Rod balance

[MickD]

12 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

the more torque you need to apply to get the rod tip moving at the desired speed.

And the more you need to stop it.

[Bankc]

A rod is balanced when it feels right in your hands.  It will fish with less effort and more control.  

What makes a rod balanced depends on the rod, reel, line, lure, and person using it.  So it's completely subjective.  You'll know it when you feel it, but don't expect anyone else to agree with you.  

[spoonplugger1]

Just like every angler for any species, the longer the rod gets the heavier it will be and the more out of balance they will be. It's inevitable, all the rest of us who fish many species just have long accepted this, or have in many species never had a balanced setup due to the gear needed to get the job done, maybe it's time for all of us using long rods, or in the case of longer and longer bass rods to just accept the downside that comes with the benefits we think we are getting. We longterm rod builders went through a long grip/ balance faze back in the early 90's, Bull Dog Jig Company had Lamiglas build a series of rods built with longer grips with a saltwater type fighting butt composite cork knob on the end, a very nice looking full grip. I still have some of those ends from when I built similar grips, you need 1 1/2 inch cork rings to use them, and quality cork that size, even back then, was fairly hard to find.

[Chris Catignani]

@spoonplugger1 I recently made rod out of a Rainshadow CB66M. I cut 6" off the butt to make it 6' and I must say..I love it. I have been fishing a Slider on it and a Ned rig. It has a tube Tennessee handle and a joy to fish. The Handle is just 10" and its easy one handed casting.

5 hours ago, spoonplugger1 said:

...maybe it's time for all of us using long rods, or in the case of longer and longer bass rods to just accept the downside that comes with the benefits we think we are getting. 

Dude...true that.

 

 

[Lyman X]

Chris, looks more like 11" to me! lol Nice build though, I think that's about the most efficient grip you can make.

[Chris Catignani]

30 minutes ago, Lyman X said:

Chris, looks more like 11" to me! lol Nice build though, I think that's about the most efficient grip you can make.

Thanks....

It is 11"...the tube alone was 10" then add the caps. But I have to agree with you on the grip.

There is a (hybrid) version I like to make that is just a 3" piece of graphite tube (reel seat) and the fore and aft is cork. Once the reel seat it taped on it looks all cork.

[spoonplugger1]

Chris, was that the red Texalium tube, or the red kevlar? The red kevlar looked more black between the red weave pattern, made it look darker overall.

[WRB]

Spinning rods you can change the fulcrum point by moving hand holding the rod between the reel stem until it feels balanced. 

Casting rods you hold the rod and reel where it feels feel comfortable to you the balance or fulcrum point may or may not be balanced. If the rod is built where the fulcrum point is close to the center of the reel seat the reel weight is neutralized. 

Tom

[Chris Catignani]

On 12/27/2021 at 3:12 PM, spoonplugger1 said:

Chris, was that the red Texalium tube, or the red kevlar? The red kevlar looked more black between the red weave pattern, made it look darker overall.

Its Texalium.

[dodgeguy]

On 12/23/2021 at 3:01 PM, MN Fisher said:

^ What Mike said.

 

Also - to what reel do you balance the rod for?

Take spinning. I have three different reels from two manufacturers that are pretty much the same.

Mitchell Avocet RZT-2000

Pflueger President XT-LE 30

Pflueger Supreme 30

 

All pretty much the same size reel, holding the same amount of line. But the weights are different. 7.5oz to 8.7oz

 

So which of these do I want the rod to balance to? What if I change reels?

 

Balance point is pretty much meaningless unless you tailor the rod to a specific reel...and never put a different reel on that rod.

Wrong. Balance point is center Of reel seat under rod. The weight sits on top of pivot. Weight of reel has no effect. I used to add butt weights but since rods have gotten so much lighter I no longer do this. Just get the least tip heavy rod you canand go for the lightest most naturally balanced combo you can. Rod technology has progressed so much that it's actually not that hard or costly.

[RDB]

Balance influences the resistance to gravity in the position the rod is being used and in theory, increases fatigue and accuracy over time (some argue sensitivity as well).  With a tip heavy rod used in a tip up position like a jig, your hands are fighting against gravity.  On the other hand, gravity would have little influence with a tip heavy rod in a tip down position like topwater.  The reel used and your hand position will have an influence on balance.  One of the biggest complaints you hear about G Loomis JWR rods is they are tip heavy.  Personally, I don’t find balance to be much of an issue but some anglers seem to be sensitive to balance.

 

Edit:  Balance is reflected in inches from the reel seat and the horizontal position is used because it is the most objective way to measure.  A rod that balances 8” forward will be more tip heavy than one balanced 4” forward.

[RDB]

On 1/2/2022 at 2:22 PM, dodgeguy said:

Wrong. Balance point is center Of reel seat under rod. The weight sits on top of pivot. Weight of reel has no effect.

With respect, this is not correct.  The balance point of a rod is not the center of the reel seat…it is measured from the reel seat and can vary by rod.  For example, look at the Tackle Tour reviews for the G Loomis NRX 852c and the Dobyns 735.  They list a balance point at 8.5” for the 852 v. 5.5” for the 735.  Hand position and reel size can influence the feeling of balance.

[dodgeguy]

37 minutes ago, RDB said:

With respect, this is not correct.  The balance point of a rod is not the center of the reel seat…it is measured from the reel seat and can vary by rod.  For example, look at the Tackle Tour reviews for the G Loomis NRX 852c and the Dobyns 735.  They list a balance point at 8.5” for the 852 v. 5.5” for the 735.  Hand position and reel size can influence the feeling of balance.

That is the imbalance point. The further out it is the more tip heavy it is. Most guys palm a reel so the balance point is under the reel where you hold it.

[RDB]

2 hours ago, dodgeguy said:

That is the imbalance point. The further out it is the more tip heavy it is. Most guys palm a reel so the balance point is under the reel where you hold it.

They don’t list rod specs for MOST guys.  People hold rods differently, whether baitcasters or spinning (especially spinning).  Balance point (not imbalance point) takes out the variability and gives a consistent point of reference.  It is literally the point where the rod is perfectly balanced.  That’s why they measure in inches from reel seat.  Here is an example from a Tackle Tour review (they show balance point for all rods…note column 4).  In your way of thinking, 8.5” would be the imbalance point, which makes no sense.  I’m not going to argue…you can die on this hill if you like.

 

Lab Results for G.Loomis NRX 852C JWR
Model	Avg RoD (2-32 oz)	Taper	Measured Weight (oz)	Balance Point (inches)	Balancing Torque (ftlbs)
G.Loomis NRX 852C JWR	2.01	Extra-Fast	3.7 oz	8.5	0.15
MBR842C GLX	1.99	Fast	4	8.5	--
MBR783C GLX2000	1.72	Fast	4.8	5	0.11

 

[dodgeguy]

That makes no sense.

[RDB]

I don’t know what to tell you.  Imbalance means not balanced.  If 8.5” is the imbalance point and the balance point is the reel seat, why isn’t every other number between the reel seat and the tip of the rod the imbalance point?  Why would they just choose 8.5” as the imbalance point?  You can literally balance that NRX rod on your finger at 8.5” from the seat.

 

imbalance

 noun

Definition of imbalance

: lack of balance : the state of being out of equilibrium or out of proportion

[dodgeguy]

.8.5 is for a unbalanced rod. It would feel tip heavy.to balance it you add butt weight which brings your balance closer.you don't hold the rod 8.5 inch's up the rod. It should balance close to your hand.

[RDB]

You are just confused on what the balance point specs are referring to.  Do a little research and we can talk some more.  There is no such thing as imbalance point in rod specs…it is a made up term.

 

Edit:  Or you could be punking me.  If not a punk, I challenge you to post your theory on the main forums.

[Chris Catignani]

[cyclops2]

The only rods I need balanced. Are ANY flyrods. I change reel sizes to get a NEUTRAL balance FEEL.   Done     Required because of rapid pickups & casts each 10 seconds.

[RDB]

59 minutes ago, dodgeguy said:

.8.5 is for a unbalanced rod. It would feel tip heavy.to balance it you add butt weight which brings your balance closer.you don't hold the rod 8.5 inch's up the rod. It should balance close to your hand.

I think you are confusing meanings.  The balance point is the point on the rod where balance is horizontal.  This can be determined with the rod only or with the reel attached…each will have a balance point.  Adjustments can be made (weight, reel, etc.) to adjust the balance point to a position that feels comfortable to the individual.  There is no universally proper balance point.  It sounds like you prefer center of the reel seat.  That means you should be able to balance your rods w/reels on a finger at that spot and it will remain horizontal.  None of mine balance at that spot.
 

10 hours ago, RDB said:

 

Lab Results for G.Loomis NRX 852C JWR
Model	Avg RoD (2-32 oz)	Taper	Measured Weight (oz)	Balance Point (inches)	Balancing Torque (ftlbs)
G.Loomis NRX 852C JWR	2.01	Extra-Fast	3.7 oz	8.5	0.15
MBR842C GLX	1.99	Fast	4	8.5	--
MBR783C GLX2000	1.72	Fast	4.8	5	0.11

 

 

So, why would manufacturers, reviewers, anglers, etc. provide balance points for rods only since we don’t fish with rods only?  It’s because comfort varies and there are other variables that can influence.  By indicating the point on the rod where it achieves balance, you can make better informed decisions.  If I am a potential buyer and am sensitive to tip heavy rods, I know that all else being equal, the NRX above will likely be more tip heavy than the MBR 783 in the above.

[cyclops2]

Why I have always preferred all straight cork handles & slide reel rings. Not sexy. But fully adjustable to any reel.

[dodgeguy]

 

[RDB]

I tried to respectfully explain how you are wrong but I have since seen how you have been arguing this topic for a long time and have been mocked for your unwillingness to change your view after ample evidence.  
 

FWIW…the video proves my point.  It is literally about adjusting the balance point.  If you want your balance point in the center of the reel seat, knock yourself out.  To say that the balance point is the center of the reel seat is just wrong.  To say how you hold the rod doesn’t influence balance is just wrong.  To say that the reel weight doesn’t matter is just wrong (watch your own video again).  You could have posted any video on this topic and it would have said the same thing.  Here is another video for your viewing pleasure.  Note in none of his examples is his preferred balance point the center of the reel seat.

 

https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/rod-reel-balancing/

 

Go ahead and respond so you can get the last word.  My main purpose was to make sure others who visit get correct information, not to change your view.  If you find some evidence to support your theory, feel free to PM me as I am no longer going to continue this argument on the thread (hint: you won’t find any).

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Tackle Tour should be taken with a grain of salt. They have some good info but sometimes nerd out and get really into the weeds.