Worrying about a dead starting battery?

[Kirtley Howe]

I keep hearing...even on this forum.....about people being worried about a dead starting battery.  I guess I am dense, but I just don't get it. As long as the battery is not seriously damaged (like with a hole in it), and it is able to take a charge (it does not even have to be able to "hold" a charge...it just needs to accept and pass voltage and amps), and you have access to the battery terminals, it really should not be a big problem.  I just carry a jump box with me. You can find them at any auto store, most big stores like Walmart, Target, and on line. You can get them in whatever power level you need. I have one I paid about $49.00 for at a True Value hardware store (it is labeled as a "Peak" brand (like the antifreeze). I have used it to jump start a Mercury 150hp motor. It will jump start that motor several times before it runs out of power, even in 35 degree weather. It is about the size of a large lunch box, so it does not take up much room. There are smaller and larger units available, depending on how much you want to spend. For around $100, you can get a unit that is about a third that size, with even more starting power, or get a unit the same size with at least twice the starting power of the one I use. And they are not very heavy (15 lbs max for one that would start just about any boat motor). And they have the advantage of being portable, so you can take them out of the boat and put it in your car or truck if you wish. You just have to remember to plug it in and let it charge up after use or if it has been sitting for a week or two.. Mine can also be recharged by leaving it attached to the battery while the engine is running (make sure it is safely tied down so it cannot short out!), as long as the engine charging system works.  Just my thoughts on the matter....feel free to tell me I am incorrect and why, if you think I am wrong.

[A-Jay]

This unit rides in my boat during open water

and in the truck during hard water.

A-Jay

[GaryH]

53 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

This unit rides in my boat during open water

and in the truck during hard water.

A-Jay

That’s exactly what Is in the boat. And what’s great is how long it holds the charge. Also great in the Utv when hunting.

[Jig Man]

Have you ever had to use it in the boat?  I have a switch in the boat that allows me to change batteries in an emergency though with the X2 battery I have never needed it.

[Way2slow]

You will change your tune when that bad cranking battery cost you hundreds of dollars or leaves you stranded, or both.  

I just don't see the math in wanting to even consider running a questionable cranking battery.  Even the best of them are less than one rectifier/regulator or stator, both of which can be easily fried because of a bad battery.    

That little $50 jump box can cost you megga bucks when blow the ECM connecting it.   That minor little arc you get connecting it or jumper cables to the cranking battery is zapping the electrical system with hundreds of volts.  On a bad day, it can destroy some mighty sensitive electronics.

 

This is not limited to just boats, same thing can happen to your vehicle also.  I've been turning wrenches on boat motors and vehicles for over 60 years and can't begin to count the times I've seen this happen.

Plus I've never seen a battery that left you stranded at a good time. 

For no more than a battery cost, I don't need the grief they can cause.  I replace cranking batteries in my boats and vehicles every three years, even if they are supposed to have a seven-year warranty.  If it something that sits unused, it sits on a maintainer.

 

[Chris Catignani]

44 minutes ago, Way2slow said:

...That minor little arc you get connecting it or jumper cables to the cranking battery is zapping the electrical system with hundreds of volts.

How can it produce any more volts than 12 volts?

[A-Jay]

2 hours ago, A-Jay said:

This unit rides in my boat during open water

and in the truck during hard water.

A-Jay

These unit are energized AFTER all connections are made so there is  no arcing.  Also it is deenergizrd before connections are removed.

Without saftey we're no better than the animals. 

A-Jay

[Kirtley Howe]

1 hour ago, Way2slow said:

You will change your tune when that bad cranking battery cost you hundreds of dollars or leaves you stranded, or both.  

I just don't see the math in wanting to even consider running a questionable cranking battery.  Even the best of them are less than one rectifier/regulator or stator, both of which can be easily fried because of a bad battery.    

That little $50 jump box can cost you megga bucks when blow the ECM connecting it.   That minor little arc you get connecting it or jumper cables to the cranking battery is zapping the electrical system with hundreds of volts.  On a bad day, it can destroy some mighty sensitive electronics.

 

This is not limited to just boats, same thing can happen to your vehicle also.  I've been turning wrenches on boat motors and vehicles for over 60 years and can't begin to count the times I've seen this happen.

Plus I've never seen a battery that left you stranded at a good time. 

For no more than a battery cost, I don't need the grief they can cause.  I replace cranking batteries in my boats and vehicles every three years, even if they are supposed to have a seven-year warranty.  If it something that sits unused, it sits on a maintainer.

 

I am not supporting running a questionable starting battery....but things can happen, and a battery can get discharged, or unexpectedly fail while on the water. In that case having a jump box is a life saver.  As AJ pointed out, the jump boxes are not energized (turned on) until AFTER they are connected, and are turned off before they are disconnected, so there is NO chance of an arc, or spark. I strongly recommend against jump-starting a boat battery with jumper cables, due to the possibility of a spark, which can not only damage electronics, but can cause an explosion.

[Kirtley Howe]

52 minutes ago, Chris Catignani said:

How can it produce any more volts than 12 volts?

They cannot produce more than 12 volts. They can, however produce a bunch of amps...but see my answer to Way2Slo about this.

[Chris Catignani]

3 hours ago, A-Jay said:

This unit rides in my boat during open water

and in the truck during hard water.

A-Jay

I really like the NOCO line of products...I have the Genius 10amp 3 bank charger in the boat.

[gim]

2 hours ago, Way2slow said:

even if they are supposed to have a seven-year warranty

Is there a marine battery with a 7 year warranty? That seems like a long time to guarantee a working battery.

[MN Fisher]

14 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Is there a marine battery with a 7 year warranty? That seems like a long time to guarantee a working battery.

For a starting battery? Ya, that's a head scratcher.

 

Lithiums routinely offer 7-8 years - Dakota offers 11 years and AMPS now offers 12 years.

[K1500]

Why not just carry a short set of jumper cables and jump off of your TM batteries in the unlikely instance that your cranking battery dies?

[Kirtley Howe]

7 minutes ago, K1500 said:

Why not just carry a short set of jumper cables and jump off of your TM batteries in the unlikely instance that your cranking battery dies?

As mentioned earlier, the possibility of sparks when jumping from a battery make that a little risky for both you and the motor electronics....and any other electronics on board.

[MN Fisher]

24 minutes ago, K1500 said:

Why not just carry a short set of jumper cables and jump off of your TM batteries in the unlikely instance that your cranking battery dies?

 

15 minutes ago, Kirt Howe said:

As mentioned earlier, the possibility of sparks when jumping from a battery make that a little risky for both you and the motor electronics....and any other electronics on board.

Add to the fact that most people are running Lithium batteries for their TM...and Lithium batteries don't discharge at a rate that'll energize the coil to start a boat motor.

[TnRiver46]

7 hours ago, K1500 said:

Why not just carry a short set of jumper cables and jump off of your TM batteries in the unlikely instance that your cranking battery dies?

I have jumper cables in the boat. And two paddles and some rope haha. Just like the work truck, unplug the two way radio and other accessories before jumping 

[Way2slow]

To clarify a couple points.  I replace the cranking batteries in my "vehicles and boats" every three years.  There are a number of batteries that have three years, free replacement and seven years prorated replacement warranties. 

I did a little research on the arc voltage.  I've always heard it could be as much as 200 volts.  Some automotive research and testing facility says it can be from 25 to 125 volts.  Still high enough to ruin your day under the right circumstances'.

If one on those jump boxes have an on and off switch, yea, that helps.  However as mentioned, it still may not start the motor.  Some of the DFI motors that have electric injectors in them pull massive amounts of current and while the motor may be spinning, the voltage is too low to fire them.  I know for a fact this is the case with Evinrude's.  I owned one for 10 years, and have a couple of occasion's where it would not start because of weak battery, but was cranking over. 

Also understand, information I provide is just that, information.  Much of that information comes from over 60 years experience, and when it comes to electrical, having a degree in electronics helps a little.  If you don't believe it, or don't care, that's strickly up to you.  It's your boat, what you do and how you do it is totally your choice.  As I say, ain't nobody going to tell me what to do with my stuff. 

 

One little trick you can try, if you think 12 volts is just 12 volts and won't hurt you, connect a 12v wire to a 12v starter solenoid/relay and take it back off while touching the terminal.  You ain't gonna want to do it a second time, not after about 300 volts lights you eyeballs up.

[K1500]

Oops, I didn’t read close enough on the first pass about arcing. Is one of the jump boxes like the Noco a safer solution for jumping a truck or boat when sensitive electronics are involved?

[A-Jay]

8 minutes ago, K1500 said:

Oops, I didn’t read close enough on the first pass about arcing. Is one of the jump boxes like the Noco a safer solution for jumping a truck or boat when sensitive electronics are involved?

 

 The Noco unit I use is a Safe and easy-to-use battery jump starter pack without the worry of incorrect connections or sparks.  Safely connect to any 12-volt battery with mistake-proof design featuring spark-proof technology and reverse polarity protection.

 

https://no.co/products/power/boost

 

A-Jay

[TnRiver46]

I’m on year 6 with my exide crank batt. Knock on wood 

[GaryH]

9 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

I’m on year 6 with my exide crank batt. Knock on wood 

I guess you are. You have a pull start.. ????

[cyclops2]

Never with 1986 & 1999Evinrude 2 strokes. Both electric starter. But 1/2 pull after warmed up. 

Alferd E Neuman engines.  ?

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, GaryH said:

I guess you are. You have a pull start.. ????

Haha, I’ve got two boats……

[gim]

16 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

I’m on year 6 with my exide crank batt. Knock on wood 

I just finished year 6 with the original Interstate cranker that came with the boat.

 

I am set on replacing it before spring though. And trailer tires. They both went above and beyond their anticipated lifespan. Enough playing with house money though, it’s time to replace. If I get 5 years out of the next purchase on both, great.

[Jigfishn10]

On 2/11/2022 at 6:31 PM, A-Jay said:

This unit rides in my boat during open water

and in the truck during hard water.

A-Jay

Probably a stupid question but, does this work for lead acid batteries as well as AGM? Does it even matter?