Rod balance

[JeffD]

Sorry if this has been discussed before. I haven't seen anything on this topic. I'm just wondering what makes a rod balanced? Is there a specific spot on the rod that the weight is evenly distributed? Should it be balanced from a spot on the reel seat? Is it different from angler to angler? Some like their rods more top heavy or vise versa? Am I over analyzing this? Give me some or you thoughts. Thanks in advance. 

[spoonplugger1]

Think less, fish more. Make them as light as you can then fish them.

[Chris Catignani]

@JeffD I have always been baffled when people talk about a "balanced" rod. To me...it just means the right rod for the right reel. Like @spoonplugger1 said..."Make them as light as you can...".

I have seen rods where they added weight to the back and I just scratch my head.

 

Obviously..."IF" you were to balance a rod, you would need to add weight as far back on the bottom of the rod as you can. The bulk of the weight is in the reel and its balance point (fulcrum) would be in your hand.

[JeffD]

This is my thought also. I've just heard people talking about adding weight to the rod for better balance. I didn't want to build a rod and find out I wasn't using all this new technology. As I've stated here before, I haven't built a rod for over 40 years and back then there wasn't any talk about balance. It was all about how a rod felt in your hand.

Thankfully, it sounds like it's still the same today.

[Chris Catignani]

16 minutes ago, JeffD said:

This is my thought also. I've just heard people talking about adding weight to the rod for better balance. I didn't want to build a rod and find out I wasn't using all this new technology. As I've stated here before, I haven't built a rod for over 40 years and back then there wasn't any talk about balance. It was all about how a rod felt in your hand.

Thankfully, it sounds like it's still the same today.

There have been occasions where I might not build it a light as humanly possible...

Example: I have on occasion put burl cork (or cork with a burl inlay) on the foregrip of a crankbait rod.

It just seems that that particular area of the handle gets a lot of force applied to it and burl will hold up better. I will also do this on other rods for sensitivity...burl cork is more sensitive than just regular cork. But burl is heavier, and I don't use it where it won't help with durability or sensitivity.

[Tennessee Boy]

At some point people started balancing their rod & reel on their finger with the theory that the closer the rod balances to the reel the better.  There are threads on here where people posted pictures of this "balance point" test.   It's kind of a modern way to prove the superiority of a combo I think.   In terms of physics this doesn't make a lot of sense.  As you raise the rod up from this balanced state,  the reel begins to add torque.  Then there's the bait.  Any degree of balance goes out the window when you add a bait.  Most anglers I know fish with a bait and with their rod raised above the horizontal position.  

 

If having a rod that's balanced when held horizontally and without a bait makes you happy,  just add weight to the butt of the rod until it balances where you hold the rod.  Just know that this will increase the moment of inertia of the rod which is not good in my opinion.

[Chris Catignani]

@Tennessee Boy Thats good information. I think what we are seeing is that people using the micro guides and lighter blanks, and longer rear butt handle, are creating a "balanced" scenario...actually just a side effect. Now ...dont get me wrong...I love the feel of a rod that tends to be balanced...but it just seems to me that these are the rods that are in the 6' range. Now a days...reels are getting lighter, plastic and carbon...which effects the balance. Personally, I want a rig to be as light as it can  (balanced or not)...especially if I have to fish it all day.

[MickD]

If going with a longer rear grip make sure it doesn't hang up on the elbow of the fisherman when going from up to down or vice versa.  I had to cut about 1 1/2 inches off the butt of my first spin build because the length behind the reel seat was too long.

 

I also added weight to a casting rod once thinking that balance was very important.  Then it almost torqued out of  my hands and into the lake because the inertia had gotten so high.  Now I do like has  been suggested and make them as light as reasonably possible (keeping good ergonomics in mind-I don't like skeleton seats or similar "drastic" measures) and choose as light a reel as I can get that will do the job.  

 

Yes, shorter is easier to balance than longer.  But I like rods that are on the longer side, so I sacrifice balance.  I don't think it's that important compared to other priorities.  Keep in mind that as soon as a lure is tied on the balance is affected.  Negatively.  Also, even with a slack line, when the tip is high balance is not of much importance.  

 

 

[Chris Catignani]

4 minutes ago, MickD said:

If going with a longer rear grip make sure it doesn't hang up on the elbow of the fisherman when going from up to down or vice versa.  I had to cut about 1 1/2 inches off the butt of my first spin build because the length behind the reel seat was too long.

 

I also added weight to a casting rod once thinking that balance was very important.  Then it almost torqued out of  my hands and into the lake because the inertia had gotten so high.  Now I do like has  been suggested and make them as light as reasonably possible (keeping good ergonomics in mind-I don't like skeleton seats or similar "drastic" measures) and choose as light a reel as I can get that will do the job.  

 

Yes, shorter is easier to balance than longer.  But I like rods that are on the longer side, so I sacrifice balance.  I don't think it's that important compared to other priorities.  Keep in mind that as soon as a lure is tied on the balance is affected.  Negatively.  Also, even with a slack line, when the tip is high balance is not of much importance.  

 

 

There are many days where I fish all day with my: pitchin stick, flippin stick and grass rake. These are three of the heaviest rods you could ever fish with...total beasts. At the end of the day I feel like I been in the ring with Mike Tyson.

[cyclops2]

Some people use the word....  BALANCE .......when talking about the action of  it.  Not me.

 

 NO reel on the rod. There is 1 balance point.  Period Most correctly sized reels  WILL BALANCE at the same point.

[PressuredFishing]

2 hours ago, JeffD said:

Sorry if this has been discussed before. I haven't seen anything on this topic. I'm just wondering what makes a rod balanced? Is there a specific spot on the rod that the weight is evenly distributed? Should it be balanced from a spot on the reel seat? Is it different from angler to angler? Some like their rods more top heavy or vise versa? Am I over analyzing this? Give me some or you thoughts. Thanks in advance. 

On mudhole they sell butt weights you put into the butt of the rod handle, but every time you change your reel it will be unbalanced unless you use the same model size and brand reel

[cyclops2]

I am not that fussy about a slightly out of perfect balance set up.

 

 I use a huge old Mitchell 300 light saltwater spinning setup.  It is FINE. Long casts & fantastic drag adjustment.  Done  I do have different spools with different line classes.

[Team9nine]

15 minutes ago, cyclops2 said:

Some people use the word....  BALANCE .......when talking about the action of  it.  Not me.

 

 NO reel on the rod. There is 1 balance point.  Period Most correctly sized reels  WILL BALANCE at the same point.

This ^^ It’s a simple static calculation I can measure and make in just a minute or two with any rod off the shelf and have a value I can compare against every other rod I own, and pretty much know exactly how it will feel and fish (to me) regardless of weight or reel.

[Chris Catignani]

21 minutes ago, PressuredFishing said:

On mudhole they sell butt weights you put into the butt of the rod handle, but every time you change your reel it will be unbalanced unless you use the same model size and brand reel

On one of the models I've seen...you unscrewed the butt cap and added or subtracted disks to add or take away weight.

[cyclops2]

I can not believe that a company CAN NOT figure out the balance point during design & a prototype rod ?????????  Good grief.  Makes no difference if cork or molded plastic reel clamping action. 

 Replace the constant Texting person designing the rod. Useless as they come 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

This is arguably the most debated topic in rod comparison. There is no “correct” or “incorrect” rod feel. I say feel intentionally because it is physically impossible to make a rod see saw at a point that wouldn’t be a ridiculous handle length. The many variables that affect feel are another reason I try not to use the word “balance” in a context other than appropriate for the application when paired with a particular reel, line, bait and presentation.  Bottom line: don’t overthink it. 

[MN Fisher]

^ What Mike said.

 

Also - to what reel do you balance the rod for?

Take spinning. I have three different reels from two manufacturers that are pretty much the same.

Mitchell Avocet RZT-2000

Pflueger President XT-LE 30

Pflueger Supreme 30

 

All pretty much the same size reel, holding the same amount of line. But the weights are different. 7.5oz to 8.7oz

 

So which of these do I want the rod to balance to? What if I change reels?

 

Balance point is pretty much meaningless unless you tailor the rod to a specific reel...and never put a different reel on that rod.

[Jig Man]

I don’t know much about it but I took my favorite shaky rod to a builder and told him that I wanted one similar.  He asked all kinds of questions along with what reel I would be using and its weight.  He said he needed that to make the balance correct.

 

The completed rod is now my very favorite shaky rod.  

[spoonplugger1]

I get a kick out of wore out bass anglers using the lightest rods and reels out there, when the musky, pike, striper, salmon  anglers, etc. fish all day too with longer and heavier, rods, reels, and lures. Musky anglers throw lures the size of a pidgeon on 8 1/2 - 9 ft. rods. Throwing chickens is what they call it and they even add more weight to the hook.

[cyclops2]

Fishing does take more long lasting muscle than texting all day.  I have seen a couple of people texting while fishing.

[OldManLure]

8 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

At some point people started balancing their rod & reel on their finger with the theory that the closer the rod balances to the reel the better.  There are threads on here where people posted pictures of this "balance point" test.   It's kind of a modern way to prove the superiority of a combo I think.   In terms of physics this doesn't make a lot of sense.  As you raise the rod up from this balanced state,  the reel begins to add torque.  Then there's the bait.  Any degree of balance goes out the window when you add a bait.  Most anglers I know fish with a bait and with their rod raised above the horizontal position.  

 

If having a rod that's balanced when held horizontally and without a bait makes you happy,  just add weight to the butt of the rod until it balances where you hold the rod.  Just know that this will increase the moment of inertia of the rod which is not good in my opinion.

“…just add weight to the butt of the rod until it balances where you hold the rod.  Just know that this will increase the moment of inertia of the rod which is not good in my opinion.”

 

For as long as I can remember (and longer than I care to), when casting my spinning rods, I have always placed fingertips of my left hand on butt of rod and ‘pushed’ the butt in the opposite direction of my rod tip.  Varying the force of the ‘push’ allows me, I believe, to have a much finer control of distance.  Am I assisting the MOI?

[cyclops2]

I am old. So I cast easily in morning . By 4.  I am Casting with 2 hands AND trolling the other rod.

 

Where is our     Everything in moderation person  ?     

 

 

[Tennessee Boy]

1 hour ago, OldManLure said:

Am I assisting the MOI?

Moment of Inertia is inherent in an object just like it’s weight.  It determines how much torque is needed to produce rotational acceleration.   When casting,  the higher the moment of inertia,  the more torque you need to apply to get the rod tip moving at the desired speed.  
 

When you apply force to the butt of the rod  when you cast you are using leverage to apply torque during the cast.
 

 

[cyclops2]

Having medium painful Arthritis with bad weather fronts 2 hours away.   I have to use the way Tennessee Boy describes it.  Bad weather is perch for senior friends.  I stop at 5 for each friend.  Great people. 

[Darth-Baiter]

It’s a moving target.  Really hard to nail down when reels come in so many different weights. 
 

if it feels right, you’ll know.