Hook Eye Gaps

[fin]

 

 

On the end of this line there was a 4/0 EWG hook, and on that hook was a Berkley Havoc tube, and on that tube was a 5# largemouth, but they’re all gone now. The line isn’t broken, it slipped through the gap in the eye of the hook. You can see the line is slightly cut/frayed at the point where it slipped out.

 

I knew this was a remote possibility, but I thought the odds of it happening were extremely small, since the line would have to be pulled in the opposite direction of the direction of the fish pull. I think I have even argued that point with someone on these forums a long time ago. Well, the odds may be debatable, but there’s no disputing the fact that I lost a really nice fish.

 

I’ll probably never use a non-slip knot (Kreh loop knot), Rapala knot, or anything like that with a hook again, unless the hook has something like VMC’s “resin-closed eye”. I thought that type of knot might give the tube a little more natural look.

 

Even using a more traditional knot, now I’m wondering if it might slip out. This has given me a paranoia. I don’t want to buy special hooks, or dip all my hooks in super glue or epoxy. I don’t want to add a snap. Maybe a split ring? That might cut the line. What’s the best (cheapest/easiest) way out?

 

Has anyone had a non-loop style knot slip out of the eye before?

[MN Fisher]

Some pliers to pinch the eye a bit more closed is all I can think of.

 

If the eye-gap is that large, I'd look at different hooks or bite the bullet and spend time with some epoxy.

[fin]

Just now, MN Fisher said:

If the eye-gap is that large

 

That's 10# mono, .011", and apparently even that wouldn't quite fit through the gap, since it's slightly cut.

 

I've never tried putting the vise grips on an eye. I'll try it, but I doubt it would close the eye any.

[fin]

The Vise Grips do work, if you squeeze it from bottom of the eye to top, not side to side - the metal just springs back. Maybe that is the solution. I mean, there is still a teeny tiny gap, I don’t know. I’ll never be able to know how big the gap was in the hook I lost.

[MN Fisher]

4 minutes ago, fin said:

I don’t know. I’ll never be able to know how big the gap was in the hook I lost.

What brand/model hooks you using anyway?

[fin]

1 minute ago, MN Fisher said:

What brand/model hooks you using anyway?

 

I don't even know what brand that particular hook was, it was in a bag with other 4/0 hooks. I admit I use cheap stuff, Eagle Claw mostly. I have a problem paying like a dollar per hook. The problem is I can't afford it ?

[MN Fisher]

5 minutes ago, fin said:

The problem is I can't afford it ?

Step up to VMC - buy direct and it's a lot cheaper

https://www.rapala.com/vmc/hooks/

[Jig Man]

I buy most of my hooks by the 1000 count.  I inspect everyone of them before using them.  No matter the brand, I find a few that didn’t get properly closed.  Those I discard.

[Aaron_H]

14 minutes ago, fin said:

 

I don't even know what brand that particular hook was, it was in a bag with other 4/0 hooks. I admit I use cheap stuff, Eagle Claw mostly. I have a problem paying like a dollar per hook. The problem is I can't afford it ?

 

If you have an Academy near you, their H2O Xpress EWG hooks are on par with the Gamakatsu Super Line EWGs but for a fraction of the cost, $5 for a 25 pack. Can't comment on their other hooks, but this one is a winner for the angler on a budget. I haven't had the line slip through the eye gap like that, but I'm fishing larger diameter line than you are so...YMMV.

[813basstard]

One of the great mysteries of the universe..

Up there with how firework stores stay open tear around and how Psychic reading stores go out of business.

really, why leave a gap there. I never understood that. 
I’ve been 100% closed eye ever since. 

[ironbjorn]

Your knot can slip into the gap, get jammed in there, and next fish is a lost fish. I've noticed that this isn't really something that happens because of a fish on, but before you ever get a fish on because of the knot slipping around the eye. I check frequently.

[Jigfishn10]

51 minutes ago, fin said:

 

That's 10# mono, .011", and apparently even that wouldn't quite fit through the gap, since it's slightly cut.

 

I've never tried putting the vise grips on an eye. I'll try it, but I doubt it would close the eye any.

Tie a heavier test mono and cut it so only 2 small tag ends show. Slide over to the gab and now tie your main line to the hook. 

 

Something I did on the water in a pinch.

[DINK WHISPERER]

Hooks aren't something I would cheap out on! Gamakatsu and Owner for me. 

[fin]

40 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

Step up to VMC - buy direct and it's a lot cheaper

https://www.rapala.com/vmc/hooks/

 

That's still like 4-5 times as much as I'm paying, and I don't like the bend on the VMC's. 

 

30 minutes ago, Aaron_H said:

 

If you have an Academy near you, their H2O Xpress EWG hooks are on par with the Gamakatsu Super Line EWGs but for a fraction of the cost, $5 for a 25 pack. Can't comment on their other hooks, but this one is a winner for the angler on a budget. I haven't had the line slip through the eye gap like that, but I'm fishing larger diameter line than you are so...YMMV.

 

I used to buy them, but at some point they switched over to all heavy gauge wire, I don't know if it's just my store. I like thinner wire.

 

29 minutes ago, 813basstard said:

I’ve been 100% closed eye ever since. 

 

You mean like the VMC?

 

17 minutes ago, Jigfishn10 said:

Tie a heavier test mono and cut it so only 2 small tag ends show. Slide over to the gab and now tie your main line to the hook. 

 

I'm not sure I follow. You mean like create a ring out of thicker mono to serve as a hook eye?

[WRB]

The problem is the loop knot!

The only time you need a close/welded eye hook is using a snell knot.

Buy quality hooks and the problem is solved. Trying to close the wire end by squeezing tighter will only fracture the heat treated metal.

Tom

[fin]

3 minutes ago, WRB said:

The problem is the loop knot!

The only time you need a close/welded eye hook is using a snell knot.

Buy quality hooks and the problem is solved. Trying to close the wire end by squeezing tighter will only fracture the heat treated metal.

Tom

 

So is the problem the loop knot or the cheap hooks?

 

Do you guys think a loop knot is a bad idea on a tube?

[MN Fisher]

5 minutes ago, fin said:

That's still like 4-5 times as much as I'm paying,

In the case of hooks...you get what you pay for. Since I'm also on a budget, I have to watch my spending...but I do 'pay the extra' for a good hook...VMC is my choice for that.

 

5 minutes ago, fin said:

and I don't like the bend on the VMC's. 

That I can't help with...but still, get away from the bargain-basement hooks.

[NYWayfarer]

I use everything from VMC, Gamakatsu, Zoneloc, Owner, Eagle Claw to Walmart Ozark trail worm hooks. Got my PB Smallmouth on one of those Ozark 1/0 hooks. Bent the hook but no problems with the hook gap. 
 

I look over my hooks for ones that have too much separation in the gap. Those I avoid using. 

[Dwight Hottle]

If you use a palmar knot the double line would eliminate your problem with the suspect hooks.  

[WRB]

29 minutes ago, fin said:

 

So is the problem the loop knot or the cheap hooks?

 

Do you guys think a loop knot is a bad idea on a tube?

All the pulling force is directly applied to the loop end and usually wears then breaks. You are not using large diameter line that would affect the tube action, no advantage to use a loop knot imo. Use a Palomar knot, problem solved.

Tom

[Deleted account]

Another reason not to use a loop knot, and as someone mentioned, a palomar or another snug knot would probably solve that 100% of the time, but a gap in the hook eye open enough to let 10 lb mono through is not acceptable in my book.

[fishwizzard]

If you just want to ease your paranoia, buy a fly tying bobbin and wrap a little ball of thread snug up to the hook eye and keep it there with a dab of crazy glue.

[Jigfishn10]

2 hours ago, fin said:

'm not sure I follow. You mean like create a ring out of thicker mono to serve as a hook eye?

Tie a clinch knot:

Cut the main line leaving the clinch knot and slide over to the gap:

Now tie your main line on and go fishing.

[813basstard]

4 hours ago, DINK WHISPERER said:

Hooks aren't something I would cheap out on! Gamakatsu and Owner for me. 

^that.

 

Boat, insurance, gas, tackle, trailer etc.

 

Spend the extra $1.37 on good hooks. 
 
Save your whole life, buy a corvette, put 87 gas from a mom and pop gas station…nah, not happening 

[cyclops2]

74 years of single hooks with meat and no hook eye problems.  But I always use the cheapest brand. Eagle Claw.