1/8-1 1/2 oz?

[jimmyjoe]

32 minutes ago, T-Billy said:

I've gone all in on the Tharp series this year. I think they're outstanding for their price point

 

   @T-Billy, I'm gonna try and remember to talk to you next year, after you've had more time on those rods. I might need to pick your brain.  ?            jj

 

4 hours ago, new2BC4bass said:

I was under the impression that Moderate actions cast further.  I will say my older Powell Endurance 7'2" MH-EF gets very good distance.  I just had to do a little research.    This is from an article by a saltwater guy.

 

"For casting accuracy, fast and extra-fast action rods provide more speed and power to pitch a lure to a target, thwarting any wind-related deviation. However, their stiffness reduces casting distance, compared to medium and slow actions, unless heavy lures or baits are used..."

 

"However, the action ­— determined by how far down the blank (starting at the tip) the bend of the rod extends — is the primary contributor to a rod’s performance. In essence, rods with fast to extra-fast action are best suited for casting accuracy and solid hook-sets with large baits and lures intended for bigger fish. A medium to slow action is prime for extended casting distance, pitching live baits, and working smaller lures and baits."

 

"Medium to slow actions often promote better ­hook-sets, especially with lighter and smaller lures. With fast and extra-fast rods, anglers sometimes pull the lure away from a fish during the strike because of the rod’s stiffness. By comparison, that little bit of extra time, albeit brief, that it takes to come tight with a medium- to slow-action rod is often enough for a fish to fully engulf a lure, which in turn results in solid hookups."

 

   This ties in exactly with what I was told and .... so far .... what I've seen.  Thnx.        jj

[T-Billy]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjoe said:

 

   @T-Billy, I'm gonna try and remember to talk to you next year, after you've had more time on those rods. I might need to pick your brain.  ?            jj

Lol. Picking my brain won't take long!!! Feel free to PM me if you want, or resurrect this thread and we can all participate. Those B-Hittay's will see lots of use starting in April. 

[MickD]

Keep in mind that everything you see in this forum and in most articles is simply someone's opinion.  The articles that tout X-fast as casting farther or more accurately are usually without anything resembling rigorous testing procedures or data.  My advice would be to not base any purchasing decisions on most of the stuff out here, but to gain as much personal experience as you can to lead you in the right direction for what is important to you and what you want to do.

 

Buying with techniques and personal preferences in mind is, in my OPINION, much more important than trying to maximize casting distance, or that elusive characteristic, accuracy.

 

 

[jimmyjoe]

1 hour ago, MickD said:

Buying with techniques ..... in mind is, in my OPINION, much more important than trying to maximize casting distance,

 

   True. What I've found out is that a do-it-all rod design is something that most (not all) manufacturers have abandoned today. The search is, therefore, a little more difficult.           jj

[T-Billy]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjoe said:

 

   True. What I've found out is that a do-it-all rod design is something that most (not all) manufacturers have abandoned today. The search is, therefore, a little more difficult.           jj

I think Dobyns is a good place to look if you're looking to fish both bottom contact and moving baits with one rod. Nice soft tips even on their fast graphite rods. That helps with moving baits, while still working well for bottom contact. The 735 Fury is a solid all around workhorse at a fair price. You can cover alot of ground with that stick.

[flyfisher]

12 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

@jimmyjoe

Exactly untrue. 

3' of fly line is less than 1/10 the weight of the 30' fly line belly, because of the fly line front taper. 

A good progressive dry-fly taper Accurately casts the leader alone - the leader can be 14'

 

 

remember when I said "if you come from fly rods" - you clearly don't, dude. 

Weight is weight, whether it's 3' of fly line = 1/32 oz

or

30' of fly line = 3/4 oz. 

You're talking to the guy who can shoot a 30' 250-gr head on his RPLX7 to 140'

Is this supposed to be a big deal or something?  I mean for a 7wt rod 250grain head is severely overlining the rod and as long as you are patient with the rod loading up, it will shoot that length of line pretty easily.  Overlining a rod is simply a way to slow down the action of the rod to cover up casting mistakes on faster blanks.  

[new2BC4bass]

12 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

If you want to see the real joke, read how "feely" fly fishers describe para-taper rods. 

From what I've read, Slow, Moderate and Medium-Fast are "feely".  Go to a Fast rod and most have to overline the rod for it to get "feely".

 

I've just started to get into fly fishing.  The gear!  Haven't made it out yet.    Considering a vise and doing some tying over the winter.  Black Friday sales are coming up, but I haven't done any Christmas shopping yet.    So I may have to wait on the fly tying stuff.

[jimmyjoe]

1 hour ago, T-Billy said:

I think Dobyns is a good place to look if you're looking to fish both bottom contact and moving baits with one rod.

 

   I'm not so much looking for a rod to use both bottom and moving as much as I'm looking for a rod that will be competent with a wide range of weights.

   I fish from shore. When I fish lakes, I get there at or before dawn and take off walking until lunch. Tramping around the trails (and off the trails into the grass), I want to take only one rod with me.

   Maybe I'm asking too much, but I'd like a rod that would 1) cast super flukes (they weigh 1/4 oz.) a decent distance,  2) cast a 1/4 oz. spoon as well as a 1 oz. spoon, 3) handle whatever is in-between, and 4) yank a fish out of blowdowns with authority when need be.

   And yes, I'd like it to be good-to-go with crankbaits, too.

  

   That's my idea of a do-it-all rod. I haven't decided whether I'd prefer nylon or braid for line yet. Think I got a chance?                jj

  

[Functional]

Honestly the ARK Tharp Hammer seems to fit most of that. It's a "fast" tip but not nearly as fast as a St croix and the more I fish it its a bit faster than my dobyns sierra. Sensitivity for me I'd put close to my St. Croix Victory, the victory has a bit more of a pronounced tic when you get a strike but you the Tharp gives you the same feedback just a a thud rather than a tic. It's got a good backbone and with the right reel I've had no complaints with distance. I've run 5/8 Oz jigs with a beefy trailer and while I'd say that's probably the upper limit or close to it I think you'd be fine tossing a 1oz spoon occasionally. I've fished a shaky head just fine but primarily it's seen use as a 5/16 jig, 3/8 jig and 1/4oz spinners and it's one of my favorite rods. 

 

If you grab it black Friday from TW you'll have it for sub $100 which is a steal. 

[jimmyjoe]

   Funny, but we keep coming back around to those ARK Tharp series rods, again and again. I'm getting more curious of them as time goes on. The Hammer, though, doesn't look (on paper) as if it would be any good for cranks. Is it?        jj

[Functional]

7 hours ago, jimmyjoe said:

   Funny, but we keep coming back around to those ARK Tharp series rods, again and again. I'm getting more curious of them as time goes on. The Hammer, though, doesn't look (on paper) as if it would be any good for cranks. Is it?        jj

T-Billy might be able to comment more but if you throw a lot of cranks the Money Maker might be better...little slower tip than Hammer and in my opinion the hammer could do squarebills pretty well. 

 

Although... at about $93 a piece for Black Friday you could probably get the Hammer and Bhitty and cover everything you'd want to throw up to one ounce in 2 rods. One way or another you will have to compromise something to get an all in one rod. If it has to be one rod pick one that fits the majority of what you fish most of the time. I'm sure you know that but it's worth  mentioning again.  

[Catt]

9 hours ago, jimmyjoe said:

I'm looking for a rod that will be competent with a wide range of weights.

 

Diawia Tatula

TTU711MHXB

7'1" Medium Heavy X-Fast 

1/4-1 oz

 

TTU731MHFB 

7'3" Medium Heavy Fast

1/4-1 oz

 

I've thrown Flukes to buzzbaits & frogs on both with no issues. Never thrown crankbaits on em cause crankbaits don't work to well in heavy cover.

 

Because of limited time I bank fish a lot & generally care two setup. I carry a Powell Inferno 703C Medium Heavy X-Fast for plastics & the Tatula 7'1" handles everything else.

 

I compared the Tatula to everything mentioned hear & none came close.

[jimmyjoe]

33 minutes ago, Functional said:

. One way or another you will have to compromise something to get an all in one rod.

 

   Yeah, I know. I'm just trying to figure out which way to go with the least compromises. I'm aware that it's difficult finding just one.  Thnx,              jj

31 minutes ago, Catt said:

 

Diawia Tatula

TTU711MHXB

7'1" Medium Heavy X-Fast 

1/4-1 oz

 

TTU731MHFB 

7'3" Medium Heavy Fast

1/4-1 oz

 

I've thrown Flukes to buzzbaits & frogs on both with no issues. Never thrown crankbaits on em cause crankbaits don't work to well in heavy cover.

 

Because of limited time I bank fish a lot & generally care two setup. I carry a Powell Inferno 703C Medium Heavy X-Fast for plastics & the Tatula 7'1" handles everything else.

 

I compared the Tatula to everything mentioned hear & none came close.

 

   There's a retailer about 75 miles away who handles a few Tatula rods! I know it's not many, but I'll make a call and see just which ones what he has. Thanks, @Catt!

[king fisher]

      I think the higher the price of the rod, the smaller the window is for lure weight rating.  The cheaper the rod the larger the window.

     This makes sense if you are trying to sell rods.  A person that wants an expensive rod is likely to know what he wants, and only wants to use that rod for a specific weight range.

      A beginner fisherman usually wants one rod that will do everything.  Of course there is no such rod, but if the manufacturer lists the rod with a large line and weight rating, than the person most likely wont know the difference, thinking they have the one rod fits all.  I fished lures from 1/8 oz to 1oz on my zebco 33 combo when I was a kid and didn't' have a clue, that 1 oz lures were way to heavy for that rod.  I just adjusted my cast to a slow lob and thought I had a great rod.  As I started buying more expensive rods, I became more picky.  The recommended line size and lure weights became more accurate.  The extreme competition in the $100 class rods have led companies to start expanding the ratings, to try and get an edge over the competition.  At one time rods in that price range were more accurate in their ratings.  It will be interesting to see how far this trend goes.  

[MickD]

17 hours ago, jimmyjoe said:

do-it-all rod design is something that most (not all) manufacturers have abandoned today.

I think they are marketing technique-specific rods much stronger now.  The fact is that most rods (most, not all) are good do-it-all rods that can be used effectively and efficiently for many techniques.  But that doesn't sell rods.  

1 hour ago, king fisher said:

higher the price of the rod, the smaller the window is for lure weight rating.

I think it's more the action than the price.  The Point Blank series of blanks are high-priced and have larger windows than most blanks.  Because of their X-fast action, in my opinion.  I have an RX6 Rainshadow  that has a similar action to one of the Point Blanks and it acts a lot like the Point Blank with respect to lure weight "window."  However, its price was only about half as much as the Point Blank, and it is heavier and less sensitive.

16 hours ago, flyfisher said:

Overlining a rod is simply a way to slow down the action of the rod to cover up casting mistakes on faster blanks.  

Has nothing to do with getting the rod to load properly for the length of line being cast?  As in making it better casting with shorter line out?  

[Derek1]

Look into the bps carbonlite 2,0. The mh is 1/4-1 ounce. For two years it was my only casting rod. Plenty sensitive for bottom contact baits. And just soft enough for some treble hooks. It handled every kind of bait in its weight range decent enough. As another plus it’s tough as nails for beating the bank. 10 year warranty, just bring it in and get a new one. I have three of them. I don’t think you’ll sacrifice much in any direction with this rod. When I want to bring just one rod, allot of times it’s one of them cause they let you do allot. 

[flyfisher]

8 hours ago, MickD said:

I think they are marketing technique-specific rods much stronger now.  The fact is that most rods (most, not all) are good do-it-all rods that can be used effectively and efficiently for many techniques.  But that doesn't sell rods.  

I think it's more the action than the price.  The Point Blank series of blanks are high-priced and have larger windows than most blanks.  Because of their X-fast action, in my opinion.  I have an RX6 Rainshadow  that has a similar action to one of the Point Blanks and it acts a lot like the Point Blank with respect to lure weight "window."  However, its price was only about half as much as the Point Blank, and it is heavier and less sensitive.

Has nothing to do with getting the rod to load properly for the length of line being cast?  As in making it better casting with shorter line out?  

it can but the post was talking about bombing 140' casts.  I personally have never found the need to overline a rod in the past 10-15 years.  Lines being developed with short more concentrated weight tapers solved the need to overline a rod.   My current favorite line is the Scientific Anglers Titan and it does a great job at all distances in the 4 different weights I use it.

[T-Billy]

On 11/22/2021 at 4:36 PM, jimmyjoe said:

I'm gonna try and remember to talk to you next year, after you've had more time on those rods. I might need to pick your brain.  ?            jj

 

Rods arrived today. After being able to compare the B-Hittay side by side with my MH Winches, the ARK is slightly faster, and has a bit more backbone. It falls nicely in between the MH Winch and my BPS 7'3" H crankin stick. I think I'm gonna be very happy with them for chatterbaits and ploppers but they're definitely not an "all around" type of rod.

The Money Maker is a versatile rod. It'll handle flukes OK and excels with T Rigs. It has plenty of power for heavy cover, but while the tip isn't super fast it's pretty stiff for treble hook baits. Not sure it's what you're looking for.

Derek1 made a good suggestion with the BPS Carbonlite 2.0. I have a 7'6" MH that's seen lots of use over a few seasons and it's held up well. Pretty sensitive, good backbone with a nice soft tip. Solid choice in it's price range. I didn't buy more because I'm not a fan of the Wynn grips, but lots of folks love'em.

[jimmyjoe]

This is to the person who PM'd me about this subject. I accidentally deleted your message, as well as my reply, and I forgot your usename. I know, I know ...... I'm old.  ?

   I'll answer your suggestion here.

 

   I have the 7'-06" Daiwa Fuego rod, H/F, 1/4-1 and 1/2. I've had it set up for heavy stuff, and never even thought to try it for lighter weights. Today I put a Curado 200 on it, loaded with 12 lb. Big Game line.

   I already knew this would cast 1/2 oz. well, with good enough distance and fairly good accuracy. I tried a Super Fluke, and not only did the distance shrink, but the accuracy was miserable. A heavy 1/4 oz. spinner was about the same way.

   This is not the rod for small treble hooks. Micro Double Cowgirls and Musky Killers? Yes. KVD Magnum Squarebills, 8.0? Yes. Even 1/4 oz. spinnerbaits casted OK, and I'm sure they'll hold. But not smaller trebles. It's too stiff.

   So for me, this is a 1/2-1+ oz. rod, not a 1/4-1+ oz. rod.

 

   But thank you for the suggestion!  Now we know.  ?          jj

[Phil77]

On 11/22/2021 at 7:13 PM, jimmyjoe said:

 

   I'm not so much looking for a rod to use both bottom and moving as much as I'm looking for a rod that will be competent with a wide range of weights.

   I fish from shore. When I fish lakes, I get there at or before dawn and take off walking until lunch. Tramping around the trails (and off the trails into the grass), I want to take only one rod with me.

   Maybe I'm asking too much, but I'd like a rod that would 1) cast super flukes (they weigh 1/4 oz.) a decent distance,  2) cast a 1/4 oz. spoon as well as a 1 oz. spoon, 3) handle whatever is in-between, and 4) yank a fish out of blowdowns with authority when need be.

   And yes, I'd like it to be good-to-go with crankbaits, too.

  

   That's my idea of a do-it-all rod. I haven't decided whether I'd prefer nylon or braid for line yet. Think I got a chance?                jj

  

My pond rod is a Duckett Incite 7MH. It will handle your weight range with ease. I've caught a few close to 5# and brought in an 11# channel cat with it. I've thrown weightless flukes and paddle tails a tad bit over 1oz with no problems. 

[jimmyjoe]

1 hour ago, Phil77 said:

My pond rod is a Duckett Incite 7MH. It will handle your weight range with ease. I've caught a few close to 5# and brought in an 11# channel cat with it. I've thrown weightless flukes and paddle tails a tad bit over 1oz with no problems. 

 

   I admit that I had not even considered Duckett. Their Green Ghost and Micro Magic had the worst guides to use in slop.

   I see the Incite has regular guides. I'll take a closer look at them. Thnx.              jj