Masonry

[TnRiver46]

I definitely should have consulted @Way north bass guy before doing this but………

 

we have a minor leak somewhere on the chimney at the lake house.  There was a weak part of drywall above the fireplace that we patched a few years back, it’s starting to turn black again. I got some kind of product at the hardware store that seemed relevant to the problem and got up there today and fixed some cracks . Fingers crossed  

 

@Jigfishn10 was supposed to complete this job but he was down on the dock asleep next to an empty martini glass 

 

[Jigfishn10]

TnRiver46: "Who taught you to take a nap in the middle of the job?" 

Jigfishn10: "You did boss."  

 

How's the flashing around the chimney? It looks like there's a bead of black sealant that runs along the chimney and the shingles. Usually there's a piece of step flashing that starts at the roof and runs up the side of chimney. The piece of lead cap flashing on the chimney just laps over it.

 

When I see sealant at the joint between the chimney and roof shingle it's usually cracked and no step flashing had been installed from the roof to chimney. More leaks will emanate there than the actual chimney. Hard to tell with just pics, but I wanted to point it out to you.

 

[TnRiver46]

3 minutes ago, Jigfishn10 said:

TnRiver46: "Who taught you to take a nap in the middle of the job?" 

Jigfishn10: "You did boss."  

 

How's the flashing around the chimney? It looks like there's a bead of black sealant that runs along the chimney and the shingles. Usually there's a piece of step flashing that starts at the roof and runs up the side of chimney. The piece of lead cap flashing on the chimney just laps over it.

 

When I see sealant at the joint between the chimney and roof shingle it's usually cracked and no step flashing had been installed from the roof to chimney. More leaks will emanate there than the actual chimney. Hard to tell with just pics, but I wanted to point it out to you.

 

It all seemed normal as far as I can tell? I work around that stuff all the time keeping bats out but I don’t know how to install it 

 

 

edit: just reviewed the photos, what you are seeing is a big thick black wire that does to a satellite dish 

[Jigfishn10]

3 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

It all seemed normal as far as I can tell? I work around that stuff all the time keeping bats out but I don’t know how to install it 

 

 

edit: just reviewed the photos, what you are seeing is a big thick black wire that does to a satellite dish 

Ok, is that what it is? Just check the flashing around the chimney and check the surrounding shingles for cracks and what not. Is there any way of getting underneath the roof (attic space) and seeing what's going on in that area?

[TnRiver46]

2 minutes ago, Jigfishn10 said:

Ok, is that what it is? Just check the flashing around the chimney and check the surrounding shingles for cracks and what not. Is there any way of getting underneath the roof (attic space) and seeing what's going on in that area?

Yea that’s it and a squirrel chewed on it haha. It runs all the way through the gutter to the dish, I need to just cut it loose (but maybe we will get tv down there one day).
 

 The flashing is all tucked under the shingles and adhered to the bricks, although I wouldn’t really know if it was “wrong.” The ceiling is the same pitch as the roof so I don’t think you can walk in the attic, I can check tomorrow. 
 

here’s the spot inside

 

and a few more pics I found on my

Phone

[Jigfishn10]

The roof doesn't look all that bad. You made the repair at the mortar wash on top of the chimney. Now, take a wire brush and clean the growth on the side of the chimney and see if those mortar joint are pretty sound. You may or may not encounter holes. Once you're down, take a garden hose to the top of the chimney, you'll know quick enough if you have still have a leak or not.

[BassNJake]

I think the issue was circled in the first image.

Those cracks in the mortar cap can allow water to wick its way inside

A steady rain coming from that side would speed up the process.

 

When i looked at the pics it looked as if the flashing was caulked pretty good around the top

The sides are caulked as well?

 

[TnRiver46]

2 minutes ago, BassNJake said:

I think the issue was circled in the first image.

Those cracks in the mortar cap can allow water to wick its way inside

A steady rain coming from that side would speed up the process.

 

When i looked at the pics it looked as if the flashing was caulked pretty good around the top

The sides are caulked as well?

 

The side of each piece of flashing or the sides of the chimney? I’ll have to look again tomorrow. Somehow I never saw the part circled in red until today and I’ve been up there hundreds of times 

[BassNJake]

8 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

The side of each piece of flashing or the sides of the chimney? I’ll have to look again tomorrow. Somehow I never saw the part circled in red until today and I’ve been up there hundreds of times 

 

It looks like I can see some oozing on a couple but a couple look like they have larger voids too

Any open seam where water can be pushed by the wind

(I put some red dots where it looks like there is some caulk but cant be sure)

 

[TnRiver46]

Just now, BassNJake said:

 

It looks like I can see some oozing on a couple but a couple look like they have larger voids too

Any open seam where water can be pushed by the wind

(I put some red dots where it looks like there is some caulk but cant be sure)

 

I definitely don’t think there’s any in there, I’ll sock it to it tomorrow 

[Jigfishn10]

2 minutes ago, BassNJake said:

 

It looks like I can see some oozing on a couple but a couple look like they have larger voids too

Any open seam where water can be pushed by the wind

(I put some red dots where it looks like there is some caulk but cant be sure)

 

I was kind of alluding to that area, but once again, you explained it much better than I.  

[deaknh03]

My guess is its coming from the cap area. The mortar there looks compromised. Your step flashing looks fine, you would really need a waterfall flowing uphill to get in the seams of the flashing. 

[12poundbass]

Hydraulic cement is some good stuff but you need to be quick with that stuff! I think 3-5 minutes is a bit of an over estimate. Ask me how I know. ?

[TnRiver46]

22 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

Hydraulic cement is some good stuff but you need to be quick with that stuff! I think 3-5 minutes is a bit of an over estimate. Ask me how I know. ?

Yeah I forgot to read that part……. Because it was the first thing on the label of course………

 

I ended up taking a water jug onto the roof and pouring more in every 3-5 Minutes haha. 
 

Is it a good product for the purpose I used it for? They had a whole lot to choose from

[12poundbass]

12 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Is it a good product for the purpose I used it for? They had a whole lot to choose from

If it’s going to rain soon then I’d say yes, absolutely, but if you had a couple days of dry weather I’d go with a regular mortar mix so you have more time to get it in every nook and cranny. 
 

disclaimer: I’m not an expert 

[Way north bass guy]

Oh boy, that’s exactly the kind of chimney workmanship that pays for my boat every year ? ( along with all my other bills).
 

All it takes is a pinhole for the water to get in and do a lot of damage. In the case of a brick chimney similar to yours, it usually boils down to one of ( or possibly both of ) two things. 
 

Firstly, like everyone else mentioned, double and triple check all around the flashing. Any opening or crack can be an entrance for water, especially if the wind forces it in. That flashing doesn’t look too terrible, but like everyone else said, silicone the bejesus out of it wherever there’s a joint that looks like rain can get in, use clear silicone and it won’t be noticeable from the ground.
 

The main thing I see wrong here though, is the horrible “cap” on the top of the bricks.
I’ve lost count years ago of the number of masonry chimneys I’ve fixed that looked exactly like yours, the bricklayers just finish the top row off and pile a bit of mortar on there to “shed” the water. Problem is that if there’s any freezing at all, it soon opens up a few cracks, that then only speeds up the progress of decay. Also, there is no overhang at all on your chimney to stop all the water from running down the sides of the chimney and ruining the brick faces. 
 

Keep the water out of the top, and the rest of the chimney will be around for decades, even up here in the North where it’s very, very well below freezing for months at a time. 
 

About the only  way to fix this properly is to pour a reinforced concrete cap on top of the chimney. 
 

In your case, from the pics I see it looks like the main brickwork is still in decent shape, so you shouldn’t need to remove anything. 
Easiest way to do it is to build a custom form out of plywood  for the bottom edges and 2x4s for the sides. You want to make it so the inside of the form just barely sits on the top row, and the outside of the form is approx 5” wider all around than the chimney, that way when you remove it, the concrete cap should have about a 3-3.5” overhang. Mix up your concrete fairly wet, fill up the form and slope it towards the flue, and don’t forget to run a few rows of 1/2” rebar throughout the concrete for extra strength. 
 

Leave it for a couple days, then remove the forms, and take a grinder with a masonry blade and grind a drip edge all around the bottom of the overhang. This will create a spot for the water to catch and drip off the cap, rather than run down the side of the bricks. 
 

A masonry waterproofing brushed on the concrete will also help, but don’t seal the bricks. You want them to “breathe”, if they can’t then any water trapped inside will make the bricks faces blow out if it freezes. 
 

If it’s warm enough that you aren’t using the chimney right now, but don’t want to tackle this job right away, the best way to stop leaking temporarily is to wrap the whole thing with a tarp. 
 

Also, check the roof in the area around the chimney, even an exposed roofing nail or broken shingle 10’ away can be a spot for the water to enter, then travel along the roof underside till it hits the chimney and runs down to your ceiling. 
 

Here’s a couple pics from online just to give you an idea of what it should look like. 

[TnRiver46]

35 minutes ago, Way north bass guy said:

Oh boy, that’s exactly the kind of chimney workmanship that pays for my boat every year ? ( along with all my other bills).
 

All it takes is a pinhole for the water to get in and do a lot of damage. In the case of a brick chimney similar to yours, it usually boils down to one of ( or possibly both of ) two things. 
 

Firstly, like everyone else mentioned, double and triple check all around the flashing. Any opening or crack can be an entrance for water, especially if the wind forces it in. That flashing doesn’t look too terrible, but like everyone else said, silicone the bejesus out of it wherever there’s a joint that looks like rain can get in, use clear silicone and it won’t be noticeable from the ground.
 

The main thing I see wrong here though, is the horrible “cap” on the top of the bricks.
I’ve lost count years ago of the number of masonry chimneys I’ve fixed that looked exactly like yours, the bricklayers just finish the top row off and pile a bit of mortar on there to “shed” the water. Problem is that if there’s any freezing at all, it soon opens up a few cracks, that then only speeds up the progress of decay. Also, there is no overhang at all on your chimney to stop all the water from running down the sides of the chimney and ruining the brick faces. 
 

Keep the water out of the top, and the rest of the chimney will be around for decades, even up here in the North where it’s very, very well below freezing for months at a time. 
 

About the only  way to fix this properly is to pour a reinforced concrete cap on top of the chimney. 
 

In your case, from the pics I see it looks like the main brickwork is still in decent shape, so you shouldn’t need to remove anything. 
Easiest way to do it is to build a custom form out of plywood  for the bottom edges and 2x4s for the sides. You want to make it so the inside of the form just barely sits on the top row, and the outside of the form is approx 5” wider all around than the chimney, that way when you remove it, the concrete cap should have about a 3-3.5” overhang. Mix up your concrete fairly wet, fill up the form and slope it towards the flue, and don’t forget to run a few rows of 1/2” rebar throughout the concrete for extra strength. 
 

Leave it for a couple days, then remove the forms, and take a grinder with a masonry blade and grind a drip edge all around the bottom of the overhang. This will create a spot for the water to catch and drip off the cap, rather than run down the side of the bricks. 
 

A masonry waterproofing brushed on the concrete will also help, but don’t seal the bricks. You want them to “breathe”, if they can’t then any water trapped inside will make the bricks faces blow out if it freezes. 
 

If it’s warm enough that you aren’t using the chimney right now, but don’t want to tackle this job right away, the best way to stop leaking temporarily is to wrap the whole thing with a tarp. 
 

Also, check the roof in the area around the chimney, even an exposed roofing nail or broken shingle 10’ away can be a spot for the water to enter, then travel along the roof underside till it hits the chimney and runs down to your ceiling. 
 

Here’s a couple pics from online just to give you an idea of what it should look like. 

Sooooo, when is the next time you’re in TN? 
 

i certainly don’t think I’m capable of what you’re describing, and definitely can’t afford to hire it done. I can definitely put a tarp on there but it will rot away fairly quickly in the woods I would imagine. 
 

so far, in 30 years time it has only damaged a part of drywall about as big as 2 hands. I may just wait 30 years and fix drywall again, I’ll be close to dead by then haha

 

seriously though, thanks for all the information. I guess I’m just going to have to hope I fixed the leak, I can walk up there easily any time and assess the situation