Casting guide placement?

[RipHair]

I was using the Angler's Resource for spinning train reduction but I'm not aware of a similar resource for casting guides. The rod I'm building is 7'0, casting (Shimano Scorpion DC - I think it's like a Curado DC?). Reel top (where the line exits) is 13" from the butt. Guides are RV 6mm, 3 KB 5mm, 5-6 KT 5's then LG 5mm tip top.

 

Without any guide I suppose I just need to ensure that the line coming out of the reel is coming out of the center of the ring on the reel and also coming in centered to the RV, then I guess just make it nice and smooth the rest of the way.

 

Thanks for any tips/advice!

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Put the RV 19-20” from face of reel and static test from there. 

[RipHair]

Just now, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Put the RV 19-20” from face of reel and static test from there. 

 

Hey DVT, I started off at 20" and scooted it back to 24.25" and it seems to be going through the middle of the guide now. Does 24.25" seem entirely reasonable or do you think I'm doing something wrong?

 

I take it I should continue to distance guides 2-3 so the line is centered as well?

[spoonplugger1]

Did you watch the Fuji video? The one I watched also included the cast version of the system.

[RipHair]

Just now, spoonplugger1 said:

Did you watch the Fuji video? The one I watched also included the cast version of the system.

 

I wasn't even aware there was a Fuji video. I did find some documentation on their website but it was all in Japanese.

[Deleted account]

That's a short handle for a 7' stick. I use painters tape to place guides. No guessing, no math. 

[RipHair]

2 hours ago, Deleted account said:

That's a short handle for a 7' stick. I use painters tape to place guides. No guessing, no math. 

Thanks, I have some blue painters tape I can try.

 

Regarding handle length, I searched this forum as best I could for guidance and in the end I just went by feel and not getting hung up in my clothes. I read some people stating "starting at 8" from butt to back of reel seat and shorten from there" if I'm quoting correctly. Mine from butt to back of reel seat measures 10.5". I attached a photo of the rod next to my St Croix Triumph 6'6 casting MH/F rod and it appears my handle is a tad longer.

 

This rod won't be used for hauling heavy lures so I don't really need the leverage. It will mostly be used for plastics/TRigs, so will probably be one-handed casting mostly.

 

Curious what would your handle length recommendation be?

 

 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

15 hours ago, RipHair said:

 

Hey DVT, I started off at 20" and scooted it back to 24.25" and it seems to be going through the middle of the guide now. Does 24.25" seem entirely reasonable or do you think I'm doing something wrong?

 

I take it I should continue to distance guides 2-3 so the line is centered as well?

You’re hung up on center of guide. The line is going to touch guide rings during casts no matter what. I wouldn’t push the stripper beyond 20” in this case unless it was intended for a large, high reel like am Ambassaduer 6500.  There is a video for KH casting guides on anglers resource. If I remember it will suggest the same or similar as I have. 

[spoonplugger1]

Go to the Anglers Resource site, scroll to the bottom of the page, select videos on bottom left, there is a half dozen or so there. In essence, you don't need to space the guide differently, it is a lighter weight solution to the height problem, where they found a normal 10 mm was the best first guide choice, they needed the max height of the 10 mm to get the minimum height necessary of the line and guide ring off the blank. Remember gravity is effecting everthing, nothing will run on center. Where the guide goes therefore shouldn't change.

[RipHair]

I think I see the video, about 60% through he talks about spinning and at one point he talks about the first stripper guide going somewhere between 19" and 22".

 

I also somehow skipped this: https://anglersresource.net/static-load-tutorial/ which makes it pretty clear that I was completely overthinking this whole shebang.

 

Thanks for the help - almost through my first build!

[Chris Catignani]

On 1/18/2022 at 9:55 PM, RipHair said:

I think I see the video, about 60% through he talks about spinning and at one point he talks about the first stripper guide going somewhere between 19" and 22".

What I usually do is set the first guide from the tip (at 10cm) and then the butt guide around 55 cm from the reel.

As I work in the rest of the progression...I may adjust the butt guide at little.

The butt being between 19" and 22" is a good spot.

[cyclops2]

Is the rod & reel balanced ?

[RipHair]

46 minutes ago, cyclops2 said:

Is the rod & reel balanced ?

Do you mean for reel seat placement so the rod balances nicely when your hand is on the reel or do you mean is the size of the reel balanced with the power of the rod?

[cyclops2]

Balance when holding the rod to cast. I am a Ming The Merciless on that adjustment.

[RipHair]

Seems OK I suppose. I haven't really casted with it or with a 7' rod for that matter but I guess I should maybe just finish up this rod and see how it feels before setting up the other 2 blanks I got.

 

How do you measure the balance? Do you go by feel or do you actually get the rod to balance horizontally when holding it at the reel position? The the latter then I feel as though the reel seat would have to be mighty far up there to get to that!

[MickD]

Most rods, especially longer more powerful rods will end up tip heavy.  You can put the reel farther from the butt to try to get better balance, but go too far and you have an ergonomics problem.  I never add weight, build for lightest reasonable weight,  and build for best ergonomics and let the balance do what it will do.  

 

 

[RipHair]

Started on static load testing and indeed I didn't have enough guides (I actually lost 1 guide somewhere during the move).

 

For this 7' rod, I followed Batson's video and placed my RV at 24" from the center of the reel seat instead of 20" like for spinning guides. During a 60deg load test my 2 KB's and 6 KTs' aren't enough so I'll probably add another KB and maybe a KT as well.

[Lyman X]

You have a very experienced builder tell you to put the butt guide 20" out 3 times, so you put it at 24".  Why ask?

[RipHair]

Hey Lyman X, I should have updated the thread that I ended up putting it at 20". Right when I posted the last post I felt as though I didn't have enough KTs and KBs so tried to compensate by pushing the RV to 24". I ended up getting more KTs and KBs like I posted in my final rod building thread and I re-did my static load test I was able to get everything good with the RV at 20".

 

Thanks for calling me out on this.

[Lyman X]

Must have read your post at a bad time Lol didn't mean to be harsh.  Ya done good!

[Chris Catignani]

So...I know this is a little late...but one thing you can (could have) done is use a higher framed guide.

Im talking about getting the line in the middle of the guide at 20ish inch mark. Though truthfully I dont think it matters that much...maybe a little.

[spoonplugger1]

Rip Hair,

There really isn't a right answer, so many people see things from so many viewpoints and experiences. Myself I look at how a blank is made, how it bends and where than start from there. Some people set the stripper guide and tip guide at a certain distance from the reel, or tip top than fill in the blank between. Both rods will fish. 

Myself I notice that there is quite a distance at the tip of all blanks that doesn't bend much and since we are primarily installing guides to protect the blank, and since we have a criteria in our heads on how we want to set up the rest of the guide train, why do we change that criteria for that first and last guide without a good reason for doing so? Something we know, not something we were told, or accepted without asking why it needs to be that way. The way rods have been built has changed so much in the last 50 years, minds have been changed so many times, myself I can't accept this is the last change, like all changes before someone was thinking outside the box, till it became the box.