First Rod Build Help: 3pc for mostly light worm use

[MickD]

I've not bent a lot of guides in that way, a few, and the wraps have never come loose.  On single foot guides I use a locking loop finish on the wrap which may make a difference.  On bending a guide that seems like the highest stress point on the wrap.

 

There are experts who maintain there is no difference; I think they are wrong. 

 

Regardless, for the way I treat my rods, and for those I've built for, regular thread with CP works just fine.  And of course, without CP will work fine if you can get the color you want.

[Chris Catignani]

1 hour ago, MickD said:

I've not bent a lot of guides in that way, a few, and the wraps have never come loose. 

I think the guides I've seen come out weren't wrapped with very much tension in the first place.

 

[RipHair]

https://mudhole.com/products/extreme-reamer?variant=34416780214405

 

Not sure if there's a typo here but looks like there is a gap between 0.475" to 0.495" where the others have overlap. This exact table with the gap is replicated across all retailers as well so either it's true or all retailers copied a typo.

 

From my blank, 0.480" is a possible diameter based on where I want my reel placed.

[RipHair]

I think I will make these 2 rods casting rods as mudhole is out of stock on 2 guides I need for spinning. Is the recommendation to use LKW to 3*KB + 4*KT? I think @MickD mentioned that he prefers RV instead of LKW but it seems to be much higher? My casting reels are Shimano Scorpion DC and Abu Revo STX.

[RipHair]

Is there any difference between RV and LRV Fuji guides? I was planning on doing RV 6mm to 3 x KB 4mm, 5 x KT 4mm.

 

Also, for tip-top for the casting, is it OK to go with LG 4mm (it's listed as spin only) or must you go MN or F?

[MickD]

For my cast I always use the RV then KB's and KT's.  Looks like the RV is lower, so I would think line slap on the blank might be more of an issue, but I don't really know.  What I do know is that the RV6 works fine.

 

Many builders use the LKW for the first guide, in size 10 to get the height right.  Works fine.

 

Size 4 is pretty small for cast, in my opinion.  The reason for going really small is for sensitivity and possibly (it's debatable) a little casting distance.  The difference between 4's and 5.5's for sensitivity and casting distance has to be very small, most likely negligible.  But the passage of knots through them is a different story, with the 5.5's being more forgiving of bigger knots.  I use 4's on spin where I use no higher than 15 pound leaders with braid, but 5.5's on cast where I go up to 20 or 25.  If you have confidence in the FG knot, fine, but I don't.  I've had too many fail.  I use an Alberto with two half hitches of the braid tag end added.  I also don't fish when the water is freezing so I don't worry about very small guides icing up, but if you plan to fish that cold I would recommend going larger than 4's.

 

I would order an extra KT in case you find that with the fast tip you want more than the traditional 8 guides for a 7 foot rod.  I always seem to want one more guide.  

 

The LG tiptop will work fine.

 

 

[RipHair]

Thanks Mick and good suggestion bumping up to 5.5 for this rod and also getting extra KTs. Too bad these manufacturers don't specify I.D. instead of using O.D. for guide sizing - I just don't see how O.D. matters for any sort of consideration.

[MickD]

30 minutes ago, RipHair said:

Thanks Mick and good suggestion bumping up to 5.5 for this rod and also getting extra KTs. Too bad these manufacturers don't specify I.D. instead of using O.D. for guide sizing - I just don't see how O.D. matters for any sort of consideration.

 It's just an old convention, not sure how it got started.  Sort of like the descriptions of action which use "speed" terms, slow-fast-moderate fast-etc.  That started with the bamboo tapers. 

 

Here is an article that should be of interest to new builders.  https://www.rodbuilding.org/library/waterfree.html

 

I scrub the ID's of reel seats using a shotgun cleaning rod section in a drill driver with Scotchbrite in the slot used for patches.  The forum which is the basis for this article/library is a very good one.  Other good articles are at https://www.rodbuilding.org/library/library.html  I print out the article "Eliminate Broken Rods" for anyone I build a rod for.

[RipHair]

Mudhole package arrived with all the components. I only got a Large size reamer so I plan to use a drill to open up the butt and rest of the stuff. Hopefully I can get the butt, real seat on today and start on the wraps tomorrow once dry.

 

Unfortunately, I ordered the exact size tip-tops 1.8mm and 2.2mm and they don't fit. It seems as though the tip-tops are rated to their O.D not I.D. Unsure if I should try to open them a bit to fit or wait another week for replacements. Any advice?

[RipHair]

Mudhole package arrived with all the components. I only got a Large size reamer so I plan to use a drill to open up the butt and rest of the stuff. Hopefully I can get the butt, real seat on today and start on the wraps tomorrow once dry.

 

Unfortunately, I ordered the exact size tip-tops 1.8mm and 2.2mm and they don't fit. It seems as though the tip-tops are rated to their O.D not I.D. Unsure if I should try to open them a bit to fit or wait another week for replacements. Any advice?

 

Update:

 

Using the Fuji fighting butts - they were a bit of a pain to ream - had to drill using 3/8" then 1/2" bit to be able to get my L size reamer in to grid it larger. I didn't end up making it perfectly centered so if I roll my end piece and the butt on the floor there's a bit of unevenness.

 

Used UB40 and got the arbors in the split reel seat components and the butt is on both rods (SB841-3 and SB843-3). Butts were much smaller than I was envisioning but I'm actually happy with them.

 

Will try to dry-fit the reel seats tomorrow after this UB40 cures. Spinning rod (SB841-3) will be used weightless worms, so plenty of fancy precision casting, will prob put the reel up around 9" so the butt is ~2" short of my elbow. Basically wanna get it as far up the rod as I can without the butt catching in my clothes. Same will go for the SB843-3 (casting) I think.

 

For thread I got Fuji Ultra Size A Chestnut and Goldenrod.

[Chris Catignani]

On 1/16/2022 at 7:39 PM, RipHair said:

Unsure if I should try to open them a bit to fit or wait another week for replacements. Any advice?

 

For thread I got Fuji Ultra Size A Chestnut and Goldenrod.

Advice: Get the right size tip. Here is something I do for tips. I will scuff the blank a little with the green scouring pad...and I will also use a small file for inside the tip tube...then I glue it on with the darker (brown) hot melt glue.

 

You may find that using the "A" thread is a little difficult...as compared to "D".

[cyclops2]

I had to reread the topic after all the posts...Old brain.

I have developed a simple 2 step " design sequence " when I want a new rod.  

1  Most powerful fish I am going to muscle AWAY FROM SNAGS with  a leader. 

2 It must be fully convertible fot use as a fly or spin rod.

3 Lures only. Or bait only.  Or both. Which is impossible from the shore. pick 1 only.

4  Admit that S S tip guides will always have a groove if 4# mono is used. Replaced enough. The extreme PSI on such tiny areas WILL WILL cut each other.

5 Butt guide DOES NOT have any real friction loads. with any type of reel.

 6 I have last 3 rods that have grooved tips.  What tips have those large goofy plastic inserts. They never get grooved. That TIP GUIDE  is the most important part of the rod.  If you are a lean back & keep the rod bent a lot.

 

 

[Alex from GA]

I'm a little late but I use Minima or SSR guides for light weight with a ceramic tip top.  I'll use the high guide on the first one and lower ones on the rest.  I also like the CRB Comfort Palm Swell Spinning Reel Seat for a comfortable reel seat.  I have a couple of rods, spinning and casting under 3 oz.

[RipHair]

I haven't finished my first casting rod yet that will be used mostly for throwing texas rigs but as I mentioned before I placed the reel seat so the trigger is 10" from the end of the butt. I think some mentioned it is too short but I feel as though it's a good length so it doesn't get caught in my shirt. I'm about to place reel seats on 2 more 7'0 rods, one spinning and one casting. These will also be used for light finesse fishing, mostly weightless worms, etc.. Before I set them, would be curious to know how far up others put their reel seats.

 

My St Croix Triumph 6'6 MH/F casting rod has its trigger at 9.5" so mine in effect is 0.5" farther up towards the tip.

On 1/24/2022 at 10:05 PM, Chris Catignani said:

Advice: Get the right size tip. Here is something I do for tips. I will scuff the blank a little with the green scouring pad...and I will also use a small file for inside the tip tube...then I glue it on with the darker (brown) hot melt glue.

 

You may find that using the "A" thread is a little difficult...as compared to "D".

Thanks for your advice. I did the same when gluing my tips except that I used UB40 rod glue as I didn't have that glue stick.

 

Guess I'll find out about the threads the hard way - I don't have any "D" size!

On 1/25/2022 at 11:44 AM, cyclops2 said:

I had to reread the topic after all the posts...Old brain.

I have developed a simple 2 step " design sequence " when I want a new rod.  

1  Most powerful fish I am going to muscle AWAY FROM SNAGS with  a leader. 

2 It must be fully convertible fot use as a fly or spin rod.

3 Lures only. Or bait only.  Or both. Which is impossible from the shore. pick 1 only.

4  Admit that S S tip guides will always have a groove if 4# mono is used. Replaced enough. The extreme PSI on such tiny areas WILL WILL cut each other.

5 Butt guide DOES NOT have any real friction loads. with any type of reel.

 6 I have last 3 rods that have grooved tips.  What tips have those large goofy plastic inserts. They never get grooved. That TIP GUIDE  is the most important part of the rod.  If you are a lean back & keep the rod bent a lot.

 

 

Did you find that alconite and torzite are prone to grooving? I don't think I'd go as low as 4# test but may go as low as 6# or 8# FC. Also agreed re: power. Thankfully, when I'm not fishing the deep south, I don't have too much bad cover.

20 hours ago, Alex from GA said:

I'm a little late but I use Minima or SSR guides for light weight with a ceramic tip top.  I'll use the high guide on the first one and lower ones on the rest.  I also like the CRB Comfort Palm Swell Spinning Reel Seat for a comfortable reel seat.  I have a couple of rods, spinning and casting under 3 oz.

Thanks, I'll keep those in mind when building more rods. Regarding weight, I'm nearly done my first build so I'm quite curious to know how much it'll weigh.

[Chris Catignani]

45 minutes ago, RipHair said:

Thanks for your advice. I did the same when gluing my tips except that I used UB40 rod glue as I didn't have that glue stick.

Heres the thing about the tips...It is by far the most replaced guide for repairs. That being said...you will eventually need to get it off. Using the hot melt makes it easy to remove. Just remove the thread (if any) and hit it with a lighter....it could prove more difficult if you use epoxy.