instabook fame. At least these fish are being put to use and fish do need to be culled out. Those are healthy fish, so assuming the fishery can spare some, and they're not overly large since they aren't much larger than the opening of a 5 gallon bucket. 

 

[gim]

39 minutes ago, The Maestro said:

I don't really see length catching on either since bass can vary so much in thickness.

It has caught on in the walleye tournament scene and its something I thought I'd never see there either.  Most all of them now are very similar to a kayak tournament.  You photograph the fish on a measuring board and they count your 5 biggest walleyes as the score.

 

The reason it has caught there is different than what we're talking about in the bass realm though.  They moved to it because of covid, not because they were worried about mortality.  They didn't want a group of people gathering together at a weigh in area, whether it was inside or outside.  It worked so well that they just stuck with it.  Muskie tournaments have done catch and release based on length for as long as they have held them too.