Aquatic Vegetation Question

[LrgmouthShad]

Hey ya'll,

 

Last night I was continuing watching YouTube's coverage of the 2021 Bassmaster Elite on Guntersville. The commentators often talked about the milfoil on guntersville, and how many anglers were fishing remains of it on Guntersville as a good amount of the lake is being taken over by eelgrass. One commentator - it might have been Zona - said that a reason many anglers had a preference for milfoil is because it tends to grow on a harder bottom than some other forms of aquatic vegetation. I can recall fishing on Oneida and discovering that some good locations - at least for largemouth - on this grass infested lake with lots of eelgrass, were where there was a mix of aquatic vegetation in the area, often milfoil and eelgrass with some rocky bottom forming a grass line. Taking all this into account, here are my questions. Is there such a thing as a hierarchy of grass types in a lake in order of bass preference? Is harder bottom always better when it comes to grass? What grasses are the hardest to fish in and how well do they hold bass? What grasses do you prefer to fish in the most? 

 

Watching several anglers fishing the grass, I learned a thing or two about grass fishing with texas rigs offshore.

[WRB]

Using the term grass for all aquatic plants in general is a meaningless regional term.

Some aquatic plants don’t have soil rooted systems and form a canopy or floating mat. Some stem aquatic plants prefer mud soil like Lilly pads. Coontail grows in clumps with hollow pathways.

Milfoil has roots and can grow in sandy soil, eel grass is a long thin rooted plant that grows is mixture sand and soil.  

Hydrilla is very similar to Milfoil except has more canopy and less dense stem growth.

IMO bass prefer canopy plants with fewer or no stems for ease of swimming through or under neath the plants. 

Areas where 2 or more types of plants are growing from edges or pockets for bass to hunt prey.

The study of fresh water aquatic plants predominate where you fish is very helpful.

Tom

 

[TnRiver46]

People don’t like eel grass mostly because it breaks loose and is floating everywhere, making fishing nearly impossible with any lures 

[T-Billy]

I don't know about a hierarchy, but I like areas where a couple different kinds of vegetation mix. Milfoil is dominant in our lakes, and places where hydrilla, coontail, or broadleaf pondweed mix with it are high percentage spots. Especially if it's just small isolated patches of a different weed mixed in sporadically.

[Catt]

4 hours ago, LrgmouthShad said:

Is harder bottom always better when it comes to grass

 

Harder bottom is always better regardless of cover. 

 

Fish the structure not the grass!

[cyclops2]

We had a 12" to 18 " tall grass on the bay bottom for decades. More fish of all types provided food for ALL BIG fish. When that grass disappeared.  So did almost all fish.

 

Oh well

[padon]

what catt said can be misleading  if you dont understand it. so lets say you have a 100 yard stretch of bank evenly sloping to 25 feet. the milfoil or whatever grows to about 17 feet. where do you start? you happen to look at a map and notice one little section that runs at 12 feet for longer than the other 12 foot breakline so it forms a little underwater point. then drops off steeply to 25 feet.Thats your structure. the milfoil  is the cover on that structure and much more likely to hold fish than the rest of that bank.

[cyclops2]

Web search 

Canada reveals that the Ell Grass Is being mowed down by the European green Crab & Slime Mold.  BINGO on my dying fishing area.  That fantastic green rug that provided everything to " Good Old Days ".

[GRiver]

The ell grass and Lilly pads are scarce here on the north end of lake George. The fishing sure has been hurt because of it too. I go to the Ocklawaha and Bear creek to  see any Lily pads. 
used to be able to work a fluke type bait around the mouth of salt run through the ell grass and catch bass, but now the

ell grass is gone.

[cyclops2]

You jogged my old memory. We have lost almost every Lilly in 1 corner of our bay

 

But there are still LOADS clogging around our docks. They are fine with all the septic tank sludge in that area.

 

City water & sewage are wiping out lots of areas. The man made beautiful Ell Grass beds of fishing.

 

 

[WRB]

What is Ell grass? I believe it’s Eelgrass you all are referring to.

Tom

[GRiver]

Your right…. my miss spellings ..

[cyclops2]

Eel grass.  Old brain & lazy spell check.     

[geo g]

On the topic of grasses and pads. 

1). I always look for areas with two or more grasses combined, rather then just one type.

2). The greener the grass the better especially during summer.

3). During cooler times I will look for edges.   Sharp edges usually mean a significant bottom change, often with a ledge.  Bass will often move deeper to the bottom of a ledge because water is constantly seeping through from the Aquafer at a constant 72*.  They will still stay close to the veggies for hunting and ambush.

4). On flats an isolated clump of vegetation is better then a large mass of weeds.  The isolated clump will draw bass from a surrounding area to it.  The large mass will have bass scattered throughout and not concentrated in any one area.

5). Always look for any sudden movement in the emerged weeds or grasses that are not caused by normal conditions.  Often a grass moving against the wind, or a sudden motion means something is alive there.  In Florida beside fish, gators, turtles, and snakes will be easily detected when the grass moves.

6). Sudden changes in the type of cover often means a change in bottom type.  This often happens on lakes like Okeechobee. that will go from rock bottom, to muck, to pure white sand bottom.  Different bottoms, different grasses. 

 

Good luck and I hope this helps a little.

[Catt]

5 hours ago, geo g said:

On the topic of grasses and pads. 

 

1, 3, 4 & 6 is describing structure 

 

1: changes in bottom composition 

3: depth changes 

4: flat

6: changes in bottom composition 

 

Yes changes in bottom is structure 

 

Every year the overall shape of the "grass" area will change but the structure (bottom) will not change.

[N Florida Mike]

The fish adapt to whatever grass/aquatic weeds are there. In my home lake, it’s primarily eel grass. The fish relate to it big-time. They are in it and around it consistently. We did have more Niad, and they related to it as well.But as it’s been said, the edges of it tend to be along drop offs, which hold fish. We used to have a lot of cattails and the bass related to it, esp. in bedding season. I do very well in Maiden cane as well.  Pads are the same- I dont care to fish them as much though .Any kind of grass / weeds will hold food source, ambush opportunities and bass feel safer there themselves from predators. 

The bass will use whatever is available. If there are multiple options in grass/ weeds, you have to find which one they are relating to that day for whatever reason. The edges , isolated patches, and holes in it, and other structure attached to it just enhance your chances of catching fish. 

[Catt]

1 hour ago, N Florida Mike said:

I do very well in Maiden cane as well.

 

We have quite a bit of that along with roseau cane, commonly known as giant reed. 

 

Crawfish love that stuff ?

 

[geo g]

18 hours ago, Catt said:

 

1, 3, 4 & 6 is describing structure 

 

1: changes in bottom composition 

3: depth changes 

4: flat

6: changes in bottom composition 

 

Yes changes in bottom is structure 

 

Every year the overall shape of the "grass" area will change but the structure (bottom) will not change.

 
with regard to your response, 1,3,4,6 were all focusing on the grasses and not on the structure.  Certain grasses matriculate in certain bottom types.  While fishing look for these signals.  When I talked about edges, I’m talking about defined weed edges.  I know the difference between the two.  Look at the grasses and the signals they give and your odds increase.  

[Catt]

6 hours ago, geo g said:

1,3,4,6 were all focusing on the grasses and not on the structure

 

Uhh excuse me but if not for the structure the grass wouldn't be there & the bass certainly wouldn't be there.

 

Y'all need a refresher course in "structure"!

 

6 hours ago, geo g said:

I’m talking about defined weed edges.  I know the difference between the two.

 

Breaklines!

 

[padon]

1 hour ago, Catt said:

 

Uhh excuse me but if not for the structure the grass wouldn't be there & the bass certainly wouldn't be there.

 

Y'all need a refresher course in "structure"!

 

 

Breaklines!

 

buck perry needs to chime in.lol

[geo g]

5 hours ago, padon said:

buck perry needs to chime in.lol

 

 

 

Yes I agree they exist together and one depends on the other.  But when out on the water grasses and weeds that are visible to the naked eye they can key you in on the other, and give you valuable information that you can use to catch fish.  I have been doing this as long as you have and don't need any lessons on their differences.  I supplied information to help others, take it or leave it, its as simple as that!

[Choporoz]

On 1/16/2022 at 3:33 PM, TnRiver46 said:

People don’t like eel grass mostly because it breaks loose and is floating everywhere, making fishing nearly impossible with any lures 

Was not familiar with eel grass, since there is none on my 'home waters', but I fished Guntersville in October a couple years ago and some areas were truly painful to try to fish....maddening

[TnRiver46]

27 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

Was not familiar with eel grass, since there is none on my 'home waters', but I fished Guntersville in October a couple years ago and some areas were truly painful to try to fish....maddening

That’s exactly where 100% of the complaints I’ve heard come from

[cyclops2]

No weed areas ?  No cycle of water life. Watery deserts are not productive.

 

I am impossible to please.  20 years ago.

 

Too many thick weedy areas !!

 

 

[padon]

7 hours ago, geo g said:

 

 

 

Yes I agree they exist together and one depends on the other.  But when out on the water grasses and weeds that are visible to the naked eye they can key you in on the other, and give you valuable information that you can use to catch fish.  I have been doing this as long as you have and don't need any lessons on their differences.  I supplied information to help others, take it or leave it, its as simple as that!

take it easy chief . i got no problem with what you said. just thought it was funny that for all the modern tools , studies electronics etc we have it all comes back to what buck found out years ago trolling a metal spoon.