Deeper Crankbaiting, Rods, Reels, Lures, Kayaks

[Cdn Angler]

I'm no pro, so bare with me. 

 

I started off as a crankbait fisherman as it was simple and caught fish, but this was exclusively shallow diving cranks.  I'd throw these small/light baits on a spinning reel on 10 lb flouro and I still think that's a good enough option as I can cast them a mile.  I'm talking the smallest of cranks here.  

 

I've since gotten a kayak and I'm trying to target deeper bass by cranking.  The issue I have is figuring out a good rod/reel/line/lure setup that works. 

 

I went straight 12 lb flouro on a M/H/Fast 7 foot rod, shimano curado, and tried fishing a 3xd and a 5xd. My issue was twofold: I couldn't cast them all that far and the flouro seems to produce far too many backlashes if I loosen things up.  So I'm not casting them as far as they need to go to work correctly or I face line issues.  I'm not amazing with a baitcaster, but I have zero problem throwing other lures on braid, particularly heavier lures. 

 

I've successfully thrown the 3xd super far on a spinning reel and caught fish (mostly pike), but this is not at all ideal as it's too much on the reel IMO. 

 

So I'm kind of back to square one in terms of trying to figure this out.  I'm also in a kayak so you get drag that takes you to the bait, so casting as far as humanly possible is imperative. 

 

So I'm looking to buy a setup specifically for this purpose and any crankbaits with a weight transfer systems that cast extremely far and are heavy would seem to help.  The strike kings and Rapala DTs don't have this so I find they don't launch THAT far. 

 

Any recommendations? I was thinking something like an SLX reel (I'm on a budget and use Shimano exclusively), a 7'6 crankbait rod, 15 lb braid to a 10 lb flouro leader, and then whatever crank dives to 15 feet or so and casts the furthest. Does this make sense at all? 

 

If it matters I'm mostly targeting big smallmouth in natural lakes, decently clear water, rocky, in the 12-20 foot range.  For crankbait lures I always prefer something more slender/less shad like since we don't have shad here and smallmouth eat smaller baits. Think more of a goby/perch/shiner/crayfish shape. 

 

I've caught fish in these situations on spybaits, drop shot, ned rigs, tubes, small swimbaits, but I'd like to use something that can cover water more quickly as all of the above are slow fishing options mainly and as SMB here are pretty bitey if you put a lure right in front of their face. 

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

 

[A-Jay]

Fished from a canoe for 10 years - I can feel your pain from here.

Your gear seems decent but Right off the bat, before you invest in new gear

try these two things first. 

Use 10-12 lb FC and ANCHOR your rig. 

I'd also recommend using a bigger deeper diving plug.

Something that is rated to dive MUCH deeper than the depth you're targeting.

Baits in these categories tend to STAY down where we want them.

They are usually heavier and will cast better for you.

MY alternate baits for deep cranking are Swingheads, Swimbait on a jighead & a lippless fished like a jig.  Of course a jig & craw might always be a viable deep water option, especially if you've located fish that are snuggled up to hard cover.

btw - make sure those stock treble hooks are always sticky sharp.

A-Jay

 

[Cdn Angler]

1 minute ago, A-Jay said:

Fished from a canoe for 10 years - I can feel your pain from here.

Your gear seems decent but Right off the bat, before you invest in new gear

try these two things first. 

Use 10-12 lb FC and ANCHOR your rig. 

I'd also recommend using a bigger deeper diving plug.

Something that is rated to dive MUCH deeper than the depth you're targeting.

Baits in these categories tend to STAY down where we want them.

They are usually heavier and will cast better for you.

MY alternate baits for deep cranking are Swingheads, Swimbait on a jighead & a lippless fished like a jig.  Of course a jig & craw might always be a viable deep water, especially if you're located fish that are snuggled up to hard cover.

btw - make sure those stock treble hooks are always sticky sharp.

A-Jay

 

 

Thanks A-Jay and glad to know you were once canoe bound:) Thanks for the advice.

 

I do have an anchor and will use it periodically, but I need to get better at it with a proper anchor trolley. I often end up pointed the direction I don't want to be, which is obviously useless. 

 

Any specifics in terms of bigger deeper divers? I can see what you are saying though and it makes perfect sense as a shorter cast would necessitate a bait that goes deeper. 

 

Is there any disadvantage to using braid to 10 lb flouro vs. straight 10 lb flouro?  I like your idea regarding swingheads and I have some, but haven't used them enough. 

 

The idea I like about cranking is that you can go fast and be sure what depth you are at once you've nailed it down whereas bottom hopping I always feel like I have to go slow to ensure I'm maintaining contact/depth. That might just be a me thing/not heavy enough weight thing!

 

Thx again!

Also many deep diving cranks are huge looking things. Personally I find SMB will still bite big baits, but it goes against conventional wisdom so I've been hesitant to throw a large bait like the rapala DTs.  

 

I've had SMB bite 7 inch swimbaits, 130 whopper ploppers, huge spooks, but none of that was bottom fishing for lethargic fish so IDK. 

[A-Jay]

Anchoring effectively takes some practice and is sort of a lost art.

But it's just about a must in your case.

Don't give up on it.

Having enough anchor line is important.

I've even used two anchors at times, totally locks me down on a spot.

Bit of a PIA, but the payoff can be quite awesome. 

The more you do it, the better you'll get at it.

Being able to position your rig right where you need to, is an assortment of weather conditions in order to fish a variety of presentations is AT Least half the battle.

Fishing from a constantly moving rig all the time IMO,

Greatly reduces one's fish catching potential.

Good Luck

Here's a Swimbait brown bass from the canoe right after I anchored. 

https://youtu.be/02fPoZHOri8?t=1151

A-Jay

 

 

[Cdn Angler]

22 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Anchoring effectively takes some practice and is sort of a lost art.

But it's just about a must in your case.

Don't give up on it.

Having enough anchor line is important.

I've even used two anchors at times, totally locks me down on a spot.

Bit of a PIA, but the payoff can be quite awesome. 

The more you do it, the better you'll get at it.

Being able to position your rig right where you need to, is an assortment of weather conditions in order to fish a variety of presentations is AT Least half the battle.

Fishing from a constantly moving rig all the time IMO,

Greatly reduces one's fish catching potential.

Good Luck

Here's a Swimbait brown bass from the canoe right after I anchored. 

https://youtu.be/02fPoZHOri8?t=1151

A-Jay

 

 

 

That's a kitted out canoe and a beautiful SMB. 

 

I think part of my issue is that I can 70% of the time catch a 3.5-4.5 bass on topwater, so trying to get away from that. 

 

Minimal fishing pressure, decent sized fish, makes things a bit too easy. 

[A-Jay]

29 minutes ago, Cdn Angler said:

 

That's a kitted out canoe and a beautiful SMB. 

 

I think part of my issue is that I can 70% of the time catch a 3.5-4.5 bass on topwater, so trying to get away from that. 

 

Minimal fishing pressure, decent sized fish, makes things a bit too easy. 

 Thanks & That's a great percentage.

I wish I could catch anything 70% of the time. 

Perhaps enter a few tournaments.

You could win.

A-Jay

 

[Cdn Angler]

20 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

 Thanks & That's a great percentage.

I wish I could catch anything 70% of the time. 

Perhaps enter a few tournaments.

You could win.

A-Jay

 

 

I go to small lakes in the middle of nowhere with no pressure as I'm in northern Canada. These fish see a lure every few days, at most, so it isn't hard to catch them. And I don't catch 5 fish over 3.5 lbs, I might catch one or two, absolute maximum. 

 

We have so many lakes in Canada and so few people. If you try hard and drive far enough you can find lakes that barely see a lure all summer. The second a lure hits the water it's being bitten. Doesn't even matter what you are throwing. 

 

If it was a popular big lake with a lot of pressure, throwing top water all day is going to get you one or two decent fish and 25th place in a tourney. 

[LrgmouthShad]

iRod has a genesis III model called Fred’s Crank Launcher if you can find one available. It is really long though and could be unwieldy in a kayak. For reel I would find something in the 5 speed range for deep divers. If you wanna stay with Shimano, that’s all cool but I’m not sure what options that leaves you with since you mentioned you are on a budget. Line I would use 12lb trilene big game. 
 

Bait monkey has had me looking at crankbaiting stuff recently 

 

AJay has great recommendations about dealing with crankbaiting from a kayak/canoe

[RDB]

I think your primary problem is either with your reel set up or your casting motion.  Fluoro will react differently than braid on a baitcaster.  I’m not a Shimano user but I think even on the DC reels, they have a different recommended setting for braid and fluoro.  On my Steez reels, I never touch my spool tension.  If I need to make adjustments, it’s brakes only.

 

As far as your gear, the reel is fine but the rod could be causing some issues.  You mention a 7’ MH/F rod but there are so many differences in how those are rated that it has almost become useless.  I like a longer rod that loads well but has some backbone.  I use a 7’6” MH/Mod composite rod (Alpha Angler) but there are a lot of good options.

 

As far as lures, if you have to pick a certain brand to get a long cast, your problem is somewhere else.  I can bomb DT’s just fine and don’t need super specific gear to accomplish.

[Cdn Angler]

39 minutes ago, LrgmouthShad said:

iRod has a genesis III model called Fred’s Crank Launcher if you can find one available. It is really long though and could be unwieldy in a kayak. For reel I would find something in the 5 speed range for deep divers. If you wanna stay with Shimano, that’s all cool but I’m not sure what options that leaves you with since you mentioned you are on a budget. Line I would use 12lb trilene big game. 
 

Bait monkey has had me looking at crankbaiting stuff recently 

 

AJay has great recommendations about dealing with crankbaiting from a kayak/canoe

Thanks a lot for the useful info. I've seen that iRod before, but I might now pull the trigger. Longer rods honestly aren't an issue in a kayak, it's more so that you have to cast way lower to the water level. If a non Shimano reel is better, please suggest. I've just always used Shimano reels so I know how they work.

I'm not on a strict budget, but if I could avoid paying $350 for a reel that's preferable. If a reel at that cost is amazing, I could do it. 

 

In general I like to spend less than 250/reel and less than 150/rod. 

[LrgmouthShad]

1 hour ago, Cdn Angler said:

If a non Shimano reel is better, please suggest. I've just always used Shimano reels so I know how they work.

I'm not on a strict budget, but if I could avoid paying $350 for a reel that's preferable. If a reel at that cost is amazing, I could do it. 

Well this is just my opinion, mind you I’ve been on this Earth shorter than many on this site…. If you do want to spend the money, get the REVO Winch. I love mine and bought another because the left handed version seems to be running out of a lot of places and possibly no longer being produced. It’s a very good reel and special to me.

 

the winch is made for crankbaiting but it is an awesome spinnerbait reel as well

[WRB]

Trying to cast crankbaits a long distance using a MHF rod is a problem. You need a moderate action rod to start the reel spool slower so it doesn’t over run as the crankbait slows in mid flight. 

Some alternative lures that can run as deep as you let them sink are Scroungers and Chatterbait type lures.

Advertised run depth for diving crankbaits is nearly impossible to achieve more then a few feet at depth casting them less then 50 yards. Consider 75% of the advertised depth to be more realistic.

Always use a line conditioner with FC line. The conditioners allow water to stick to the line keeping it in the reel spool better then dry line.

Suggest using Sunline Defier Armillo 11 lb mono, same diameter as your FC and cast 100% better.

Tom

 

[garroyo130]

If you plan on using the reel exclusively for deep cranking, there are better options than the SLX which doesnt have a dual supported pinion. Im with @WRB on this one. With lures at those weights even budget reels should fare fairly well with casting. It sounds like it may be an issue with how the rod is loading.

 

As for lures not sure if you have access to Academy but CRD+ crankbaits have been good to me. 

[king fisher]

You can try tolling your crankbait.  I am always amazed at how many bass I catch trolling when I move from one location to the next.  When casting crankbaits, I have reverse on my Hobie so I simply pedal in reverse while I reel.  This keeps me from being pulled towards the lure.  You could cast, then paddle back a few yards with your reel in free spool, then make your retrieve.  A long rod with a medium action and an educated thumb, will launch a Rapala DT crankbait a long ways.  Start your cast slow and smooth, in order to keep the crankbait from tumbling.  To much muscle at the start of the cast will make the bait tumble, and you will loose half your distance.   I agree with Tom.  Ditch the floro and go to the Defier Armillo.  I tried this line for the first time a couple months ago, and am very impressed with it.  Now for the 100th. and hopefully last  time I am living floro free.

[flyfisher]

I think @A-Jay nailed it.  Fishing offshore in a kayak is a difficult proposition but anchoring is key.  I have primarily been fishing rivers lately but when I do fish lakes a lot I always bring a second anchor rigged off the back to compliment the one off the front and I know I won't move from a spot.  This is where electronics comes in to play because I am not going through the effort of anchoring without knowing it is a solid location.  Unless the weather is windy I can usually get away with one anchor off the bow though since I can stand and cast pretty much 360 degrees in my kayak.  I also always go much deeper with my crabnkbait than my target depth to keep it where I want it to be longer.  If I start ticking the bottom and I don't want to I just let off for a second to let it float up and that alone can trigger strikes.

 

[PhishLI]

On 12/30/2021 at 1:13 PM, Cdn Angler said:

I went straight 12 lb flouro on a M/H/Fast 7 foot rod, shimano curado, and tried fishing a 3xd and a 5xd. My issue was twofold: I couldn't cast them all that far and the flouro seems to produce far too many backlashes if I loosen things up.  So I'm not casting them as far as they need to go to work correctly or I face line issues.  I'm not amazing with a baitcaster, but I have zero problem throwing other lures on braid, particularly heavier lures. 

The last generation Zillion SV is being closed out for a bit over $200 right now. The SV air brake will help when dealing with lighter cranks in wind due to the fact that it brakes more midcast. Shimano brakes are on in the beginning of the cast then quickly turn off. Add to that the Curado has a heavy spool, so it wants to keep spinning which forces you to be thumb heavy with lighter wind catching baits with bills. The Zillions full spool is way lighter and a real benefit here.. Don't believe anyone who claims this reel can't bomb lures. Once you adjust your mechanics to its braking profile it'll zing baits out there nicely. You'll also appreciate the T-Wing line guide especially with stiffer fluoro line. The line guide aperture is way wider than anything else out there, so there isn't a choke point that causes greater resistance which leads to line fluffing with light baits and stiffer plastic lines. Also, if you're not the greatest skipper this reel will open up that option nicely.