Why 20+pound line?

[PressuredFishing]

So I use 20+ pound line, but really just because I've heard it reccomended for those specialty techniques. But my legitimate question is, why have 20+ pound line when some of the heaviest duty low profile baitcast reels have a Max drag of 17-20 pounds. Anything more seems kind of pointless because a  bass reel cannot handle it. The one thing I see benefiting heavy line is abrasion resistance, am I missing something, why flip with 60 pound braid when my reel can only handle 18 pounds of drag? 

[QED]

You don’t set your drag to the line weight but rather a fraction of it.  So you can use 20 lb drag with much heavier line.

[PressuredFishing]

12 minutes ago, QED said:

You don’t set your drag to the line weight but rather a fraction of it.  So if you can use 20 lb drag with much heavier line.

Of corse of corse but if the drag gives out at 20, why not just use 25lb instead of 60. Both give out over what your reel can handle, I just don't see the point unless your pulling the line out with your hands 

[jbsoonerfan]

This is my theory. If my drag fails and I have enough(lb test) line to get the fish in, then I "might" be good. But if my drag is working properly and there is even a slight problem with my line, I "might" be screwed. 

 

Example - I have 20 lb fluoro tied on, catch a big one and the drag locks up or even starts slipping, I "might" land the fish. But if I have 12 lb mono tied on and my drag locks up, then I "might" break off. Also, if the drag starts slipping, I "might" not be able to horse the fish in.

 

That's the thing about fishing, there are a lot of "might" have been's.

 

EDIT*** Maybe I misunderstood your question. Are you assuming everyone just locks their drag down?

[PressuredFishing]

3 minutes ago, jbsoonerfan said:

This is my theory. If my drag fails and I have enough(lb test) line to get the fish in, then I "might" be good. But if my drag is working properly and there is even a slight problem with my line, I "might" be screwed. 

 

Example - I have 20 lb fluoro tied on, catch a big one and the drag locks up or even starts slipping, I "might" land the fish. But if I have 12 lb mono tied on and my drag locks up, then I "might" break off. Also, if the drag starts slipping, I "might" not be able to horse the fish in.

 

That's the thing about fishing, there are a lot of "might" have been's.

 

EDIT*** Maybe I misunderstood your question. Are you assuming everyone just locks their drag down?

Well personally I don't lock my drag down unless I'm pitching and flipping, I usually set my drag to where line can pull out about 80% of its breaking strength. I understand what you are saying though, because it's good to have a few safeguards in place in case some people are flipping and pitching with locked down drag and the drag locks up from a 17 to 23 for a second because it's not smooth.

[jbsoonerfan]

I would be willing to bet that 90% or more of fish that break off are due to one of two things, drag set too tight or compromised line. 

[PressuredFishing]

3 minutes ago, jbsoonerfan said:

I would be willing to bet that 90% or more of fish that break off are due to one of two things, drag set too tight or compromised line. 

Yeah, most of my fish are lost by rushed knots in a hurry. I have learned to fish with light line for large fish. I have played a 7lb trout on 2lb line and a 9lb trout on 2lb line. Both had ultralight wire hooks. Both fish where caught. Both fish didn't bend out hooks and where caught backreeling. Light wire hooks are disgustingly good at keeping high catch ratios if you play them right.

[islandbass]

I would imagine the same as you did, it’s likely for abrasion resistance. 
 

Braid as you know is thinner than mono and generally thinner line isn’t as abrasion resistant as a thicker line. This is just my take, but I believe that is why higher # braid is used. 20# braid is roughly has the diameter of 6# mono. Who in their right mind would flip into super heavy cover with line that thin. That’s either balls out brave or possibly just plain foolish. In addition ,20# braid is going to dig itself into the spool, and so will thinner braids, sometimes even 30# braid.  I think think these perhaps are two of the main reasons  why heavier braid is used. 
 

As for reels with insanely high drags as you described two things I can think of.

1) Perhaps people who target other bass fight like a blue gill relatively speaking need that higher drag.

2) A selling point or marketing hype. We know how easily bass anglers can get caught.  Oooh. 20# drag. I wants it. My precious… It’s me birthday.  Sméagol. 
 

Just my own thoughts. 

[Columbia Craw]

I fish 20 lb. test frequently.  It slows the rate of fall on bottom contact baits.  It limits a crankbait’s depth to some extent.  It’s more manageable when skipping and is less likely to cut into itself or wood.  

[Catt]

I might be a dumb Coonass but I'm fairly confident the drag is there to help you fight the fish. When a large fish surges the drag & rod's flex work in unison to absorb that shock.

 

I've caught 35 double digit bass on a Shimano Calcutta which only has 11# of drag.

[Captain Phil]

I have fished for fish where a good drag is necessary, mostly in salt water fishing.  When a ten pound bone fish runs off 100 yards with your jig in it's mouth, you better have your drag set right.  The first big bone fish I caught was on an Ambassador 6500 reel.  That fish ran so hard against the drag that it back lashed my line on the first run.  I have caught 100 pound plus sailfish on 8 pound mono, so I know how to use a drag correctly.  None of this is necessary when bass fishing unless you are fishing with 6 pound test in areas of cover.  Done that too.

 

A drag is not going to help you when you have to dig a big bass out of a mess of pads or a hay bale of hydrilla.  I was fishing for bass when reels had no drag.  I have locked mine down ever since.  I use 20 pound big game for most of my power fishing.  The last bass that broke me off was when I was a teenager.  Most break offs are due to angler error or poor knots.  Before braid and fluoro, we used heavy mono to reduce line stretch.  With modern lines, this is not necessary.  When I hook a big bass, I already know what it is going to do and I am ready for it. If it surges, I push free spool and use my thumb as a drag.  I have never had a bass surge more than 5-6 feet and I have caught a number of double digit bass.   My thumb is more reliable than a piece of plastic or cork.  If I'm using a spinning reel, I back reel.  A loose drag will cost you fish as you won't get a good hook set.   If you feel you need a drag, set it correctly and make sure it works.

[TnRiver46]

I fish 20 lb line in places where fish have broken my 12 and 15 lb line. Reason: don’t want to repeat. Example: in laydowns 

[Fastbee]

I don't correlate amount of drag available to line size at all.  Most of my fishing is up close and personal...flipping brush and laydowns or under docks.  In those instances the heavy line ensures I can get that fish pinned and out of the cover quickly.  If I'm fishing more open water I use lighter line since I'm not trying to drag a fish out of something that is sawing my line as I pull.

[A-Jay]

Why 20+pound line?

Here's at least one reason . . . 

Fish Hard

A-Jay

[jimmyjoe]

   1) At about 1/3 of their rated drag, most reels start to "chatter" and lose their smoothness. For holding a fish on a treble, that's dangerous. For a large single hook, not quite so much. Lots and lots of big fish are caught (and lost) on treble hooks. As @Captain Phil has said, you can put duct tape on your thumb and use that for drag. That's a pretty good drag. Some fishermen don't want to do that, though.

 

   2) Monofilament lines, fluorocarbon or nylon, are susceptible to abrasion. They also weaken from a backlash (especially fluoro).

 

   3) There are knots that guarantee 100% knot strength, but most fishermen don't use them, especially in a hurry. This is especially true of braid, which is reported to have roughly 45-50% intrinsic knot strength.

 

   4) revolving spool reels ("drum" reels) work on tangential feed. This means that as the spool rotates around to the point you want the line to come off, the line has to be ready to lift off the spool. If the centrifugal force is not great enough, the line buckles, and you have a backlash. If the centripetal force is not great enough, the line "fluffs" excessively, and you have a backlash. So you have to have the correct line characteristics  for the way you want to cast, on the reel that you have. The only characteristic you can vary easily is line diameter. You need to find the right diameter for your reel, your weight of lure, and your casting velocity with the line you've chosen.

   If that diameter corresponds to 20 lb. mono (or 10, or 14) then so be it. Same with braid; the correct line diameter might be 40 test, and it might be 80 test.

 

   5)  Revolving spool (or revolving drum) reels that have brakes need to follow a curve of resistance (roughly) that starts high at the beginning of the cast (for control) and then gradually feeds down during the rest of the cast. If it didn't gradually reduce the braking effect, your cast would be about 1/3 of its potential. Larger diameter lines feed down into the spool supply at a higher rate, sustaining a higher RPM, and therefore a higher sustained braking effect at the end of the cast. Just watch people using a baitcaster sometime; the two parts of the cast during which they backlash most often are the very beginning and the very end.

   So  if you find a line you like and it backlashes every time you try for distance, either reduce the amount of line on the spool or move to a higher diameter ..... and therefore test.

 

   So in essence, there are lots of reasons to use different lines .... even heavy ones.

 

   Good luck!  ?     jj

 

 

[Catt]

5 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Why 20+pound line?

Here's at least one reason . . . 

Fish Hard

A-Jay

 

11 lb 3 oz on 15# Big Game, drag set at 6-7#, in thick hydrilla.

 

 

[Catt]

Now during pre-spawn/spawn I will move up to 20# on my Texas  Rig, 65# braid on my Jig-n-Craw & tighten my drag a little.

 

Why?

 

Buck brush, we don't fish the edges, we fish in it. Set hook, turn her head, get her coming towards you, all in one motion!

[LrgmouthShad]

2 hours ago, Catt said:

 

11 lb 3 oz on 15# Big Game, drag set at 6-7#, in thick hydrilla.

 

 

Big game don't quit!

[Bankc]

In open water, I don't have a problem landing any bass (short of a large striper) on 12# line.  So I'll often throw 8-12# line.  However, when fishing around thick vegetation, wood, or anything else I might get hung up on, heavier line increases the odds of both landing the fish, and getting my lure back if it gets snagged.  

 

So it's not so much an issue of needing the extra strength to fight the fish.  20 lbs of force will probably break a rod anyway.  But it's more about having the added strength to fight other junk under the water.  And sometimes it's also about reducing stretch, as thicker line doesn't stretch as easily.  

[Skunkmaster-k]

Heavy cover is about the only time I use 20 , only exception is the mainline on my ball and chain. 

[PressuredFishing]

10 hours ago, islandbass said:

I would imagine the same as you did, it’s likely for abrasion resistance. 
 

Braid as you know is thinner than mono and generally thinner line isn’t as abrasion resistant as a thicker line. This is just my take, but I believe that is why higher # braid is used. 20# braid is roughly has the diameter of 6# mono. Who in their right mind would flip into super heavy cover with line that thin. That’s either balls out brave or possibly just plain foolish. In addition ,20# braid is going to dig itself into the spool, and so will thinner braids, sometimes even 30# braid.  I think think these perhaps are two of the main reasons  why heavier braid is used. 
 

As for reels with insanely high drags as you described two things I can think of.

1) Perhaps people who target other bass fight like a blue gill relatively speaking need that higher drag.

2) A selling point or marketing hype. We know how easily bass anglers can get caught.  Oooh. 20# drag. I wants it. My precious… It’s me birthday.  Sméagol. 
 

Just my own thoughts. 

That makes alot of sense for abrasion resistance. When fishing inshore at our bay we have riprap with alot of barnacles. Even though the calicos only get 4lbs big, I run 15lb abrasx because you loose alot of rigs not by snags but the barnacles cutting your line.

5 hours ago, Catt said:

I might be a dumb Coonass but I'm fairly confident the drag is there to help you fight the fish. When a large fish surges the drag & rod's flex work in unison to absorb that shock.

 

I've caught 35 double digit bass on a Shimano Calcutta which only has 11# of drag.

Yeah I agree 100% drag is a food way to prevent snapping your line as well. So when you guys fish the heavier line I'm getting that you use it for abrasion resistance, and if the fish gets stuck in thick cover and you can't pull it out with your reel because your reels drag Is slipping you can pull it out with your hands+the fish won't get deeper into the cover

10 hours ago, Columbia Craw said:

I fish 20 lb. test frequently.  It slows the rate of fall on bottom contact baits.  It limits a crankbait’s depth to some extent.  It’s more manageable when skipping and is less likely to cut into itself or wood.  

This actually makes a ton of sense with presentation. Here in socal we have grass flats 2-3 feet below the surface, and I met this guy that would run 20lb mono and he said it runs the baits perfectly above the grass without them getting into the weeds. 

[PressuredFishing]

5 hours ago, Captain Phil said:

I have fished for fish where a good drag is necessary, mostly in salt water fishing.  When a ten pound bone fish runs off 100 yards with your jig in it's mouth, you better have your drag set right.  The first big bone fish I caught was on an Ambassador 6500 reel.  That fish ran so hard against the drag that it back lashed my line on the first run.  I have caught 100 pound plus sailfish on 8 pound mono, so I know how to use a drag correctly.  None of this is necessary when bass fishing unless you are fishing with 6 pound test in areas of cover.  Done that too.

 

A drag is not going to help you when you have to dig a big bass out of a mess of pads or a hay bale of hydrilla.  I was fishing for bass when reels had no drag.  I have locked mine down ever since.  I use 20 pound big game for most of my power fishing.  The last bass that broke me off was when I was a teenager.  Most break offs are due to angler error or poor knots.  Before braid and fluoro, we used heavy mono to reduce line stretch.  With modern lines, this is not necessary.  When I hook a big bass, I already know what it is going to do and I am ready for it. If it surges, I push free spool and use my thumb as a drag.  I have never had a bass surge more than 5-6 feet and I have caught a number of double digit bass.   My thumb is more reliable than a piece of plastic or cork.  If I'm using a spinning reel, I back reel.  A loose drag will cost you fish as you won't get a good hook set.   If you feel you need a drag, set it correctly and make sure it works.

I'd say you are 100% right. Not much "fighting the fish" now days in bass fishing, perhaps because tournament guys want the fish in the boat as fast as possible. The only time I have fought fish is offshore in salt or using spybaits with 2lb line for bass or like I said above fishing 2lb line and catching a 9 and 7lb trout. Very fun, backreeling and light enough drag yet pressure is key I have found. 

4 hours ago, A-Jay said:

Why 20+pound line?

Here's at least one reason . . . 

Fish Hard

A-Jay

So Ajay, did your reel hold up in getting that fish out of cover? Or did you have to pull the line with your hands? Or was it just open water. Thanks for the reply and nice fish

4 hours ago, Catt said:

 

11 lb 3 oz on 15# Big Game, drag set at 6-7#, in thick hydrilla.

 

 

Nice fish must have been a nice catch!

2 hours ago, Catt said:

Now during pre-spawn/spawn I will move up to 20# on my Texas  Rig, 65# braid on my Jig-n-Craw & tighten my drag a little.

 

Why?

 

Buck brush, we don't fish the edges, we fish in it. Set hook, turn her head, get her coming towards you, all in one motion!

So I have cheaper reels so forgive me if I don't quite understand, but I fish that type of cover somewhat often and I have found when flipping with 60+ pound braid my reel can't pull the fish out of cover on max drag and it keeps slipping. I have to pull with my hands. Do your reels do the same thing? 

[A-Jay]

18 minutes ago, PressuredFishing said:

I 

So Ajay, did your reel hold up in getting that fish out of cover? Or did you have to pull the line with your hands? Or was it just open water. Thanks for the reply and nice fish.

 

 

I use metal reels Calcutta 300D's and Tranx 300's.

Both beasts and yes they hold up well.

Me, not so much.

She was a swimbait fish that hit in open water.

But until I actually fished in a place that had 'many' double digit fish,

I just didn't understand what that fight is like.

These mutants can pop lesser line with a simple head shake.

Now extracting one of these out of "Any Cover" 

is a completely different deal and demands plus size rigs. 

Heavy Gear is the Law for me. 

A-Jay

[Fastbee]

20 minutes ago, PressuredFishing said:

So I have cheaper reels so forgive me if I don't quite understand, but I fish that type of cover somewhat often and I have found when flipping with 60+ pound braid my reel can't pull the fish out of cover on max drag and it keeps slipping. I have to pull with my hands. Do your reels do the same thing? 

I don't think I've ever had that happen when the drag was truly locked down.  I've fished with some pretty cheap reels over the years and when the drag is as tight as I can get it I've never had to hand line a fish.  I'm not saying the drag won't slip at all, because it has a little, but not to the point you seem to be describing.  I have needed to use my hands or the trolling motor to get a lure unstuck (breaking line, pulling part of the brushpile out, etc...) but never to land a fish.

[PressuredFishing]

17 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

I use metal reels Calcutta 300D's and Tranx 300's.

Both beasts and yes they hold up well.

Me, not so much.

She was a swimbait fish that hit in open water.

But until I actually fished in a place that had 'many' double digit fish,

I just didn't understand what that fight is like.

These mutants can pop lesser line with a simple head shake.

Now extracting one of these out of "Any Cover" 

is a completely different deal and demands plus size rigs. 

Heavy Gear is the Law for me. 

A-Jay

Thanks that makes alot of sense, yeah my reels in heavy cover give so much with 60+ pound braid and 5lb bass I usually have to get close to the cover with the boat to unhook them because I cannot pull them out even with my hands in 65+ pound braid.