Fluro palomar knot - why does it keep breaking off

[IneedAnewScreenName-98161861]

So past year was my first real go with fluro. I fish heavy junk almost exclusively so I'm usually on braid all day. But Im trying to better my skills and started playing around with fluro. 

Ive watched countless videos on YouTube, tried several different knots. Found one I liked actually but I love the Palomar knot for how easy it is. I know some of the pros use a Palomar on fluro but when I try I get broke off way too often. 

I wet my line, keep for burn or and damage, if it's twisted or just not right I'll retie but for some reason I have zero confidence with this knot on fluro. 

 

What am I doing wrong? Or what knot should I look into?

[jbrew73]

You are probably twisting or overlapping the line.  I can’t tie a palomar knot to save my life so I stopped trying.   

[IneedAnewScreenName-98161861]

4 minutes ago, jbrew73 said:

You are probably twisting or overlapping the line.  I can’t tie a palomar knot to save my life so I stopped trying.   

Braid I can do no problem. But fluro, big problem. 

Jacob wheeler has a good video on his YouTube how he ties it and a little trick he says makes it or breaks it but I can't seem do do it. 

So frustrating cause it's so fast and simple with braid!

[MN Fisher]

3 minutes ago, jbrew73 said:

You are probably twisting or overlapping the line.

This is the most common cause of break-off when tying FC line...line overlap.

 

3 minutes ago, jbrew73 said:

I can’t tie a palomar knot to save my life so I stopped trying.   

I can tie it - I just don't like the massive line-loss from clipping the tag end when tying larger lures like spinnerbaits, long jerkbaits, etc.

 

I've gone to the MK knot for just about everything and it's served me well.

[T-Billy]

Break offs are a problem with flouro no matter what knot you tie IME. I see pro's break fish off often in tournaments, BUT they're getting paid to use it, and sell it sooo....

 

[Mike L]

14 minutes ago, T-Billy said:

Break offs are a problem with flouro no matter what knot you tie IME. I see pro's break fish off often in tournaments, BUT they're getting paid to use it, and sell it sooo....

 

I only use a Palomar for braid. 
I use the SDJ fir all flouro which I use almost exclusively and can honestly say its never broke at the knot. 
 

I played around with the knot above and it holds just as well. 

 

 

 

Mike

[Deleted account]

On 3/19/2022 at 8:05 AM, IneedAnewScreenName-98161861 said:

So past year was my first real go with fluro. I fish heavy junk almost exclusively so I'm usually on braid all day. But Im trying to better my skills and started playing around with fluro. 

Ive watched countless videos on YouTube, tried several different knots. Found one I liked actually but I love the Palomar knot for how easy it is. I know some of the pros use a Palomar on fluro but when I try I get broke off way too often. 

I wet my line, keep for burn or and damage, if it's twisted or just not right I'll retie but for some reason I have zero confidence with this knot on fluoro. 

 

What am I doing wrong? Or what knot should I look into?

Short answer, the line is being damaged during the tying or cinching of the knot, and fluoro really doesn't like that. Folks think the palomar isn't a good knot for fluoro, but when tied correctly, it's as good as anything else. 

[Mike L]

42 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

This is the most common cause of break-off when tying FC line...line overlap.

 

I can tie it - I just don't like the massive line-loss from clipping the tag end when tying larger lures like spinnerbaits, long jerkbaits, etc.

 

I've gone to the MK knot for just about everything and it's served me well.

When tying a palomar I always snug by pulling the main line watching that it goes nice and even.
Then use the tag to tighten only. 
 

Saves a lot of line. 
 

 

 

Mike
 

 

[Deleted account]

2 minutes ago, Mike L said:

When tying a palomar I always snug by pulling the main line watching that it goes nice and even.
Then use the tag to tighten only. 
 

Saves a lot of line. 
 

 

 

Mike
 

 

That will work, but what I found works best is to keep the loop formed by the double line at the hook eye open, and cinch both together, keeping everything loose until it meets at the eye. You can even back  everything out to reduce tag end, until you are ready to cinch it down, no pressure or "scraping" anywhere along the process. 

[Catt]

I tie a Palomar knot with everything & have zero issues.

 

With a Palomar knot when cinching it down you pull the main line & tag end together. If there is any resistance something is wrong!

 

The knot should slide effortlessly!

FYI: Once you pass your lure through the loop you can at this time adjust the length of the tag end.

 

Yeah but Catt that's time consuming!

 

When I tie a knot I'm never in a hurry, the weakest link is your knot. Whichever knot you tie take the time & do it right.

[Mike L]

4 minutes ago, Deleted account said:

That will work, but what I found works best is to keep the loop formed by the double line at the hook eye open, and cinch both together, keeping everything loose until it meets at the eye. You can even back  everything out to reduce tag end, until you are ready to cinch it down, no pressure or "scraping" anywhere along the process. 

 

4 minutes ago, Catt said:

I tie a Palomar knot with everything & have zero issues.

 

With a Palomar knot when cinching it down you pull the main line & tag end together. If there is any resistance something is wrong!

 

The knot should slide effortlessly!

Yep

You guys are right of course and I’m sure it’s the correct way to do it.
Now that you mention it, it does scape but been doing it so long with no particular problem I never gave it any thought. 

 

Mike

[gim]

16 minutes ago, Catt said:

I tie a Palomar knot with everything & have zero issues.

Do you tie a palomar knot when you join braid and fluoro?

[cyclops2]

3 things can cause way to many breaks.

Bad line.

 

Trying to rip out snags.

 

Metal the line is tied to has a sharp spot / uneven / oval shape of the wire loop.

 

I use a Trilene with 1 OR 2 wraps around the wire eyelet of Rapalas. I have crossed the line on the eyelet. No breakoffs.  Rapala has EXCELLENT wire to tie MONO or Braided to.  

Take your lures to a FRIENDLY jeweler store when not busy !!  Ashim to let you see the smoothness of your lure wire.  Get lucky.

 

Bad line is my guess. Or just to much snag pulling pressure.  Fish places with less snags.

 

 

[Catt]

37 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Do you tie a palomar knot when you join braid and fluoro?

 

I don't use leaders ?

[roadwarrior]

Pitzen knot

 

https://www.fishing.org/knots/pitzen-knot

[IneedAnewScreenName-98161861]

1 hour ago, roadwarrior said:

Pitzen knot

 

https://www.fishing.org/knots/pitzen-knot

Gonna give this a try! 

Thanks!

[casts_by_fly]

With a palomar, the biggie I find is the loop.  Once you’ve passed the lure though the loop and are snugging down you have to make sure the entire knot passes through the loop and the loop is the closest thing to your rod tip as it snugs down the mainline.  If it isn’t the highest point on the knot it cuts through the middle of the knot. I can tie it repeatedly each way and break the incorrect way with 15 lb fluoro just by a quick tug. 
 

rick

[throttleplate]

My palomar for fluoro and braid.  Main line on bottom, the tag end on top and never crossed.

The first overhand knot loop is never cinched down at this point, the size of this loop is from 1/4 to 1/2 in.

 

The loop i bring the lure through is pinched in my left fingers and pulled away from the lure and pulls on the still open overhand knot loop but not cinching it.

 

  I keep pulling with a good steady pull to the point the pinched finger loop rolls over the overhand loop knot.

 

Keep enough tension on it to where i can unpinch the loop and the loop stays in place laying over to the left.

 

Then i put the knot in my mouth and roll my tongue over it, inside it. Stop your dirty thoughts now guys.

 

Then i pull the main line which cinches down the layed over loop untill it gets close to the over hand loop knot say 1/16in.

 

Then i pull both main and tag lines to cinch it up. Still i am not done, i then pull the tag line alone with a good tug and then the mainline a good tug. The knot is completed.

 

If i am at home tying snelled lures and swivels i will pick up a magnifying glass and take a look at the knots.

[BrianMDTX]

One thing to look out for is keeping the line away from the end of the eye of the hook. If it gets caught there, it can nick the line. 

[waymont]

San Diego jam knot is super easy, and I have never had a knot failure with FC line.

 

[johnmyers]

Zona has a you tube video on his favorite floro knot it looks like a Trilene knot. Fairly easy to tie and I have never had it fail. You end up with 3 tag ends and double line in your hook eye

[FishTank]

I don't use the Palomar knot that often anymore, simply because it's a pain to tie in a bouncing boat/kayak, in the wind which what I am dealing with about 75% of the time.  I started using the San Diego Jam knot last year and have had great luck with it.  The Palomar knot, when correctly tied, is a better knot in my opinion but again its hard for me to get one tied correctly.  There is, for me, a higher chance of an incorrectly tied Palomar knot breaking than a correctly tied San Diego Jam. 

[rtwvumtneer6]

On 3/19/2022 at 8:38 AM, T-Billy said:

Break offs are a problem with flouro no matter what knot you tie IME. I see pro's break fish off often in tournaments, BUT they're getting paid to use it, and sell it sooo....

 

Abort the Palomar if it's an ongoing issue.  I have been using the above knot (double pitzen?) for 2 years with success.  The only minor issue is the 3 tags can be stout with heavier line and like to grab vegetation.  A non-issue IMO as the knot is very strong, fast and easy to tie in a real world situation.  

[roadwarrior]

Too ugly.

 

[Bird]

Palomar knot is all I have ever used with braid and flouro, no problems.

Are you leaving a 1/4 inch tab when you snip it ?