Bigger blades = bigger fish?

[QED]

23 hours ago, RDB said:

[stuff deleted]  If you like willows but want to fish slower, you can use flatter (less cupped) blades which create more resistance.  They also start spinning quicker on start up.

Flatter blades create more resistance than more cupped blades?  Not in my experience.  The latter have greater frontal area and greater surface area when comparing blades with the same perimeter size/shape.

[LrgmouthShad]

13 minutes ago, QED said:

Flatter blades create more resistance than more cupped blades?  Not in my experience.  The latter have greater frontal area and greater surface area when comparing blades with the same perimeter size/shape.

Hmmmm. I think I’ve seen arguments for both sides. The flatter blades I have appear to vibrate more 

33 minutes ago, Munkin said:

 

Giving out all the secrets. 

 

Allen 

Keep em coming! I’m taking notes. I won’t tell anybody ?. Me and my kayak ain’t gonna bother nobody. 

[QED]

8 minutes ago, LrgmouthShad said:

Hmmmm. I think I’ve seen arguments for both sides. The flatter blades I have appear to vibrate more [stuff deleted]

Please explain the fluid dynamics/physics on why this would be so.  My experience runs counter to yours and the physics is what it is.

[LrgmouthShad]

23 hours ago, RDB said:

If you like willows but want to fish slower, you can use flatter (less cupped) blades which create more resistance.  They also start spinning quicker on start up.

If I’m not mistaken though, while flatter blades vibrate more, the cupped blades turn more easily and so will turn at slower speeds. Hmmm. I would like to see some more opinions on this

2 minutes ago, QED said:

Please explain the fluid dynamics/physics on why this would be so.  My experience runs counter to yours and physics is what it is.

I’ll have to review my class notes. ?. I don’t have an answer for you and will double check when on the water next 

[LrgmouthShad]

58 minutes ago, Munkin said:

 

Giving out all the secrets. 

 

Allen 

PS where can I find these “slow” or very flat blades? Very intriguing considering that the first couple of seconds are critical to how I fish spinnerbaits

 

Edit: that one Stanley vibrawedge I got looks like it could be considered to have “slow” willows. Hmmmm

[Munkin]

43 minutes ago, QED said:

Please explain the fluid dynamics/physics on why this would be so.  My experience runs counter to yours and the physics is what it is.

 

This is what I thought as well when I bought them. Figured they would have a tighter turn radius good for burning. They turned out to be the opposite swinging wider, having more lift, and spinning at a lower speed.

 

Allen 

[LrgmouthShad]

10 minutes ago, Munkin said:

 

This is what I thought as well when I bought them. Figured they would have a tighter turn radius good for burning. They turned out to be the opposite swinging wider, having more lift, and spinning at a lower speed.

 

Allen 

So basically I been using the wrong blades for slow rolling this whole time. Allen how much would you be willing to talk over messaging?

[QED]

41 minutes ago, Munkin said:

 

This is what I thought as well when I bought them. Figured they would have a tighter turn radius good for burning. They turned out to be the opposite swinging wider, having more lift, and spinning at a lower speed.

 

Allen 

So I'm not a fluid dynamics expert, but consider this gedankenexperiment.  Consider a perfectly flat blade vs a cupped blade of identical perimeter size/shape and thickness.  The frontal area of the flat blade should be less, so less direct drag on the former using simple Cd*A analysis (though the Cd of the cupped blade isn't necessarily higher than a flat blade).  The cupped blade should have more "lift" via Bernoulli so it should move off-axis more so than a flat blade, which should cause even more drag.  So what am I missing?

[CrashVector]

Huge baits only mean big fish because you weed out the smaller ones.

 

Big bass will hit a tiny Ned rig, but only the biggest bass can swallow a huge lure.

 

The big baits = big fish thing is a myth.  All it does is ensure that the only fish you'll catch are the biggest ones.

 

[LrgmouthShad]

6 minutes ago, QED said:

So I'm not a fluid dynamics expert

Neither are we. I watch spinny thing go round and round and try to stick sharp object into fish's bluegill-hole.

 

Actually though, I really want to test this out for real next time I'm on the water and pay close attention to whats happening. Wouldnt be the first time ive been proven wrong if I see results different than i expect

[QED]

1 minute ago, LrgmouthShad said:

Neither are we. I watch spinny thing go round and round and try to stick sharp object into fish's bluegill-hole.

 

Actually though, I really want to test this out for real next time I'm on the water and pay close attention to whats happening. Wouldnt be the first time ive been proven wrong if I see results different than i expect

I agree that empirical measurement trumps simple physics/math models.

[jimmyjoe]

   Everyone is talking about Colorado, Indiana and willow blades.  No one mentions the chopper blades, which can be deadly, or the Presto blades, which were used on old-timey spinnerbaits. (Yes, "old-timey" is a thing. Look it up. ?)

   I've also experimented with Mepps (French) blades, and mepps-style blades. (Yes, there is a difference.) These blades spin at a faster rpm than the aforementioned designs.  I never caught a fish on them.

 

   It seems that the relatively slower rotation of Colorado and willow blades (and chopper blades) gives off a flash that is relatively slower also. I'm not a fish so I can't be certain, but I'm guessing that slower flash is important. 

   Kinda ties in with the slower frequency thing, no?        jj

[LrgmouthShad]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjoe said:

I'm not a fish so I can't be certain, but I'm guessing that slower flash is important. 

   Kinda ties in with the slower frequency thing, no?        jj

YES. You and I been thinking alike in this thread. I have thought that a slower retrieve not only gives the bass more of a chance to get the spinnerbait, but also gives a different flash that I prefer and that the fish may prefer under some circumstances. But blades that spin too fast just dont have the same appeal like those you mentioned

[jimmyjoe]

2 minutes ago, LrgmouthShad said:

YES. You and I been thinking alike in this thread.

 

   My dear young man; if you knew me better, that would serve to scare the living daylights out of you!  ? ? ?                     jj

[CrashVector]

15 minutes ago, jimmyjoe said:

   Everyone is talking about Colorado, Indiana and willow blades.  No one mentions the chopper blades, which can be deadly, or the Presto blades, which were used on old-timey spinnerbaits. (Yes, "old-timey" is a thing. Look it up. ?)

   I've also experimented with Mepps (French) blades, and mepps-style blades. (Yes, there is a difference.) These blades spin at a faster rpm than the aforementioned designs.

 

   And I never caught a fish on them.

 

   It seems that the relatively slower rotation of Colorado and willow blades (and chopper blades) gives off a flash that is relatively slower also. I'm not a fish so I can't be certain, but I'm guessing that slower flash is important. 

   Kinda ties in with the slower frequency thing, no?        jj

 

I LOVE Presto-bladed spinner baits!

 

The few crankbaits/hard lures I have are from the '50s and '60s

[LrgmouthShad]

Where are hildebrandt's on the spectrum of slow to fast blades? I have some booyah coverts, both double indianas and single colorados

[RDB]

10 hours ago, LrgmouthShad said:

Where are hildebrandt's on the spectrum of slow to fast blades? I have some booyah coverts, both double indianas and single colorados

I think most off the shelf willow blades are pretty standard.  If you want a shallow cup, your best bet is probably eBay. The Barlow’s in Dallas used to sell them…not sure if they still do.  You may find something if you Google slow willow or shallow cup willow.

[Munkin]

13 hours ago, QED said:

So I'm not a fluid dynamics expert, but consider this gedankenexperiment.  Consider a perfectly flat blade vs a cupped blade of identical perimeter size/shape and thickness.  The frontal area of the flat blade should be less, so less direct drag on the former using simple Cd*A analysis (though the Cd of the cupped blade isn't necessarily higher than a flat blade).  The cupped blade should have more "lift" via Bernoulli so it should move off-axis more so than a flat blade, which should cause even more drag.  So what am I missing?

 

If you want to do a scientific experiment and post your results here I will send you the baits. Both will be identical except for blade cup. 

 

Allen

[LrgmouthShad]

49 minutes ago, Munkin said:

 

If you want to do a scientific experiment and post your results here I will send you the baits. Both will be identical except for blade cup. 

 

Allen

Do you make your own blades?

[Cgolf]

This thread is evil, as I know have a roughly 75 buck order of just different blades from barlows ready to order sometime this month.

[LrgmouthShad]

57 minutes ago, cgolf said:

This thread is evil, as I know have a roughly 75 buck order of just different blades from barlows ready to order sometime this month.

Blades from barlows? No idea what you’re talking about. 
 

btw I found a particularly “slow” Colorado blade I have 

[J Francho]

14 minutes ago, LrgmouthShad said:

Blades from barlows? No idea what you’re talking about.

https://barlowstackle.com/lure-making/spinner-blades-and-buzz-blades/

[LrgmouthShad]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

https://barlowstackle.com/lure-making/spinner-blades-and-buzz-blades/

I was kidding. Thanks though

[T-Billy]

3 hours ago, cgolf said:

This thread is evil, as I know have a roughly 75 buck order of just different blades from barlows ready to order sometime this month.

 

Don't forget split rings and swivels....... Have you looked at their skirt tabs lately? ?

[LrgmouthShad]

2 hours ago, T-Billy said:

 

Don't forget split rings and swivels....... Have you looked at their skirt tabs lately? ?

Lol… my last order of some spinnerbaits I got some of these too. And you know you gotta get some sampo’s ?