New proposed limit in Oklahoma

[cyclops2]

The T V shows showing.......... Catch  Weigh and Release ........done as soon as the fish is unhooked.  WITH ...............That data sent to other competing fisherman is OUTSTANDING.  To USE the fish to make money & advertise the bass boats & motors being used.  That SHOULD BE the goal of the contest. ..........not............

 

I do not have any time to keep these money making fish alive.  Not my job or the law.  ...........BUZZ off of me.

[Bankc]

I'm betting the real reason for these limits is not to protect the fish populations, but rather to protect the people eating the fish from overexposure to toxic chemicals.  The older and larger a fish gets, the more toxic chemicals it absorbs.  And while some lakes are fairly safe, many in Oklahoma are very, very bad.  My brother very briefly worked for the OK Dept. of Water Quality, and he has lots of horror stories about how if a water supply failed a test due to some toxic chemical, they were more likely to just remove that chemical from the list of dangerous chemicals than confront the company dumping those chemicals into the water.  Or if they couldn't, they'd redefine a territory to take water samples from other sources to average them out, so the numbers wouldn't look so bad.

[Tennessee Boy]

I don't see how tournaments could get any more popular around here unless they build more ramps to support them.  It's been that way for 20 - 30 years and people have been predicting doom and gloom the whole time.  After all those tournaments we still have very healthy fisheries.  I just don't see any evidence that tournament fishing is harming fisheries.  At least not in Tennessee.   

 

People need to understand this quote from @jbsoonerfan's link from the Oklahoma DWR.

 

"Using data from more than 100 Oklahoma lakes, fisheries biologists have found that on average, 82 percent of largemouth bass in Oklahoma lakes are shorter than 16 inches. While reduced harvest of large bass is beneficial, harvesting bass under 16 inches may improve some fisheries by reducing competition among bass, so individuals grow faster and larger."

 

HARVESTING IS ESSENTIAL TO THE HEALTH OF SOME FISHERIES!!

 

 

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, Bankc said:

I'm betting the real reason for these limits is not to protect the fish populations, but rather to protect the people eating the fish from overexposure to toxic chemicals.  The older and larger a fish gets, the more toxic chemicals it absorbs.  And while some lakes are fairly safe, many in Oklahoma are very, very bad.  My brother very briefly worked for the OK Dept. of Water Quality, and he has lots of horror stories about how if a water supply failed a test due to some toxic chemical, they were more likely to just remove that chemical from the list of dangerous chemicals than confront the company dumping those chemicals into the water.  Or if they couldn't, they'd redefine a territory to take water samples from other sources to average them out, so the numbers wouldn't look so bad.

You also have to consider what water your store bought fish come from if you go down that road 

42 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I don't see how tournaments could get any more popular around here unless they build more ramps to support them.  It's been that way for 20 - 30 years and people have been predicting doom and gloom the whole time.  After all those tournaments we still have very healthy fisheries.  I just don't see any evidence that tournament fishing is harming fisheries.  At least not in Tennessee.   

 

People need to understand this quote from @jbsoonerfan's link from the Oklahoma DWR.

 

"Using data from more than 100 Oklahoma lakes, fisheries biologists have found that on average, 82 percent of largemouth bass in Oklahoma lakes are shorter than 16 inches. While reduced harvest of large bass is beneficial, harvesting bass under 16 inches may improve some fisheries by reducing competition among bass, so individuals grow faster and larger."

 

HARVESTING IS ESSENTIAL TO THE HEALTH OF SOME FISHERIES!!

 

 

People worry about fish/animals way more than the creatures themselves, it’s just human nature. The fish aren’t concerned and continue to thrive. There have been about 50-60 things that were supposed to wipe them out completely in my lifetime alone, no sign of it whatsoever 

 

every legitimate scientific study I’ve ever seen (and that’s way more than anyone ever should have to see) finds that fish populations are almost completely unaffected by rod and reel angling. Mother Nature is far more harsh (drought/flood)

[Junk Fisherman]

3 hours ago, Logan S said:

No, many don't want to deal with the headache of logistics and increased potential for dishonesty.  Catch-weigh-release isn't an instant fix and it has it's share of drawbacks.  

 

 

 

It's a near-instant fix for delayed mortality.  I am much more concerned with delayed mortality and the harm that tournaments do to fisheries than the logistics of catch-weigh-release and angler dishonesty.  

[Logan S]

9 minutes ago, Junk Fisherman said:

 

It's a near-instant fix for delayed mortality.  I am much more concerned with delayed mortality and the harm that tournaments do to fisheries than the logistics of catch-weigh-release and angler dishonesty.  

The DNR biologists seem to be OK with traditional weigh-ins provided that basic fish care is in place...Otherwise they wouldn't allow the waivers.  Their methods are confusing (as seen in this thread), but they are still allowing them.  

 

I was only trying to relate real world experience on running and participating in CWR events and why it's not just as easy as snapping your fingers and thinking CWR is a cure-all.    

[Bankc]

1 hour ago, TnRiver46 said:

You also have to consider what water your store bought fish come from if you go down that road 

No doubt.  And personally, I'd be much happier with limits imposed on specific lakes.  I know for a fact that the water quality, and the quality of the fish themselves, can shift to the extremes when moving from one lake to the next, even if they're just a few miles apart.  Like at Draper, my local lake, they recommend you not eat more than two LMB per month!  Yet, just a few miles away, there are several lakes without any such limits.  Of course, these limitations are not posted anywhere on the lake, and they're pretty difficult to find online.  So you almost have to know about it ahead of time to even think to look it up. You have to go to the OK DEQ website to find out which fish you can eat:

 

https://www.deq.ok.gov/state-environmental-laboratory-services/environmental-public-health-information/healthy-fish-consumption-in-oklahoma/consumption-recommendations/

 

Yet all of the information on what size and how many fish you can CATCH, plus all of the other fishing regulations, licensing, and fishing reports is on the ODWC website:

 

https://www.wildlifedepartment.com/fishing

 

Same thing with fish sizes.  I know in most of lakes I fish near OKC, catching a fish above 16" is very rare.  Less than 1 in 100.  But if you drive another hour or so outside of town, away from all of the people, it's generally a lot more common.

 

So whatever their reasoning behind this, I'm all for some regulation, as it's clearly needed in certain areas.  I just wish they wouldn't apply it as a blanket rule across the entire state.  

[cyclops2]

The pollution levels around the start of the St. Lawrence at Lake Ontario are so bad. Eating 0 fish is highly recommended if you want to create a child.  There are loads of WAR TIME chemicals along the shore and feeder streams.

 

C & R  is safest way.............BUUTT.............Where & how do you get TRULY none contaminated meats and vegetables ?  

 

 

[TnRiver46]

2 minutes ago, cyclops2 said:

The pollution levels around the start of the St. Lawrence at Lake Ontario are so bad. Eating 0 fish is highly recommended if you want to create a child.  There are loads of WAR TIME chemicals along the shore and feeder streams.

 

C & R  is safest way.............BUUTT.............Where & how do you get TRULY none contaminated meats and vegetables ?  

 

 

After all the stories I’ve heard from my

friends in the restaurant and grocery industry, I’d take my chances on the river (and I do)

[Munkin]

20 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

So you can only keep one over 16, can you keep any under 16? 

 

Black Hills Lake Seneca here in Merryland has the weirdest slot limit. One fish over 15" and 4 under 11" nothing in between. Normal keeper size for the state is 12" except some trophy areas.

 

Allen

[cyclops2]

The SLOT size logic was the result of finding out which SIZE FEMALE laid the eggs that hatched out the MOST SURVIVABLE  juveniles.     Just like in any animal & plant. There is a peak period when survival is highest of the group.

[gim]

11 minutes ago, cyclops2 said:

The SLOT size logic was the result of finding out which SIZE FEMALE laid the eggs that hatched out the MOST SURVIVABLE  juveniles.     Just like in any animal & plant. There is a peak period when survival is highest of the group.

Yes, and there is also a peak reproduction rate which is often in the restricted slot for certain species here too.  Its in place to protect fish that are at their peak of maturity to maximize reproduction potential.  Bear in mind that this is often not specific to any one body of water or any one area of the country; different lakes and rivers are different ecosystems and one size fits all is not effective.

 

Quite often, we are harvesting fish BEFORE they even get to that age.  So then natural reproduction goes down.  That is also why there are closed seasons for certain species of game fish here; to protect them during their spawning cycle.

[cyclops2]

That is why we see so many  videos of many experts catching so many big female spawning fish.  Our Gobies LOVE spawning bed fishing !!  As you play macho man for the camera .  25 Gobies dart in to the bed and eat eggs or newly hatched.   Thank you say the Gobies. 

New York does a good job of adjusting the Spawning Bed closed time as needed.  Most of us do not play stupid to a change of the closing and opening dates.

[CrashVector]

If fish kills after tournaments are an issue, ban tournaments fishing.

 

Wasting a natural resource that belongs to everyone for clout and trophies should be illegal.

 

Commercialization is a good way to ruin a body of water for everyone not trying to make a buck.

[gim]

1 hour ago, CrashVector said:

If fish kills after tournaments are an issue, ban tournaments fishing.

 

Except there is a way to hold a tournament without fish kills.  MLF does this, kayak tournaments do this, and so do several other circuits for a variety of species.  No need to completely ban the tournament, just reformat the way they're held.

[king fisher]

      Most lakes in Mexico are are good fisheries for two reasons.  1. The climate is great, and 2. The bass are stupid because of very little sport fishing preasure.   Fisheries management has nothing to do with it.  The lodges will tell American Anglers all kinds of BS about how the lake was intende to produce bass, and that catch and release of all bass is required by law.  They will also tell the anglers, the bass are to smart to get caught in the gill nets intendended to catch Talapia.  The Angler has a great time, and catches way more big bass than he does at home so naturaly believes what he is told.

       The truth is the nets catch a huge number of bass, and the locals don't even know how to spell catch and release.  Just go to the nearest village an look at the fish market.  There will be hundreds of bass as well as Tilaia for sale.  Go to a resturant and bass will be on the menue.  If one of these lakes had anywhere near the sport fish pressure that lakes in the states have the fishing would be a complete zero.

      The fact that what bass survive the nets, have an abundance of warm weather and prey to get big, and most have never even seen a lure makes for great fishing.

      I know everyone can complain about the management of their local lake, or State, but all in all most States do as well as they can considering the pressure put on the fisheries by sport fisherman.  Instead of complaining about bad fisheries management, it would be more productive to participate in creel surveys, help promote catch and release when recommended by professional biologists, keep a limit when recommended by professionals, obey size limits and other laws implemented to provide a healthy fishery, improve tournament practices, by participating in a local club, and do what ever you can to keep the water as pollution free as possible.

        I used to complain about management of fisheries all the time when I lived in the States.  I now realize how lucky I was to have competent professionals doing their very best to help sustain a resource for the public.  Next time you want to complain about a State trying something new in management, just think how well you would like to loose a dozen crankbaits to an old gill net full of dead rotten bass.  Then consider how lucky you may be.

        

      

[jbsoonerfan]

@king fisher That's an excellent post!!!! 

[CrashVector]

6 hours ago, cyclops2 said:

That is why we see so many  videos of many experts catching so many big female spawning fish.  Our Gobies LOVE spawning bed fishing !!  As you play macho man for the camera .  25 Gobies dart in to the bed and eat eggs or newly hatched.   Thank you say the Gobies. 

New York does a good job of adjusting the Spawning Bed closed time as needed.  Most of us do not play stupid to a change of the closing and opening dates.

Wish they did that here too.

 

Too many people go catching spawning bass for photo ops.

 

 

[rangerjockey]

I guess your talking about bed fishing ? I'm not a big fan of it but if I see a nice one on the bed she's going to get a pitch or 6. 

 One thing for sure there are a lot more folks trying it than are are actually good at it. You have to be able to read the fishes behavior and have a lot more patience than I do.  There's something about looking at them that drives people nuts. Fish get caught off the bed just by casting to the bank and dragging something through the bed without actually knowing it's there.

 

[TnRiver46]

Back in the 70s a ten fish limit for 20 pounds was a monster bag. Fast forward: after 50 years of weigh ins, 5 fish for 20 lbs will get you 33rd place at several locations like the Saint Lawrence river. I think people want it to be a problem worse than it actually is 

[gim]

14 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Back in the 70s a ten fish limit for 20 pounds was a monster bag. Fast forward: after 50 years of weigh ins, 5 fish for 20 lbs will get you 33rd place at several locations like the Saint Lawrence river. I think people want it to be a problem worse than it actually is 

 

Valid point.  However, there's a lot more factors to it than just tournaments.  We've greatly improved many of our waterways in terms of water quality, and many more recreational anglers practice catch and release than the previous generation.  There are other factors at play too like the introduction of invasive species that were not present many years ago.

 

I am of the preference that we should try to prevent the collapse of a fishery rather than try to deal with the problem after it has occurred because sometimes we can't fix a problem after its already happened.

[Tennessee Boy]

 

40 minutes ago, gimruis said:

I am of the preference that we should try to prevent the collapse of a fishery rather than try to deal with the problem after it has occurred because sometimes we can't fix a problem after its already happened.

I can't speak for other states but I don't think it's possible in Tennessee for a fishery to collapse because of legal overfishing.   Our wildlife management agency monitors our lakes and does a great job adjusting fishing regulations to improve them.  Fishing pressure naturally moves away from fisheries that have problems.  We've seen that happen here with Kentucky lake.  I few years ago it was a world class lake.  Asian carp and the lost of aquatic vegetation have taken their toll.  There hasn't been a major pro tournament on Kentucky lake in several years.  I personally haven't fished there since 2019.  The fishing suffered much more than the actual reduction in the number of fish in the lake according to the data.  From what I've heard,  the lake is recovering.

 

The notion that a lake is going to collapse because a large number of tournament anglers are catching huge limits  every weekend is nonsense.  If tournament anglers are having success then the lake is doing just fine.

 

It could be different in other parts of the country.  Some states may not have the quality wildlife management that we have here.  Some may not have as many lakes for fishermen to choose from.

[gim]

I agree @Tennessee Boy. The same problem is likely occurring up here with certain species that receive an intense amount of pressure and legal harvest during the winter ice fishing season.

[TnRiver46]

3 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

 

I can't speak for other states but I don't think it's possible in Tennessee for a fishery to collapse because of legal overfishing.   Our wildlife management agency monitors our lakes and does a great job adjusting fishing regulations to improve them.  Fishing pressure naturally moves away from fisheries that have problems.  We've seen that happen here with Kentucky lake.  I few years ago it was a world class lake.  Asian carp and the lost of aquatic vegetation have taken their toll.  There hasn't been a major pro tournament on Kentucky lake in several years.  I personally haven't fished there since 2019.  The fishing suffered much more than the actual reduction in the number of fish in the lake according to the data.  From what I've heard,  the lake is recovering.

 

The notion that a lake is going to collapse because a large number of tournament anglers are catching huge limits  every weekend is nonsense.  If tournament anglers are having success then the lake is doing just fine.

 

It could be different in other parts of the country.  Some states may not have the quality wildlife management that we have here.  Some may not have as many lakes for fishermen to choose from.

Yes, our river is ancient so it seems to laugh in the face of any challenges. I’m honestly surprised it hasn’t broken through dams by now…………

 

I can’t speak much to natural lakes because we don’t have any. Being smaller I guess they are more fragile but the massive interconnected waterways seem like they would be very resilient 

[CrashVector]

6 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

 

I can't speak for other states but I don't think it's possible in Tennessee for a fishery to collapse because of legal overfishing.   Our wildlife management agency monitors our lakes and does a great job adjusting fishing regulations to improve them.  Fishing pressure naturally moves away from fisheries that have problems.  We've seen that happen here with Kentucky lake.  I few years ago it was a world class lake.  Asian carp and the lost of aquatic vegetation have taken their toll.  There hasn't been a major pro tournament on Kentucky lake in several years.  I personally haven't fished there since 2019.  The fishing suffered much more than the actual reduction in the number of fish in the lake according to the data.  From what I've heard,  the lake is recovering.

 

The notion that a lake is going to collapse because a large number of tournament anglers are catching huge limits  every weekend is nonsense.  If tournament anglers are having success then the lake is doing just fine.

 

It could be different in other parts of the country.  Some states may not have the quality wildlife management that we have here.  Some may not have as many lakes for fishermen to choose from.

 

We have tons of waterways, etc here, but people chose to prioritize recreational fishing over tournaments here, and I'm glad.

 

I'm not generally opposed to tournaments, but NOT at the expense of recreational fishing.  Any limits placed designed to increase or attract tournament fishermen can kick rocks imo.  Recreational should always come first.