Alcohol burner

[JeffD]

I see guys using a number of different methods for heating up finish to get bubbles. Everything from propane torches, lighters, to heat guns. Rod building suppliers say you need to use alcohol burners because lighters in particular, produce soot which will get into the finish. Is this a real concern or just a sales pitch?

To get bubbles "out" that is.

[Chris Catignani]

Jeff...I have seen and read a hundred different people do it a hundred different ways.

This is how I've done it for many years.

Using FlexCoat High build:

1. Measure 3cc resin and 3cc hardener.

2. Mix by stirring for two minutes. (when finished...it has lots of bubbles)

3. Appy to thread...and that's it...put it on the dryer.

I do it the same way on thread with or without color preserver.

 

There have been occasions where I have put finish on a second rod (or third) and the mix had gotten a little viscus ...in those cases I will sometimes use a hair dryer.

 

To me...the magic is in the longer pot life of the epoxy.

 

[JeffD]

Thanks Chris, do you try to brush out any bubbles that are there or do they just go away by themselves?

[KCFinesse]

I feel like I get better control with a torch than a burner or lighter. Propane and especially butane will burn cleaner than alcohol.

 

There are a ton of ways to do it. 

 

[Jigfishn10]

I found that keeping Part A and Part B in my pockets for 20 min or so while I was finishing wraps or setting up for finish really helped keep the air bubbles out. If an air bubble did happen to form on a thread wrap, then a standard hair dryer worked great on a rotating rod.

[JeffD]

Thanks for the responses guys. That's kinda what I thought about buying an alcohol torch. 

[Chris Catignani]

49 minutes ago, JeffD said:

Thanks Chris, do you try to brush out any bubbles that are there or do they just go away by themselves?

No...

 

One thing I forgot to add...and I think this has a lot to do with my success.

I will put on two coats.

The first coat will go on somewhat on the thin side. Once it cures you will be able to see the tops of some of the thread. The second coat will cover the rest.

Doing it like this helps eliminating bubbles.

IMO...the bubbles are coming from the tread...not the mix.

By applying a thinner first coat...this will allow the air in the thread (and in the tunnel) to release.

As for the second coat...there is no air to release.

 

 

[Chris Catignani]

Something to think about...

Its a sorta damned if you do damned if you dont.

Its a known fact that applying a little heat will release air bubbles from the mix.

Its also a known fact that applying heat will change the drying time of epoxy.

 

There is also the exothermic reaction of the mix that effects the drying time...you will see this when you mix up finish in a smaller container and it gets hot.

 

Sometimes I think people are doing things to shorten the pot life of the mix and air bubbles from the tread are getting caught.

[MickD]

Keep in mind that very little heat is required to break bubbles.  You can break most of them by gently blowing through a straw.  One of the causes of wavy epoxy is too much heat.  If I use a flame, and I don't always use one, I will just "wipe" the edge of the flame by the rotating blank.  You don't want to really heat the epoxy, you just want a little heat to be near enough to break (by expanding the air in them) the bubbles.  If my room is on the cool side I'll heat the epoxy bottles a little in hot water before mixing.  One of the all time experts on building and epoxy uses the method mentioned of keeping the bottles in his pocket a while before mixing.   I use lite build epoxy and almost invariably use two coats.  Very few bubble problems.  One thing to watch if using a blower is that it can pick up dust and blow it onto the epoxy.  

[JeffD]

All great recommendations guys, thanks.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The danger of alcohol lamps outweighs any benefit. I use a butane torch for bubbles if I must and loosening tip tops, and a heat gun for bigger jobs that require heat 

[Seaworthy81]

The main difference between a alcohol lamp and a lighter is you can put the flame of the alcohol lamp directly on the finish and it won’t leave a mark from the smoke, a lighter will. You can use a lighter if you want, just put it beside the finish, not under it. It takes very little bit of heat to make big changes in finish, hardest part is teaching yourself to use less heat, not more. 

[Lyman X]

The main difference between a lighter and an alcohol torch is soot, lighters give off soot. If you need heat, get a heat gun. Alc. torch is an accident waiting to happen. Most often the straw method mentioned by Mick is sufficient for me.

[Chris Catignani]

18 hours ago, Lyman X said:

The main difference between a lighter and an alcohol torch is soot, lighters give off soot. If you need heat, get a heat gun. Alc. torch is an accident waiting to happen. Most often the straw method mentioned by Mick is sufficient for me.

Whenever I've added heat, it was usually from a hair dryer. I completely ruined a blank with a heat gun once. 

[Lyman X]

Yeah Chris, you're not supposed to fry it! Lol To be fair, I've heard of a VERY experienced and respected builder doing the same thing. You can do it with an alc. torch also, if not very careful.

[Mbirdsley]

On 12/20/2021 at 10:54 AM, JeffD said:

I see guys using a number of different methods for heating up finish to get bubbles. Everything from propane torches, lighters, to heat guns. Rod building suppliers say you need to use alcohol burners because lighters in particular, produce soot which will get into the finish. Is this a real concern or just a sales pitch?

To get bubbles "out" that is.

I mentioned this on a Facebook thread after I received my crb rod kit. Basically that alcohol burner just looks like an Improved Molotov cocktail.  I’ve tried using it while repairing my rods and the thing just looks dangerous. 
 

first rod repair I used it but, ended up using a lighter.

 

2nd rod guide repair I didn’t use any heat to get air bubbles out. 
 

I think the big thing in getting rid of the air bubbles is making a tiny aluminum bowl out of aluminum foil and pour the epoxy in it after it is mixed up. Seems the aluminum absorbs some of the heat from the epoxy being mixed up and spreads the epoxy out which helps to get rid of the bubbles 

[Chris Catignani]

On 1/1/2022 at 6:19 PM, Lyman X said:

Yeah Chris, you're not supposed to fry it! Lol To be fair, I've heard of a VERY experienced and respected builder doing the same thing. You can do it with an alc. torch also, if not very careful.

I bet his initials were @MickD ....just kiddin Mick.

[MickD]

8 minutes ago, Chris Catignani said:

I bet his initials were @MickD ....just kiddin Mick.

I have to admit to having used too much heat in the past. Before I got smart.  I now use very little. If any.

[Bankc]

It probably has to do with the lower burning temperature of alcohol.  I know many woodworkers and luthiers prefer it for bending and straightening wood due to it's lower burning temperature when compared to most other fuels.  They also use it for those stand-alone heaters in the catering industry, so they maintain a steady heat without cooking your food further.  The lower temperature is also why it's less likely to leave soot.  It gives you more control.  You can still use other fuels successfully, you just have to be more careful about overheating whatever you're working.  

[Lyman X]

It leaves less soot because it burns clean.

[Black Hawk Basser]

I use an alcohol burner.  I'm always wary of using a heat gun or blow dryer due to dust.  It has always worked for me.

[MickD]

On 1/5/2022 at 1:58 AM, Mbirdsley said:

lighters in particular, produce soot which will get into the finish. Is this a real concern or just a sales pitch?

To get bubbles "out" that is.

Yes they will produce soot, but only if you have the flame impinge directly onto the blank.  The right way to use them is to just pass the side of the flame close to the blank, not under it, as the blank is turned so as to expose all potential bubbles to the heat.  You will get no soot.

 

I have an alcohol burner and have not used it in many years.  Many builders really over-use heat.  Not much is required, if any.

[RB 77]

IMO, alcohol burner is old school and there are better options. Lighter is def a no go for me. I prefer to use a torch. Heat gun as a back up. A torch has a steep learning curve, but by far is the most efficient for me. The trick is to always keep that thing moving. 

[.ghoti.]

I think of an alcohol lamp as a disaster that has found a place to happen..  use straw. Breathe gently. Bubbles will go away. 

[RipHair]

I just finished my first rod build and had no issues using my trust BIC lighter. I used it many times on each coat - using Flex Coat light build. I figured even if it did get sooted, it might perhaps make for a cool design (something my rod lacks because I have nothing fancy).