Tip Flex

[Mobasser]

I'm sure many will disagree with me here, but you'll land more fish when fishing moving baits by using a rod with some tip flex.                  Tip flex is a broad term, and can mean different things to different anglers. My own favourite rods for moving baits, have a slight tip flex in the top one third of the blank, and taper to a stout butt section near the handle.                                                         You can feel these rods load up on the cast, and they usually get good casting distance.                                                       With modern graphite rods, you may not notice much flex by holding the rod and shaking it around in a sporting goods store. Where you'll notice it is when you hook a fish on a spinnerbait, lipless bait, or a moving topwater lure.                                                            Rods with this action kind of move with the movements of a hooked bass, and when using lighter line, add a cushion to help protect the light line.                                  There's a reason that many crankbait fisherman have gone to fiberglass rods for crankbait fishing. I believe Rick Clun helped to start this trend years ago, winning a Classic with crankbaits and a fiberglass rod.              If your a novice, and just starting out in bass fishing, use your xf, stiff rods for soft plastics or jig fishing. But, for your moving baits, you'll land more fish on a rod with a tip flex. Your casting accuracy may improve also.                                                                Just an observation from my own fishing, and losing fish on moving baits with an xf action rod through the years.                               Anyone agree or disagree on this? What's your opinion here?

[PaulVE64]

TOTAL AGREEMENT WITH OP

[TOXIC]

Honestly, I don’t think you will find anyone here will disagree with your points.  It’s pretty standard knowledge.  Even more important now that braid is so widely used and its no stretch characteristics.

[Cgolf]

Interestingly on the spinnerbait rod thread I started a lot of people were suggesting fast or extra fast rods. I believe I am settling on a Dobyns fast which is similar to my other moderate rods. Maybe spinnerbaits fall somewhere in between. But as someone that throws braid as mainline on all my baitcasters I can’t imagine not having a rod with a softer tip. 

[walleyecrazy]

I agree, and thats why I love the Dobyn's Sierra 734c so much for a lot of my moving baits. It has about the perfect action for them in my opinion.

[DitchPanda]

Alot of guys claim you need a fast action or extra fast to drive a big single hook home claiming they recommend a jig rod since its basically a jig hook your setting. Well the past few years I've used a Falcon Bucoo trap caster...a rod designed for lipless cranks...to throw my buzz baits and often times spinnerbaits or bladed jigs and have had great success with it. I think a key difference that guys aren't seeing is when jig and Trig fishing you usually have something impeding your hook set to some degree be it a brush guard or the plastic on the Trig. Moving baits don't really have that issue. I suspect alot of guys opinions would change on this if they checked hook points and learned how to use a file.

[ironbjorn]

I have absolutely no use for an XF action, and minimal use for a TRUE F action (love the Dobyns tip, landing somewhere perfectly between MF and F).

[WRB]

What is being discussed is action vs power.

A rod the bend in a full arch from tip the butt has a parabolic action. As the bend under a light load moves toward the rod tip the action changes from moderate or bending in the upper 1/2 rod length before the lower half bends. Next is fast where the upper 1/4 bends before the lower 3/4. Xtra fast is the upper 1/8 bends before the lower 7/8. 

Ifyou want to cast a lure further the closer to parabolic the is the more of the rod blank is involved launching the lure. Fly rods are parabolic action to launch the entire length of line because flies don’t weight enough to load the rod blank.  

Bass lures have weight and air resistance. Lure with more air resistance like diving treble hook lures it’s easier to cast with a moderate action rod....regardless of the material it’s made of.

Way back in the early 70’s I discovered a unique action rod used to cast live bait using a float (bobber) called a popping rod made by Fenwick. This rod was designed for inshore bone fish to make long cast with live shrimp. Lots of moderate action close to being parabolic with good power.....the perfect crank bait rod. I bought the 5 power 7’ blank and added a reel trigger seat and more guides for bass.

lures.  This rod was my crank bait rod and yes it was Fenwick tubular glass rod. 

When needing a stronger blank in the 80’s I opted for Lamiglas 705 composite rod blank to use with DD22’s and Poe’s 300 series lures that over loaded the popping rod retrieving those lure. 

when my popping rod was destroyed in shipping to Canada I discovered Loomis PR854C popping rod to replace it. This rod became my favorite 3/8-1/2 medium diving crank bait and lipless rod, my all time structure spoon rod to 1 oz spoons.

Why the action vs power was perfect.

Tom 

 

 

[Spankey]

A moderate action is pretty tuff to just go out and find. I’m not saying impossible. But I’m not buying anything unseen or untouched. Do your homework and feel a few to you get something that fits your needs. Cranking I need medium and med. heavy to throw what I normally throw. 
 

I’m pretty much a St. Croix guy and had fished the Premiere Series CB Rods for a long time. Is a great rod. Over the last few years I’ve taken a major liking to Abu Garcia cranking rods. My opinion that are a bit more moderate in the tip. I have not lost many fish with either. Loosing fish will happen. 
 

But action vary a lot between mfgs. Actions are gonna feel different between individuals. Good luck. 

[J Francho]

I think the notion of faster taper and losing fish on treble hooked baits is phooey.  If it was true, I'd NEVER catch a fish on a jerkbait,  squarebill, lipless, or topwater, since I use an X-fast taper for them.  The only things I use a moderate taper for are diving crankbaits and super heavy cover rods.  For the former, it's all about deflection and how the rod doesn't snap the bait back in line, rather allowing it do its thing briefly before returning to it's normal track.  For the latter, it's all about not having any weak point and applying every bit of power during a "lift and separate" hookset.  Now, talk to me about fish much larger, stronger, and faster than bass while using light line, and I will definitively tell you that the slower action protecting hooks (even single hooks) is absolutely true.  But I'm speaking of steelhead, brown trout, and various salmon, all well over 10 lbs. in small creeks using 4-8 lb. leaders.  For bass fishing, the scales are tipped well in favor of the angler.

[GReb]

I like a moderate-fast action rod as long as it’s not super tippy. They cast well and just feel better to me when setting the hook. An XF action is really nice when using jerkbaits or walking topwater baits though.
 

As long as the power is right, hooks are sharp, drag is properly set, and line choice is correct I don’t think the end result is much different. Just use what you like. My .02

[WRB]

The advantage for me is a moderate rod action provides ease of casting long distances reduces wear and tear on me.

Moderate action rods help with shock absorbing stress to help keep hooks in soft tissue tearing out. Setting the reel drag properly also achieves the thing using both moderate and faster action rods.

Trout anglers learn quickly how important setting reel drags because they use lighter line and smaller hooks in general compared to bass anglers.

Too whimpy of a rod tip can create hook setting issues with larger diameter hooks that need more force to penetrate the basses mouth tissues. This is where a combination of power and action come into play.

Tom

[PaulVE64]

Good thread.

 

[T-Billy]

Not just moving baits. My bottom contact rods gotta have some tip too. They just fish better. I have a couple XF rods, but I only use them to collect dust and spider webs.

[Bankbeater]

I learned this lesson the hard way when I had a rat-l-trap pull out of fish when that fish dove down under the boat.  

[LrgmouthShad]

I think multiple action rods will work for the same style bait depending on what you are trying to do. There's an overall system between your rod, line, hooks, and drag setting. I agree that softer tip rods seem underrated to me. I refrain from saying more

[Boomstick]

I generally agree. I like a rod that is somewhere in between fast and moderate fast for moving baits with a single hook. Dobyns fast action is a great example most people are familiar with. I do have an extra fast with a soft tip, and that works but it's not my preference. For moving baits with treble hooks, I would opt for something moderate to moderate fast, with a few exceptions, one being around grass or wood when I want the faster tip for a quicker rebound, so often when shallow cranking. The other is for poppers and jerkbaits, where I prefer to use a M/XF rod that runs lighter in power because when I get a bite on a twitch, it's much easier to detect. But this rod basically bends all the way through, so there is still some bend to it.

 

I

[Team9nine]

7 hours ago, J Francho said:

I think the notion of faster taper and losing fish on treble hooked baits is phooey.  If it was true, I'd NEVER catch a fish on a jerkbait,  squarebill, lipless, or topwater, since I use an X-fast taper for them.  The only things I use a moderate taper for are diving crankbaits and super heavy cover rods.  For the former, it's all about deflection and how the rod doesn't snap the bait back in line, rather allowing it do its thing briefly before returning to it's normal track.  For the latter, it's all about not having any weak point and applying every bit of power during a "lift and separate" hookset.  Now, talk to me about fish much larger, stronger, and faster than bass while using light line, and I will definitively tell you that the slower action protecting hooks (even single hooks) is absolutely true.  But I'm speaking of steelhead, brown trout, and various salmon, all well over 10 lbs. in small creeks using 4-8 lb. leaders.  For bass fishing, the scales are tipped well in favor of the angler.

 

@J Francho provides the counter-point argument against "tip flex." It's not the one the angling media pushes much, witness David Fritts and Rick Clunn as mentioned, but there are proponents of the stiffer rod theory. David Dudley is one of those, as is David Wright, another Carolina cranker on par with Fritts. You can Google 'David Dudley Heavy rod' to find a good article explaining his thoughts (link not allowed). I personally can't stand the Fritts/Clunn degree of "tip flex" when cranking, and always go at least a little more toward the stiffer side with this technique. 

[Bankc]

A rod is just a tool, and only part of the equation.  How you use it can have a huge effect on the outcome.  The right rod is the one that does what YOU want.

 

For instance, with a stiffer rod, having thinner and stretchier line, along with a looser drag can help to keep treble hooks pinned and not tear them out.  Also, you can absorb some of the shock with your body (arms and wrist), instead of relying solely on the rod to absorb all of the fight.  With a softer rod, you can still drive in a large, single hook, by using a harder, slack line style hookset.  Allow that rod to build up some speed before it grabs the hook.  

 

Point being, it's not so much a matter of matching the rod to the bait, as it is to matching the rod to your technique with the bait.  You just have to know the rod's characteristics and know how to use them to your advantage and minimize any disadvantages.  

[LrgmouthShad]

On 9/28/2021 at 2:02 PM, J Francho said:

I'd NEVER catch a fish on a jerkbait,  squarebill, lipless, or topwater, since I use an X-fast taper for them

I’m deferring to your wisdom here… wondering why you use the x fast rod for these techniques. Just curious to hear your logic

[J Francho]

Better control of the bait and faster recovery from the twitch.  Bites can be very light, so crisp detection and fast hooksets are a must.  All these things an XF does better than a slower rod.  For throwing lipless and squarebills, I want to react quickly to contact with wood or grass, and a slower rod doesn't work well when you need to kill a bait or snap it off the grass.

[padon]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

Better control of the bait and faster recovery from the twitch.  Bites can be very light, so crisp detection and fast hooksets are a must.  All these things an XF does better than a slower rod.  For throwing lipless and squarebills, I want to react quickly to contact with wood or grass, and a slower rod doesn't work well when you need to kill a bait or snap it off the grass.

i like a softer more moderate rod for deep cranks but when fishing lipless or sqaurebills around grass you need the slightly stiffer rod to yank the bait when it gets lightly hung in the grass. i dont mean buried i mean when just a sprig of grass grabs a hook. you need the sensitivity to feel that and the tip strength to snap the bait out of it.Since J Francho is from new york  he probably fishes around alot of grass which is why he prefers that type of action as do i