Frustrating to say the least

[Allaroundfishing]

Im sitting at my desk tying up some jigs and as per usual just watching some Youtube in the background (fishing of course) and this particular video is a video of some highschool anglers who are fishing a tournament on one of my "home" lakes. As i'm listening to them talking while fishing the one angler mentions several times about practice fish which in even in high school circuits is allowed but there are some rules to it, each organization is different but from my recollection when I was fishing high school the Boat captain wasn't allowed to officially practice for the tournament without his anglers being with him.

However as the video goes on one of the anglers says "so when you were practicing here is this one of the spots where you sent me the pics of the fish"

and then several minutes later at a different spot he asks the boat captain "is this is the point you caught the big one off last week".

So I would have to assume that the kids were not fishing with him while he practiced for the tournament. Obviously we all know what assuming makes you but with the language used its pretty indicative they were unable to practice with their boat captain. As i mentioned earlier I fished in highschool as well as a matter of fact the first time I ever bass fished was in 2017 when I was a sophomore in highschool, I practiced with my partner and boat captain for almost every tournament the weekend before if possible and if not possible we just showed up and fished, no skipping school or leaving classes early I just played the cards I was dealt.

My whole point about this rant is that I feel its not only unfair to the kids who parents or boat captain cant afford or unable to take them to practice for a tournament but its also unfair to these young anglers. They obviously have a skilled boat captain who was able to put in the time and money into practicing and providing them the ability to fish but with that comes the fact that the kids just showed up and used what he told them and where he took them. Sure they could have learned from their day of fishing but at the end of the day their captain was telling them what to throw and where while also taking them to spots that he found, Obviously its 10x harder to try to get on the water while you're still in school but the fact that their tournament day was more of a guide trip and less of a learning experience for the kids involved through no fault of their own.

  Perhaps i'm just a little salty because I was regularly fishing these tournaments against kids who parents were local sticks who could take 2-3 days off to practice for their kids tournaments. Im just curious what others might think of this...

oh and no practice didnt keep me from winning two state championships and a trip to the nattys

[Big Hands]

They should be following the rules. They are there for all, and are intended to make it as fair as possible for everyone. I'd be salty too. Not too bright of them to put up a YT video that all but incriminates them.

[Sphynx]

20 minutes ago, Big Hands said:

They should be following the rules. They are there for all, and are intended to make it as fair as possible for everyone. I'd be salty too. Not too bright of them to put up a YT video that all but incriminates them.

You would be astonished at the number of immoral and worse, illegal, activities that get published on social media, sometimes I think that people's brains are often wired in reverse with facetweetgram, they turn the social media on, brain goes off.

[MN Fisher]

10 minutes ago, Sphynx said:

You would be astonished at the number of immoral and worse, illegal, activities that get published on social media, sometimes I think that people's brains are often wired in reverse with facetweetgram, they turn the social media on, brain goes off.

They want their 15 minutes of fame...now-days, it's stuff like this that gets it.

 

Like that group of fishermen who made a name for themselves by doing crap like this.

[cheezyridr]

2 hours ago, Allaroundfishing said:

in 2017 when I was a sophomore in highschool

 

holy cow ?

[Big Hands]

3 minutes ago, cheezyridr said:

 

holy cow ?

Savage.

 

Truthfully though, he has something that is supremely valuable that no one on the face of the earth can buy. Enjoy it while you have it.

[CrashVector]

2 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

They want their 15 minutes of fame...now-days, it's stuff like this that gets it.

 

Like that group of fishermen who made a name for themselves by doing crap like this.

Referencing to "goo" bags?

[Choporoz]

I missed the part in the OP that says they posted video of prohibited or illegal activities. 

 

  I may be misinterpreting, but I see the primary point is that the captain may be ethically challenged, resulting in harm to the overall competition and depriving his students of learning and improving opportunities. 

  Do you agree?  Or is winning (within the rules) more important than even competition and learning/improving?

[gim]

Sounds like the rules have been broken from the description given by the OP.  You could ban pre-fishing completely since the participants should technically be in class anyways, but then others will likely be pre-fishing for them and offer the information ahead of time anyways.  There's always a loop hole it seems.  I heard at one point a famous NFL quarterback deflated the footballs to gain a competitive advantage too...

[GaryH]

Just like in money tournaments. Lie detector test. It’s a shame that it comes down to that. Sounds like some are teaching the upcoming generations that cheating the rules is ok if you can win. ????

 

[MN Fisher]

2 minutes ago, GaryH said:

Just like in money tournaments. Lie detector test. It’s a shame that it comes down to that.

I just shake my head at all the reliance on lie detector testing. From the APA

 

"For now, although the idea of a lie detector may be comforting, the most practical advice is to remain skeptical about any conclusion wrung from a polygraph."

 

https://www.apa.org/research/action/polygraph

[cyclops2]

They are large children playing. And being paid to do that.  Cheating is allowed.  Collect ALL the biggest fish from their BEST places.  Then dump them all in 1 spot. Do it only at the best fishing places around the world.  Elite fishing.

 

 

[Logan S]

Take a step back for a second...You say that every trail has their own rules (which is accurate) and that this trail is not the one you participated in.  So its entirely possible that these anglers were 100% within the rules of their trail. 

 

There's nothing inherently unethical in what I read in the post, HS fishing is not the Elite Series - There's got to be some provisions in there to allow the boat captains to provide some help/info to the anglers.  That's sort of the point of the whole boat captain system, right?  Also, you'd think if they put a public video out there they wouldn't do so if it showed them violating rules.

 

The boat captain is an angler himself too, he could have been practicing for his own tournament or just fishing on his own.  You can't expect these guys to be locked down outside HS events or no one would ever volunteer to do it.  

 

Finally, if you're going to keep tournament fishing you have to get used to this type of thing.  There will ALWAYS be someone that gets more practice time than you and/or obtains information/locations from others (99% of the time with in the rules too)...If this situation gets to you, wait until one of the guys you're competing against starts hiring a guide the day before the tournament ?.

 

As sort of a separate point, I personally think high school bass fishing is insanely unfair overall...Not by design or anything, but just due to the fact that some HS anglers will have clear advantages over others if their dad/relative/friend/etc in an avid angler with a bass boat and is their captain for so many obvious reasons. Nothing can really be done about it, just the way it is.  

[TOXIC]

When I was guiding I regularly captained for a high school fishing team.  Rules were pretty clear, all I did was drive the boat.  Stop where they wanted to fish and then drive them to their next spot.  As a guide, I could have given a pretty unfair advantage.  Now, when prefishing I could give tips but tournament day it was a draw system for the boat captains so you never knew who was going to be in your boat.  

[Allaroundfishing]

25 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

When I was guiding I regularly captained for a high school fishing team.  Rules were pretty clear, all I did was drive the boat.  Stop where they wanted to fish and then drive them to their next spot.  As a guide, I could have given a pretty unfair advantage.  Now, when prefishing I could give tips but tournament day it was a draw system for the boat captains so you never knew who was going to be in your boat.  

Yes every tournament trail I fished with a boat Captain was allowed to offer up options or give advice but not supposed to be the one making the decisions on where to fish or what to throw, in several instances he very clearly was telling them what to throw or getting them a different colored worm out or even tying on lures for them which is 100% against the rules, it’s more frustrating knowing that these kids are out there to compete and unknowingly their captain is giving them an advantage over others, obviously the execution is down to them and throughout the day they post fish that might have positioned them better but more so it’s shame on the boat captain because if they were to get in trouble it would be on the kids and not the captain

1 hour ago, Logan S said:

Take a step back for a second...You say that every trail has their own rules (which is accurate) and that this trail is not the one you participated in.  So its entirely possible that these anglers were 100% within the rules of their trail. 

 

There's nothing inherently unethical in what I read in the post, HS fishing is not the Elite Series - There's got to be some provisions in there to allow the boat captains to provide some help/info to the anglers.  That's sort of the point of the whole boat captain system, right?  Also, you'd think if they put a public video out there they wouldn't do so if it showed them violating rules.

 

The boat captain is an angler himself too, he could have been practicing for his own tournament or just fishing on his own.  You can't expect these guys to be locked down outside HS events or no one would ever volunteer to do it.  

 

Finally, if you're going to keep tournament fishing you have to get used to this type of thing.  There will ALWAYS be someone that gets more practice time than you and/or obtains information/locations from others (99% of the time with in the rules too)...If this situation gets to you, wait until one of the guys you're competing against starts hiring a guide the day before the tournament ?.

 

As sort of a separate point, I personally think high school bass fishing is insanely unfair overall...Not by design or anything, but just due to the fact that some HS anglers will have clear advantages over others if their dad/relative/friend/etc in an avid angler with a bass boat and is their captain for so many obvious reasons. Nothing can really be done about it, just the way it is.  

I did participate in this tournament trail However I’m not sure if In the last two years they have changed the rules about what boat captains are allowed to do, there were several more instances where he was tying on baits for them or telling them what baits to throw where, which technically it’s not against the rules but the kids are supposed to be making their own decisions on the water. As for the captain tying on lures for the kids it’s definitely not allowed as the anglers are supposed to be able to make changes and adjustments themselves, the only exception is if the boat captain has to pick out a backlash or tie a knot the angler who he’s helping must sit in the boat and not fish. However in the video the captain was grabbing rods and retying while both kids are fishing. I fished high school for 2 years and I understand that stuff like this is going to happen and that most of the time the kids who won the local event 9 times outta 10 had a hired captain to take them out, it’s part of the sport but I sure wish the captains would take some accountability and do the ethical and responsible thing. It’s pretty clear however ethics and responsibility is a dying breed now

[Allaroundfishing]

5 hours ago, Choporoz said:

I missed the part in the OP that says they posted video of prohibited or illegal activities. 

 

  I may be misinterpreting, but I see the primary point is that the captain may be ethically challenged, resulting in harm to the overall competition and depriving his students of learning and improving opportunities. 

  Do you agree?  Or is winning (within the rules) more important than even competition and learning/improving?

That was my point though long winded and a rant the anglers who are out there to compete and get better don’t get much out of a tournament where they had little to no part in making the decisions for the day. I have no Ill will towards the anglers or boat captain I just feel as though rules were bent or broken in an attempt to help the anglers win 

[TOXIC]

It’s very hard not to help when they are in your boat but rules are rules.  Many times I would have the same anglers in my boat that I took out to practice.  They would tear them up in practice and then struggle tournament day.  I would also give seminars at their meetings and I preached that you have to fish the same way tournament day that you did in practice.  When tournament day rolled around, they would fish twice as fast, tie on twice as many lures and move twice as many times.  They didn’t even realize what they were doing. I gave the same speel to regular tournament guys who hired me to prefish.  

[Allaroundfishing]

1 minute ago, TOXIC said:

It’s very hard not to help when they are in your boat but rules are rules.  Many times I would have the same anglers in my boat that I took out to practice.  They would tear them up in practice and then struggle tournament day.  I would also give seminars at their meetings and I preached that you have to fish the same way tournament day that you did in practice.  When tournament day rolled around, they would fish twice as fast, tie on twice as many lures and move twice as many times.  They didn’t even realize what they were doing. I gave the same speel to regular tournament guys who hired me to prefish.  

Yea I’ve captained 4 tournaments since I graduated and it’s so hard to sit in a seat for 7 hrs and keep your mouth shut  but like you said rules are rules and if you’re gonna break em… Turn the dang go pro off!

[TnRiver46]

Some pros put in more practice and homework than others. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn’t.

 

I would imagine that not a single bass tournament is a completely even playing field

 

if you think you can win, lay down the cash and give it a shot. It seems that simple to me

[Choporoz]

44 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

 

I would imagine that not a single bass tournament is a completely even playing field

I don't know if they still do it, but last winter I was watching rerun of a tourny (MLF, maybe) where the pros didn't know where they were fishing until hours or days prior.  Seemed a cool concept.   Maybe BASS should try to recreate the earliest tournament, with surprise lake in identical boats.   I'd watch.

[cyclops2]

The best BASS CATCHERS in the world...............Need a PRACTICE DAY ????

 

That is really a catch some & dump them in a secret location...................DUUUUH

[Tennessee Boy]

There is a difference between cheating and fairness.   I don't know what the rules are but they should be followed.  I have no tolerance for cheaters.   

 

As for fairness,  there's no such thing.  When you enter a tournament you will face people that have had more prefishing time,  more experience on the lake,  have faster boats,  better electronics.  Let's remember that the goal should be to catch fish.  I've never cared for rules that kept people from fishing in the name of fairness.  If we're fishing a tournament against each other on Saturday and you can take off to pre-fish on Friday,  good for you.  I hope you catch a 25lb bag come Saturday and I'll do what I can to catch 26lbs.  Now if we're talking the Bassmaster Classic, that might be different. High school fishing and club level fishing should be more about having fun and catching fish.

[CrashVector]

"clout fishermen" annoy me.

[cyclops2]

Pro fishing contests are sponsored & run by BUSINESS COMPANIES.  To increase THEIR SALES.   Anything they can think of to increase sales is perfectly O K.

 

Fair play is not required. Increasing sales is.

They even require a ENTRANCE FEE ?????  Operating a gambling casino on the water ?

 

I accept it for what it is.  A gambling operation to increase buying new fishing and boat equipment every year.

[TnRiver46]

3 hours ago, cyclops2 said:

Pro fishing contests are sponsored & run by BUSINESS COMPANIES.  To increase THEIR SALES.   Anything they can think of to increase sales is perfectly O K.

 

Fair play is not required. Increasing sales is.

They even require a ENTRANCE FEE ?????  Operating a gambling casino on the water ?

 

I accept it for what it is.  A gambling operation to increase buying new fishing and boat equipment every year.

I doubt anyone would show up to set up the stage and weigh fish if they weren’t making money. This is America after all, Lots of floating casinos in this country.