How important is a supported pinion gear?

[Cody28]

Just curious how important and what affect a supported pinion gear has? I have been told it improves longevity from what I’ve seen online but it’s hard to find any information on what it actually does. Is it true that the Lew’s Hypermag and Pro TI both do not have a supported pinion? I currently have a Hypermag and after hearing this considered selling. Should I beware of the longevity of this reel? I know they’re not truly high end, but being the most expensive Lew’s reels I would expect they have something in place of this? Any help is appreciated.  

[newapti5]

I assume you're talking about double supported pinion gear? We had an interesting discussion before:

 

 

[cyclops2]

I have NEVER SEEN IN PERSON a unsupported gear in anything mechanical in 60 years of machinery.

[newapti5]

I have seen Magneto did that.

[bulldog1935]

Double-supported pinion keeps it aligned and lets you turn the crank without the spool in place. 

Single-supported pinion in this Super Duty G is still fishing hard after 4 salty years. 

 

[garroyo130]

I think when people blame graphite reels for "frame flex" its typically a lack of dual support that causes the feeling. I say this based on personal experience where the only reels I've ever felt "flex" were graphite without dual support.

[PhishLI]

57 minutes ago, cyclops2 said:

I have NEVER SEEN IN PERSON a unsupported gear in anything mechanical in 60 years of machinery.

When the reel's spools in the OP's question are engaged and under load the pinions are in fact supported by the spool's shaft on the gear-to-gear side and a bearing on the pin side. Reels with a version of this type of scheme, whether they're Tatulas ,SLXs, or the OP's Lew's reels, shouldn't be cranked without the spool installed as the pinion can flop without the spool's shaft to keep the gears aligned.

[PhishLI]

1 hour ago, Cody28 said:

I currently have a Hypermag and after hearing this considered selling.

Have you fished it hard and winched in some heavy fish? If you have and everything's still peachy then don't worry about it. IMO, if a reel has a particular issue with geary-ness it'll probably show up rather quickly if fished hard. This happened with "my" particular Tatula SV, but my Fuego's have been just fine. My brother's SLX's didn't hold up as well either. To be clear, it's a minor annoyance to me, and to others it's intolerable, but the reels are totally fishable and don't seem to get much worse over time. The condition, if it shows up at all, seems to plateau.

[Hulkster]

with spinning reels, the double bearing supported pinion gear is called Xship in shimano world if i'm  not mistaken. I believe the Sustains were already doing this on shimano reels for years in the USA market before they gave it a name (eg the Shimano Sustain FE for example). I have one (a 1000 model for UL fishing) and I will die with that reel lol

[CrankFate]

6 hours ago, garroyo130 said:

"frame flex"

I’ve only been fortunate enough to experience frame flex once. I was using what qualifies as BFS for the technique and the fish (which got away) appeared to be about as big as I am. So in my opinion based on only one experience, I’d say don’t worry about frame flex. Just don’t use a bass rod for big game, either.

[Cody28]

21 hours ago, PhishLI said:

Have you fished it hard and winched in some heavy fish? If you have and everything's still peachy then don't worry about it. IMO, if a reel has a particular issue with geary-ness it'll probably show up rather quickly if fished hard. This happened with "my" particular Tatula SV, but my Fuego's have been just fine. My brother's SLX's didn't hold up as well either. To be clear, it's a minor annoyance to me, and to others it's intolerable, but the reels are totally fishable and don't seem to get much worse over time. The condition, if it shows up at all, seems to plateau.

It's relatively new. Most it has been through was a 4 pounder in open water, so not the biggest test. I got a really good deal on it, so could probably make my money back IF I were to sell. 

22 hours ago, garroyo130 said:

I think when people blame graphite reels for "frame flex" its typically a lack of dual support that causes the feeling. I say this based on personal experience where the only reels I've ever felt "flex" were graphite without dual support.

I'd have to agree with this as well thinking back to some of my older graphite reels. With the Hypermag not being made of aluminum. This is another concern of mine. 

[Bankc]

I have a Shimano B-100mag from the early nineties that I still fish with.  It has a graphite frame and single pinion support.  I've never noticed any frame flex or had any issues with it beyond normal wear and tear stuff.  So I'd say if it's an otherwise well built reel that's properly maintained, getting 30+ years out of it isn't unheard of.  If you need more longevity than that, then you'll want to upgrade.  

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Pinion support bearings help keep the gears in line making cranking smoother, minimize friction between the pinion and spool shaft, and in theory aid longevity. On paper it’s a definite upgrade. The need is less critical in a rigid frame with close tolerances. There are tons of old Curados and even Revos still in use without any support bearings for the pinion for example. I like to see them in newer reels to counter the small size, light weight, alloy gears and fine gear teeth. 

[PhishLI]

4 hours ago, Cody28 said:

With the Hypermag not being made of aluminum.

Its frame is made of Magnesium. Why worry about frame flex here?

[Cody28]

2 hours ago, PhishLI said:

Its frame is made of Magnesium. Why worry about frame flex here?

It’s just much lighter and I don’t have experience with it personally. I know it’s stronger but man it feels thin on the reel. 

[PhishLI]

13 minutes ago, Cody28 said:

It’s just much lighter and I don’t have experience with it personally. I know it’s stronger but man it feels thin on the reel. 

Don't sweat it. You'd be the first person to stress over the rigidity of a Magnesium frame.

[NYWayfarer]

My Pro TI is three years old and doesn’t have the Lew’s “P2 pinion bearing” their newer less expensive reels have. My Lew’s inshore LFS reel I bought last year has this bearing.

 

That being said my Pro TI is a fantastic reel. I have caught 9+ pound Channel Catfish on it with no issues from not having this support bearing. I would not dream of selling it for missing this part.

 

 

[Phil77]

I think the Hypermag is their best reel. My only gripe is not having it in a 6 gear ratio for spinnerbaits. Mine is dedicated to square bills and has a couple hundred bass on it with no issues.

[jbrew73]

I would never consider any Lew’s reel without a supported pinion gear.  After owning several Lew’s reels I would also be wary of the new P2 supported ones based on my experience with the older reels.  
Even with yearly maintenance nearly all of my Lew’s reels got rough feeling after 1-2 seasons.  
 

[cyclops2]

I believe that statement. TINY TEETH  will wear out faster. No disagreement .  Add in a floppy post and the wear out rate is dramatically increased.  Add in bigger longer fighting fish ?  Snaggy areas ? 

 

Then use a low pressure grease or oil ?  The PSI pressure on those teeth could be unreal.  Send the reel to the factory.  They need the money.

Why my 50 ? year old Mitchell's,  are still on their first 10- 40W oiling. Pulling some pike & Salmon River salmon to me for a decade proves the design was correct. I have replaced bail springs several times. 4 # to 60 # lines have not worn out anything. The rotating bail casting even has a counterbalancing weight .