Flurocarbon knot failure

[buckmaster27012]

been losing way to many fish due to line breaking at the knot. at first i thought i had some bad line but ended buying some new sunline sniper but the issue still exist. losing fish when fishing swimbaits and drop shot. using a clinch knot on the swimbait and palomar on the drop shot. only time i ever have line break is when i'm using fluro. tie the same knots when you using mono and dont have any issues.

 

suggestions?

 

thanks 

[Siebert Outdoors]

The most common issue is not lubricating the line when tightening.  If you don't do this it can fray or "burn" and weaken.

 

Other is having to short of a tag line and not double checking how tight the knot is and the tag end slips through. 

[Deleted account]

fluorocarbon not strength, just the way it is no matter how many folks from San Diego try to jam their ideas through...

[MN Fisher]

Try what Mike suggested or you can change your knot - Uni or the MK, which is what I use for all my terminal knots.

 

[GreenPig]

A 6 turn San Diego Jam knot with 12 lb Seaguar Red Label will straighten out hooks when I give up and try to break a stuck spoon off.

[jbsoonerfan]

I don't just barely lick the line to wet it. I spit on it to lubricate it. I had a lot of trouble till I started making certain the line was wet.

[newapti5]

Double improved clinch knot has been working great on fluorocarbon. It could reach ~95% of line tensile strength.The regular clinch knot or palomar knot pinches fluoro line too much; it will cause a visible weak point.  Also, wet the line whichever way you prefer.

 

I learned this knot from the G-man in the following video, but actually he tied a double clinch knot, despite the fancy name he gave it. You just need one more step to make it a double improved clinch knot. 

 

 

[WRB]

More knots have been suggested for Fluorocarbon line then any other line in history. The FC knot list is long with more names then anyone can remember.

Yes, FC knot strength is poor compared to mono line that is usually near 100%, FC near 75% compared by diameter.

Sunline Sniper is a premium FC line with knot strength equal any FC line the same diameter.

Line failure with Palomar knot is usually do to twisting the loop putting the hook or lure through the loop.

The San Diego jam knot is a good FC knot and easy to tie using lures. Palomar knot for hooks and snaps.

Wetting the line helps reduce friction heat.

Tom

[Bird]

I do not experience this issue with Sunline sniper using a polamar knot but making sure of no line twist or overlap. 

 

Braid to Flouro using an Alberto has  also proven itself over time. 

 

Yes, I suck on the line like a lollipop. 

[CrankFate]

For the first time ever, I broke off on my leader knot a few weeks ago. It was freezing and I tied a quick not so good knot, to get back in the water quick. Hooked a nice sized fish and pop. Wasn’t even fluoro. It was ande 50 lb leader material. That stuff never breaks. First time for everything….

[ATA]

San Diego jam is the knot ands bring the knot down completley before tight it. dont forget to lube. Basically dont burn the line.

[Deleted account]

2 minutes ago, CrankFate said:

For the first time ever, I broke off on my leader knot a few weeks ago. It was freezing and I tied a quick not so good knot, to get back in the water quick. Hooked a nice sized fish and pop. Wasn’t even fluoro. It was ande 50 lb leader material. That stuff never breaks. First time for everything….

I feel like the cop in the interrogation room,...  "so you are telling me you used Ande 50 lb leader?... for LMB?... In winter?... In Indiana?... and it broke?...    

[CrankFate]

9 minutes ago, Deleted account said:

I feel like the cop in the interrogation room,...  "so you are telling me you used Ande 50 lb leader?... for LMB?... In winter?... In Indiana?... and it broke?...    

No. It was freezing cold, fishing for blackfish off the coast of New Jersey in about 60-70’ of water. The wind was horrible and it was overcast out, and my hands were covered on crab slime. The kind of weather where you’re nose drips an occasional booger every few minutes, that’s like a single tear,  each time, because it’s crying from the freezing.

[Team9nine]

No offense, but I'm going with 'user error' on this one for now. I've used Palomar knots in fluoro for years and years without issue. Any more, I don't even wet my Palomars because when tied properly, there is near zero friction and the test strength difference is negligible. There are specific instances of certain lines or line tests not playing well with certain knots, but that applies to all lines in general. Given today's improved fluoro formulations, things like the mono vs fluro knot strength debate is a bit overblown, IMO; more a generality and less a given or absolute.

[padon]

i had thet problem when i started using flouro. dont use an imptoved clich with flouro. a properly tied palomar should be no problem. my favorite is the san diego jam and i wet the line. ive straightened heavy jig hooks on 14lb sniper.

[Mike L]

30 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

No offense, but I'm going with 'user error' on this one for now. I've used Palomar knots in fluoro for years and years without issue. Any more, I don't even wet my Palomars because when tied properly, there is near zero friction and the test strength difference is negligible. There are specific instances of certain lines or line tests not playing well with certain knots, but that applies to all lines in general. Given today's improved fluoro formulations, things like the mono vs fluro knot strength debate is a bit overblown, IMO; more a generality and less a given or absolute.

Ditto!’

I’ve been saying the same for years. 

Glad somebody else said it. 


 

 

 

Mike 

[FishTank]

San Diego Jam knot is the way to go but I wouldn't use FC on Swimbaits.  Mono, Sunline Defier would be my choice. 

[throttleplate]

i use palomar with FC #15, 20, and 30. I take my time to tie the knots and before cinching up i stick the whole knot and tagline in my mouth and also end up sucking on my fishy fingers full of fish slime, bass attractant, spike-it and chocolate chip cookies.

 

I slowly pull the mainline and stop and pull the tagline and when the knot is very close to being tightened i pull both ends together as one. Then for last measure i pull separatly on the mainline and tagline and then cut it leaving 1/16 or a bit more of tag.

[throttleplate]

25 minutes ago, throttleplate said:

i use palomar with FC #15, 20, and 30. I take my time to tie the knots and before cinching up i stick the whole knot and tagline in my mouth and also end up sucking on my fishy fingers full of fish slime, bass attractant, spike-it and chocolate chip cookies.

 

I slowly pull the mainline and stop and pull the tagline and when the knot is very close to being tightened i pull both ends together as one. Then for last measure i pull separatly on the mainline and tagline and then cut it leaving 1/16 or a bit more of tag.

this is exactly how i do it in the second demo using heavier FC, watch how he pulls down each line till knot is close to final cinching.

 

[Deleted account]

11 hours ago, CrankFate said:

No. It was freezing cold, fishing for blackfish off the coast of New Jersey in about 60-70’ of water. The wind was horrible and it was overcast out, and my hands were covered on crab slime. The kind of weather where you’re nose drips an occasional booger every few minutes, that’s like a single tear,  each time, because it’s crying from the freezing.

And you said blackfish and not tog? case dismissed!

I commercial fish those things, so I can relate. 

[Sam]

Pro's secret...put a drop of quick drying glue on your knots.

[Skunkmaster-k]

Fluorocarbon is way less forgiving than monofilament. Use lots of lube , a good smooth cinch up is important. If it ever curls the line during the cinch, cut it off and start over. The uni is a good knot for fluorocarbon, because you can see when it stacks correctly. 

[jbrew73]

I literally cannot tie the palomar knot without it failing.  I’m sure that I am getting twist or crossing the line but I can’t figure it out.   I’m left handed but somewhat ambidextrous. I guess I get something crossed up.  
I use the uni knot almost exclusively and have very good success.   That said I believe the San Diego jam is a slightly better knot.  
Wetting the line is imperative. 

[Team9nine]

On 12/20/2021 at 7:56 PM, Team9nine said:

No offense, but I'm going with 'user error' on this one for now. I've used Palomar knots in fluoro for years and years without issue. Any more, I don't even wet my Palomars because when tied properly, there is near zero friction and the test strength difference is negligible. There are specific instances of certain lines or line tests not playing well with certain knots, but that applies to all lines in general. Given today's improved fluoro formulations, things like the mono vs fluro knot strength debate is a bit overblown, IMO; more a generality and less a given or absolute.

 

Stumbled across this video tonight which does a nice job of covering my two main points above:

 

> Wetting a knot (or not) is not the death sentence everyone makes it out to be. Most days I don't do it. I started to go away from it several years ago after seeing other data that supported this conclusion (similar to the video below)

 

> Some fluoros are just as strong or stronger than some monos for nearly identical diameters. Formulations have improved, so you really have to compare line vs. line specifically these days, and not just generalize that fluoros are weak and nylons are strong - especially since most testing is done dry (nylons weaken with moisture absorption; most fluoros don't).

 

 

 

 

[Kenny Yi]

On 12/20/2021 at 7:47 PM, Deleted account said:

I feel like the cop in the interrogation room,...  "so you are telling me you used Ande 50 lb leader?... for LMB?... In winter?... In Indiana?... and it broke?...    

I had the same thing happen with my setup, dead of winter, my 9ft surf rod, 50 lb braid to 100 lb leader, bluegill must have broke me off or something...