Super User WRB Posted January 29 Super User Posted January 29 Can you explain when Average beats Elites all the time? The tournaments a Average Joe ( Amateur ) get a chance to fish with an Elite is Pro/Am open events as a back seater. Tom
Super User Tennessee Boy Posted January 29 Super User Posted January 29 24 minutes ago, WRB said: Can you explain when Average beats Elites all the time? Many that fish the BPT fish the Toyota Series and sometimes the Phoenix league and they don't dominate every tournament. I've heard that Jacob Wheeler sometimes fishing a weekly wildcat tournament on Chickamauga. I don't know what his record is in those tournaments. When I say average Joe I'm not talking about someone that fishes twice a year. I'm talking about serious anglers that fish at lower levels. 25 minutes ago, gim said: Seth Feider is frequently on a segment of local sports talk radio I listen to during the outdoors portion and he has openly stated he would get his but whipped in some of the weekly derbies on Lake Minnetonka, his home lake he used to fish years ago. He just doesn’t fish there frequently enough anymore to be competitive. Ike once said the best angler he knew was in a club that he used to fish in. Again, I'm not saying the Elite guys are not good. They are amazing. I'm saying that an Elite level angler fishing in a local club tournament might be favored to win but would not be like Derick Henry playing in a junior college football game. 3
Super User WRB Posted January 29 Super User Posted January 29 You are talking about “ Pro’s” that have their boats fishing local events that don’t travel to national events. These anglers aren’t average Joe’s and must fish as pro’s in Open events. Fine line between Elite pro from other local pro bass anglers. Tom 1
MyKeyBe Posted January 29 Posted January 29 Could an average joe compete and dominate on their home lake? Absolutely. Could they do it in their home area? Sure. Nationwide? Maybe. Nationwide for years on end? Not likely. Nationwide for years on end at the top levels? Probably not. Could it be done? Sure but it is very unlikely. I think most everyone is overlooking the pure grit and determination it takes to fish at the pro level. Money aside, it's an extremely taxing and demanding lifestyle to live. These guys eat, sleep, and live to fish. Everyday. They want it. The average joe doesn't have "that" in them. I believe an above average joe could certainly tour across the country and catch fish at a pro level. I just think most people don't have what it takes in them to live that lifestyle nonstop for a year yet alone multiple years in a row. 2
Goby Posted January 29 Posted January 29 I have always heard that Randy VanDam is even better than his Brother Kevin VanDam, just never was as passionate about tournaments. Absolutely no idea if it's true what so ever, but have heard it more than once. Not sure he is an average Joe, but doesn't have the accolades as Kevin does. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, there is still some degree of "luck" to fishing, any given day, who knows, today you could be Ricky Bobby, tomorrow, not so much... Just need that luck to be on the right day... Where the average Joe would likely fall short is when he went to another region, with a totally different type of fishery than he is used to and tried to do an entire series... That's where the experience truly comes into play... Not a tournament angler, just a passionate fisherman, trying to go "pro" sounds like a great way to make fishing not as fun anymore, but definitely respect those that can do it.
hunterPRO1 Posted January 29 Posted January 29 How many could come off the bench and finish in the top half of the field in AOY? Not many, too many things to learn for someone that has only fished local. But the argument that average anglers could only ever compete on their home waters is bull hocks. Of course that's the only place they can compete; it's the only place they know. Not necessarily for any innate inability. It would take years to learn how to fish in all the different regions, and that is a lot of money invested in extracurricular practice. All while the economy is gone to trash and payouts are worse than they were in the early 2000s, in addition to sponsorship deals being harder to come by and less lucrative. Why would any average joe with a stable life want to go pro? They probably won't make it and end up majorly set back financially, or if they do make it the rewards really aren't all that great compared to other sports. These guys aren't getting rich, they are either kids born into money, guys that made a bunch of money so they could afford to fish, or they are barely scraping by because they need to go fish like they need to drink water. Honestly, if someone wanted to fish for a living, they are better of trying YouTube. The odds of making it are no better, heck they may be even worse. But the investment lost if you don't make it is far less than in pro fishing. 1 1
MediumMouthBass Posted January 29 Posted January 29 @hunterPRO1 This is the most common sense thing ive read this year. Spend a fortune (basically committing financial suicide), alienate your family, eat junk food nonstop, staying in cheap hotels, always on the move, just to break even or make pennies, its just not worth it. No matter how good you are. Its a much different time than it was a decade or 2 ago..... Even the guys who were born rich, how much do you think they have left? Theres just no money in it, unless you are among the best of the best. But even then, its not very much for a professional level sport/hobby. 3 hours ago, hunterPRO1 said: Honestly, if someone wanted to fish for a living, they are better of trying YouTube. The odds of making it are no better, heck they may be even worse. But the investment lost if you don't make it is far less than in pro fishing. Most of these guys are either catching maybe 1 dink, or a few 1-3lbers on average. Spending their free time fishing, then hiring a buddy to edit the videos. All while doing what they love, without any of the negatives or cons. Getting rods, reels, lures, thrown at them by the sponsors and making money from Youtube, donations from fans, the sponsors themselves.... And the cost of entry is marginal, a phone (which almost everyone has), or a gopro/camera, a laptop. And about $300 worth of gear to start. All thats needed is a personality people can relate to, or like. The issue though is that this is now severely over saturated from stuff like TikTok making everyone think they will be the next big thing. 1
KSanford33 Posted January 29 Posted January 29 16 minutes ago, MediumMouthBass said: Spend a fortune (basically committing financial suicide), alienate your family, eat junk food nonstop, staying in cheap hotels, always on the move, just to break even or make pennies, its just not worth it. I feel I’m in a position to weigh in on this. I was fortunate enough to play hockey for a living for about 5 years in the early 2000’s. During that same time, a very good friend of mine was trying his hand at professional golf. @MediumMouthBass is 100% correct. My buddy and I finished up around the same time. We both had wonderful memories of the past 5 years, but the biggest difference (outside of our injuries), was that I was broke while he was roughly $80,000 in debt. I feel the golf analogy is much more accurate because my travel costs were covered by the team and I *almost* always got paid. But golf is like fishing: you’re basically a self-employed gambler. 1
Glaucus Posted January 29 Posted January 29 Our sport isn't like most sports where the best athletes make it to the big league based on pure skill. People who make it big in bass fishing are good at marketing and, nowadays, started with a lot of money and time to lose. Several pros have covered this topic in recent years. It's a money game. I'm very sure that there are many anglers not even fishing in tournaments on any level who would beat the socks off the pros on the water. Similar to my belief that almost every record has been broken, but hardly anyone is prepared for that event on the water, and many don't care to hurt the fish or the fishery by seeking to verify. Many probably don't even know they have a record. Meanwhile, in almost all other sports, talent and merit alone gets people to the top. Despite the random film here and there, there aren't really any phenoms out there not known to NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, MLS/EPL etc etc teams. In sports like pool, nobody needs a lot of money. I used to play league. Perform well at the local level which costs nothing, advance to state which costs nothing, advance to nationals which isn't that expensive. I was never great but my dad was. He made it to Vegas on several occasions and it didn't cost much. Nobody gets into the big times in bass without tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars. The fees, traveling, and equipment needed is insane.
rgasr63 Posted January 29 Posted January 29 21 hours ago, Pat Brown said: I'm a rental jon boat bass fisherman who goes on weekends with my wife and son and I have nearly beaten a lake record that was allegedly set in 1967 - no verifiable pictures of fish on scale that I'm aware of for that 12.2 lber - my 11.5 lber - I got pictures and videos and everything. I caught submissions 4 times last year for the tri city big bass bash - I won finally in December with this fish. Never underestimate the average Joe. Great catch!!
Super User Tennessee Boy Posted January 29 Super User Posted January 29 9 hours ago, WRB said: Fine line between Elite pro from other local pro bass anglers. That’s exactly what I was saying in my post. You don’t see the separation of skill level at the different levels of fishing that you see in other sports. There was a guy in my club in the 90s that was very good. He won AOY like 5 years in a row. He fished a handful of BASS Opens and did well. He finished in the top 10 in his he first open. He finished in the top 20 in another. He clearly demonstrated that he was the best angler in our club and that he could compete with the best professionals in the world. He also lost more tournaments at the club level than he won and I beat him countless times. The guy had the opportunity to go pro full time. He had a great personality and made friends quickly in the BASS tournaments he fished. He was offered a boat deal and was encouraged to go full time. He didn’t go pro because he had a good job and family and could do the math to see it didn’t make financial sense. I have no doubt there have been countless others like him in the fishing world. 1
Super User Catt Posted January 29 Super User Posted January 29 On 9/18/2021 at 11:58 AM, ironbjorn said: To clarify my choice of words in the title meant Average Joe = not a pro being paid to fish Dominate = someone who could be a star in professional bass fishing if they had the money and the will to do so Y'all need to re-read 😉 Where y'all think Pros come from? 3
Global Moderator TnRiver46 Posted January 29 Global Moderator Posted January 29 14 minutes ago, Catt said: Y'all need to re-read 😉 Where y'all think Pros come from? Alabama, TN, Arkansas , Texas, Minnesota, and Japan 😆 3 2
Super User AlabamaSpothunter Posted January 29 Super User Posted January 29 It's not even a close race in terms of which state produces the most pro anglers 3 1
Global Moderator TnRiver46 Posted January 29 Global Moderator Posted January 29 Ha! I wasn’t that far off just spitballing 1 1
Super User Team9nine Posted January 29 Super User Posted January 29 1 hour ago, AlabamaSpothunter said: It's not even a close race in terms of which state produces the most pro anglers Guess my only qualm might be semantics - not “produces,” but which state do most professional anglers ‘move to’. AL has lots of transports from other areas of the country because of their centralized location relative to most tour stop locations, and great year round fisheries. I’ll have to see if I can find some of the old stats from the tour before ‘moving to fish professionally’ became a thing. I was thinking that TX, OK, MO, AR, FL, AL, and TN were always strong - probably GA and NC, too. 4
Pat Brown Posted January 29 Posted January 29 If you combine North and South Carolina which people from North and South Carolina would never allow, it would be a strong contender for the second biggest crop of anglers. 1
Super User AlabamaSpothunter Posted January 29 Super User Posted January 29 Valid points @Team9nine, and one that was the main counter point in a FB thread about it. While there are no doubts folks specifically move into Alabama to professionally fish, or go to college like MN native Easton Fothergill, it's still hard to understand why the anglers aren't moving to Texas, FL, or TN who have every bit as good of local trails and fisheries as Alabama. The amount of non Alabamians that have moved to Guntersville alone to pursue professional fishing is significant. It would be great if pro fishing could figure out a way to incorporate western states more into the mix. It's a sport dominated by the eastern half of the country, and even moreso the southeastern portion of the country. It's impressive how many top level pros come from northern states that are iced over half the year as well. 1
Super User Tennessee Boy Posted January 29 Super User Posted January 29 Take a look at how many pros live within 50 miles of the Tennessee River.
Super User Team9nine Posted January 29 Super User Posted January 29 11 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said: Valid points @Team9nine, and one that was the main counter point in a FB thread about it. While there are no doubts folks specifically move into Alabama to professionally fish, or go to college like MN native Easton Fothergill, it's still hard to understand why the anglers aren't moving to Texas, FL, or TN who have every bit as good of local trails and fisheries as Alabama. The amount of non Alabamians that have moved to Guntersville alone to pursue professional fishing is significant. It would be great if pro fishing could figure out a way to incorporate western states more into the mix. It's a sport dominated by the eastern half of the country, and even moreso the southeastern portion of the country. It's impressive how many top level pros come from northern states that are iced over half the year as well. Just browsed through the 1979 Top 50 AOY Bassmaster list as well as the Top 25 All-time money winners to that point. TX, AR and MO anglers took nearly 50% (22 of 50) of the spots. GA, KY, TN and OK took another 24%. AL had just 2 anglers in the Top 50. NC was top state in All-time winnings. East TN has had a lot of pro anglers move there, especially around the Chick. It’s probably #2 behind AL. The other states, not sure why. TX and FL have routinely been top destination states for people like retirees and remote workers, but neither seems to draw the bass anglers in much. I think they’re still too far isolated (on the perimeter) when looking at overall tour scheduling, especially now that the ‘northern swing’ seems to be a permanent thing. The west will never see the major tours roll that way again to any degree, IMO. I’m also thinking a lot of the big Ozark impoundments that used to play heavily on tour have also fallen out of favor to some degree. Just guessing, though… 2
Super User Catt Posted January 29 Super User Posted January 29 3 hours ago, TnRiver46 said: Alabama, TN, Arkansas , Texas, Minnesota, and Japan 😆 Wasn't what I had in mind but 👌 Pros come from the amateur levels, if you can't compete on the amateur level don’t even think about Pro level. Lot of talk about sponsorships, I can tell ya this much, it doesn't matter how slick a talker you are, ya gotta be able to catch em first. Straight up talent wise, there's quite a few that can compete but simply choose not to for whatever reason. There are members here who are or have been guides, & I have friends who guide. In my personal opinion these anglers are better than Pros, they have to be on em everyday. 2 1
Super User WRB Posted January 29 Super User Posted January 29 If you live in California as I do and want to compete in B.A.S.S. Tour events you must move and relocate in the heartland where those events are held. Several west coast Elite pros have moved to Texas, Alabama etc. When I was considering bass fishing professionally moving to the heartland, leaving my aerospace career was out of the question. Tom PS, B.A.S.S. doesn’t schedule events in California because the communities don’t support them. 2
Global Moderator TnRiver46 Posted January 29 Global Moderator Posted January 29 But NASA is in Huntsville near the TN river, Tom could have been the first bassmaster classic rocket scientist!!! 😂 1
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