Took reel apart for maintenance, now drag isn't working

[C5Longhorn]

I will work on this tomorrow.  Today's task was to bleed the brakes on 2 of my vehicles.

 

I think it will be AR or grease on drag washers or a combo of both.  

[C5Longhorn]

Well, I took it apart and still no luck.  Is it possible for the drag bearing washers to get flattened so the aren't curved enough?  

 

I don't think it is the AR bearing.  It is definitely my drag, I'm not getting enough pressure on it basically.  That would lead me to believe it is the spring, shaft collar, drag bearing spring washers, or drag washers them selves.

 

Also, I assume there is no drag difference between reel gear ratios (6.2 vs 7.4).

 

Thanks,

 

Rick

[newapti5]

Did you wipe off the extra grease on drag washers above the main gear as well as the ones under it? The drag washers on both sides of the main gear must have only tiny amount of grease.

[C5Longhorn]

4 minutes ago, newapti5 said:

Did you wipe off the extra grease on drag washers above the main gear as well as the ones under it? The drag washers on both sides of the main gear must have only tiny amount of grease.

 

I did wipe off excess grease on drag washers and also gear face parts.  Should I try to make the washers practically dry?

 

I did leave grease on the gear teeth.

[MN Fisher]

8 minutes ago, C5Longhorn said:

 

I did wipe off excess grease on drag washers and also gear face parts.  Should I try to make the washers practically dry?

 

I did leave grease on the gear teeth.

Grease on the drag washers should be barely noticeable.

 

Yes, leave grease on the teeth...should be able to see it there without having to 'search' for it.

 

[C5Longhorn]

I think I have it assembled correctly, but either have bad parts or still too much grease.  I'm not getting enough clamping torque on the spool.

 

How far on the shaft should the Star drag nut be?  I recognize that is what I'm turning with the Star drag to increase pressure.

 

Thanks, for all the replies, much appreciated.

 

Rick

[C5Longhorn]

Sometimes it's just not meant to be.  I took out the roller clutch bearing and had no idea it was composed of a bunch of tiny pencil lead type things.  They went all over and now won't stay in place.

 

Guess I'll be placing an order with Shimano.

[JustJames]

You said you assembled correctly but I still believed the keyed washer were not installed correctly as @FishTankmentioned at very beginning of the post.

Check this picture and you would see correctly install of shaped “washers () or )(“

[cyclops2]

I know this feeling very well. I bought 2 Ultra Light spinning reels.  Did not check them as wife wanted to hold & wrap them.  1 is normal. Other is a not working correctly automatic closing Bail Arm mechanism.  It is 1.5 years old in drawer. Took the bail system apart. BIG MISTAKE.  I ordered a replacement bail spring. Finally got the right tension. Cut off a end coil & rebent the end hook. 1/2 hour of spring work and it operates better than the good reel.  2 ? total hours on the 1/8" diameter CURVED spring.  3 tiny hands should be supplied with the reel.

[cyclops2]

Why would grease or oil be put on the friction discs ?  Normally friction surfaces are dry. Oil & grease defeat the friction action. 

I would call Technical Support of the company & ask for a E Mail describing the brake assembly & the Clutch Bearing assembly procedures.  

[garroyo130]

7 minutes ago, cyclops2 said:

Why would grease or oil be put on the friction discs ?  Normally friction surfaces are dry. Oil & grease defeat the friction action. 

 

A reels drag system's primary concern isn't stopping, but slowing down as smoothly and consistently as possible. You can run carbon fiber dry though ... 

[C5Longhorn]

Well, I dug myself a deeper hole and proceeded to remove the roller clutch bearing because I'm an idiot. I didn't realize there were so many small little lead/slate looking rollers, so now I'm waiting on a new one from Shimano.  Didn't expect it to cost $17, but live and learn.

 

I had remove everything again and was making sure there was nothing but residue grease on the washers before I decided to make the reel unusable.

[newapti5]

2 hours ago, C5Longhorn said:

I did wipe off excess grease on drag washers and also gear face parts.  Should I try to make the washers practically dry?

 

Sure, you can give it a try, see if the drag force improves. There aren't many parts in the drag mechanism, so if you crank the drag star all the way tight, with drag washers dry, and the spool is still slipping, then it's not the drag problem. It's the AR bearing, AKA clutch bearing. 

 

Normally, you don't need to put any grease in Shimano's AR bearing. If it's dirty, you don't have to disassemble the whole thing, just clean it with some Q-tip, and apply a tiny bit of light grease on it.

[Bird]

This sounds to familiar. 

 

I quit pulling the crank side plate many years ago because of this very reason, the reel never worked the same. 

 

Yearly maintenance of the worm gears and pulling the spool for cleaning and light oil has proven effective without issue. 

You'll likely have to send it in as I did. 

 

 

[cyclops2]

Und vey getzum mit som wacko sequence.

 

 Yob sekurity.   I am still learning that companies do not use the brightest light bulbs to write instruction booklets. Company is WRONG in their dehumidifier advice to stop icing with a fan.

[DaubsNU1]

Took apart my bait-caster a while back...got the drag washers re-installed wrong...

 

Needed to be like this )(

 

Had them like this  ))

 

Got that straightened out...but was still slipping...

 

On advice here...checked to make sure my braid was not spinning on the spool due to lack of good backing. 

 

Problem solved.  

 

 

[QED]

1 hour ago, cyclops2 said:

Why would grease or oil be put on the friction discs ?  Normally friction surfaces are dry. Oil & grease defeat the friction action. 

I would call Technical Support of the company & ask for a E Mail describing the brake assembly & the Clutch Bearing assembly procedures.  

To reduce stiction (i.e., static friction).  Ideally the startup drag friction should not be higher than the dynamic drag friction.

[bulldog1935]

14 hours ago, garroyo130 said:

 

A reels drag system's primary concern isn't stopping, but slowing down as smoothly and consistently as possible. You can run carbon fiber dry though ... 

Adding to this, though it's mainly a salt concern with over-classed tackle and long runs - overheated carbon washers can lock up - the purpose of a residual film of drag grease on drag washers is to prevent any single washer from doing all the work and overheating. which cascades into total drag lock-up. 

Some drag washer compositions are made to run dry, but carbontex isn't one of them. 

[cyclops2]

I Did a lot of web searching on the stuff . It is used both dry & light grease.  The grease allows cheaper poorer quality cloth to be used.  Profits count.

[TnRiver46]

On 12/19/2021 at 6:09 PM, bulldog1935 said:

Drag washers don't need excess grease, but only the thinnest residual you can leave on them after you remove the rest. 

The most important places to grease are the I.D. and O.D. edges. 

After this gets stacked, I apply main gear grease using a sable brush. 

 

A/R bearings are sensitive to viscosity.  Light oil can mess them up. and cause them to lock or slip. 

Now that stuff I’m very familiar with……… I’m like a marine with his rifle when it comes to my round abu’s 

[C5Longhorn]

UPDATE:

 

After waiting on Shimano parts, I replaced one of the drag spring washers and I think that fixed it.  My theory is the originals ones while assembled correctly were "flatter" than ideally they should be.  The new washer had more curvature and that did the trick.

 

Thanks to all the members here for the feedback and input.  This forum is great for helping each other out.

 

Rick

[Deleted account]

On 12/22/2021 at 6:58 PM, newapti5 said:

Sure, you can give it a try, see if the drag force improves. There aren't many parts in the drag mechanism, so if you crank the drag star all the way tight, with drag washers dry, and the spool is still slipping, then it's not the drag problem. It's the AR bearing, AKA clutch bearing.  

No, The AR bearing not working properly will cause the handle to rotate backwards either consistently or intermittently and has no bearing (pun intended) on how much drag is applied at the time, two unrelated issues.