Cdn Angler Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 I don't think anybody is going to dominate. A lot of ppl, if they didn't have normal life pressures and unlimited budget, would be competitive. 3
Stratocat_Joe Posted September 22, 2021 Posted September 22, 2021 Does anyone watch Brent Chapman's "Pro vs. Joe"? I would consider Chapman to be a middle-tier pro...but the "Joe's" have a hard enough time competing with him in a 1-on-1 format. I think a full field tournament would be significantly tougher! 2
Super User Swamp Girl Posted January 28 Super User Posted January 28 I might have a chance if the tournament were a canoe fishing tournament. Those poor pros would be zig-zagging across the water and tipping too. Seriously, I watched a video where a pro was fun fishing a tight river with laydowns on both shorelines and he had mad casting skills. Of course, he might have edited the video to show only his best casts, but some of those casts were beyond me. 2
Pat Brown Posted January 28 Posted January 28 I'm a rental jon boat bass fisherman who goes on weekends with my wife and son and I have nearly beaten a lake record that was allegedly set in 1967 - no verifiable pictures of fish on scale that I'm aware of for that 12.2 lber - my 11.5 lber - I got pictures and videos and everything. I caught submissions 4 times last year for the tri city big bass bash - I won finally in December with this fish. Never underestimate the average Joe. 6
Super User gim Posted January 28 Super User Posted January 28 Completely different ball game in competition when comparing it to recreational fishing. Plus you don't get to pick the body of water you want to fish, it's picked for you in advance. There's no freaking way I could do it. 8 hours is long time on the water, plus days of pre fishing ahead of time. I'd be wiped of energy. I'm not a jack of all trades when it comes to presentations either. I focus on my strengths. That being said, I do a couple of friendly derbies with family/friends/co-workers every year and I did well last season, winning both. They are 4 hours events and the losers have to buy beer/lunch afterwards. That's the extent of my tournament fishing. 5
Super User Swamp Girl Posted January 28 Super User Posted January 28 28 minutes ago, Pat Brown said: a rental jon boat bass fisherman Not how I'd describe you, Pat. I only need two words to describe you: bass whisperer. 1
Pumpkin Lizard Posted January 28 Posted January 28 On 9/16/2021 at 4:16 PM, ironbjorn said: I'm not literally asking for an estimated number, but rather seeking a discussion about guys out there that have all the talent in the world and then some, who could destroy pro tournaments. Do you know any? Heard of any? Are you one? Disclaimer: the only thing I could do in the pros is offer advice on Average Joes? None. If they had the ability to do it they wouldn’t be average. There are probably lots of guys in the pro/semi pro ranks that could do it but have funding or time challenges. 4
Super User AlabamaSpothunter Posted January 28 Super User Posted January 28 0% The ability of top level pros is downright magical. 4 1
Super User Swamp Girl Posted January 28 Super User Posted January 28 23 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said: 0% The ability of top level pros is downright magical. Alex, you know that YouTube video that I referenced above? Not only was that pro casting under overhangs, but he was catching big bass under those overhangs...in current! I wouldn't even attempt the casts he landed. I'd hook the tree and then be struggling to bring my boat back to free the lure. 2
Super User AlabamaSpothunter Posted January 28 Super User Posted January 28 13 minutes ago, Swamp Girl said: Alex, you know that YouTube video that I referenced above? Not only was that pro casting under overhangs, but he was catching big bass under those overhangs...in current! I wouldn't even attempt the casts he landed. I'd hook the tree and then be struggling to being the boat back to free my lure. I struggle to comprehend the skill level gap between myself and the average Elite Series pro. It's like we're doing two different things lol. Your right about casting, one of the easiest ways to see the massive difference b/t folks like me and the pros is casting. It's not edited at all, you can watch the BASS Live during the events and see the guys go down a line of docks and make perfect skips under every part of the dock they want to hit. To me the ability to find, pattern, and catch winning bags on lakes across the entire country is what really defines the top level anglers. Imagine being able to win on the SLR with 100lbs of SMs, and then winning on Lake Fork with 100lbs of LMs. That's insane. 4
Super User gim Posted January 28 Super User Posted January 28 1 minute ago, AlabamaSpothunter said: across the entire country I'd get pretty sick of hauling around a heavy fiberglass boat too. Even 2 hours one way with my lighter tin rig is a long ways for this guy. 3
Super User Swamp Girl Posted January 28 Super User Posted January 28 27 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said: I struggle to comprehend the skill level gap between myself and the average Elite Series pro. No doubt. They do everything way better than me except, maybe, being sneaky. A 20' boat with a 250 HP engine and a trolling motor chopping the water and electronics sending sound in all directions isn't as quiet as my canoe. Plus, they couldn't reach some of the places where I fish...and catch fish...and their electronics wouldn't work there anyway. If I ever took a pro fishing and he asked for my local gal advice, I'd say, "Shhh." 27 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said: To me the ability to find, pattern, and catch winning bags on lakes across the entire country is what really defines the top level anglers. Imagine being able to win on the SLR with 100lbs of SMs, and then winning on Lake Fork with 100lbs of LMs. That's insane. That is stunning range. And here I'm proud of my rare 20 lb. largie and smallie bags. Heh. 1
Global Moderator TnRiver46 Posted January 28 Global Moderator Posted January 28 27 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said: I struggle to comprehend the skill level gap between myself and the average Elite Series pro. It's like we're doing two different things lol. Your right about casting, one of the easiest ways to see the massive difference b/t folks like me and the pros is casting. It's not edited at all, you can watch the BASS Live during the events and see the guys go down a line of docks and make perfect skips under every part of the dock they want to hit. To me the ability to find, pattern, and catch winning bags on lakes across the entire country is what really defines the top level anglers. Imagine being able to win on the SLR with 100lbs of SMs, and then winning on Lake Fork with 100lbs of LMs. That's insane. You say that’s insane, I say that’s Patrick walters 3
Pat Brown Posted January 28 Posted January 28 1 hour ago, AlabamaSpothunter said: 0% The ability of top level pros is downright magical. I think if I stuck you in a 200k boat with top of the line everything and said go fishing all you want - you'd be the next KVD 😂😂😂 I think older pro fishing was a different ball game and with limitations on technology etc - a lot of those guys could wax us. I think nowadays - it's more or less an arms race and having free time. If only pro fishing was just being good at fishing! Never has been that way and it never will be. It's a lot more than that. 1 1
Rockhopper Posted January 28 Posted January 28 I think it is very naive to say that 0% of recreational anglers could compete on a pro level, and even win. Though the percentage is probably very very small across the US, you can't tell me there are not several expert level recreational anglers in our country that genuinely have zero interest in chasing a pro level tournament series, or even competing at all. Of the what...350 million?...people that live in the US alone, you really think that only 104 of them are good enough to fish the elites? That is like saying between the estimated 100 billion to 400 billion planets in our galaxy, earth is the only one that sustains life. There are more out there. 3 1
Pat Brown Posted January 28 Posted January 28 20 minutes ago, Rockhopper said: I think it is very naive to say that 0% of recreational anglers could compete on a pro level, and even win. Though the percentage is probably very very small across the US, you can't tell me there are not several expert level recreational anglers in our country that genuinely have zero interest in chasing a pro level tournament series, or even competing at all. Of the what...350 million?...people that live in the US alone, you really think that only 104 of them are good enough to fish the elites? That is like saying between the estimated 100 billion to 400 billion planets in our galaxy, earth is the only one that sustains life. There are more out there. And let's be doubly realistic: the best painter is someone we will never know their name. The best musicians same same. Etc etc. The way we discover people isn't based on their merit or skill or ability to succeed - it's really complicated what it takes for someone to be a professional at anything - the best are often not professionals at all and professionals are OFTEN not the best. I think starting an LLC and filing taxes and fishing in tournaments and building relationships with sponsors and selling tackle on social media and building a following independent of your tournament success is the bare minimum necessary to be a professional fisherman in 2025. And all of that has absolutely nothing to do with being good at catching a largemouth bass (excepting maybe building trust on social media providing examples of sponsor products working etc) 2
SkippinJimmy Posted January 28 Posted January 28 I don’t think you have to guess. The recent success of the rookie classes suggests there are likely anglers not on tour who could be competitive if/when given the chance. IMO, advances in technology have been a great equalizer. 4
Super User AlabamaSpothunter Posted January 28 Super User Posted January 28 37 minutes ago, Rockhopper said: I think it is very naive to say that 0% of recreational anglers could compete on a pro level, and even win. Though the percentage is probably very very small across the US, you can't tell me there are not several expert level recreational anglers in our country that genuinely have zero interest in chasing a pro level tournament series, or even competing at all. Of the what...350 million?...people that live in the US alone, you really think that only 104 of them are good enough to fish the elites? That is like saying between the estimated 100 billion to 400 billion planets in our galaxy, earth is the only one that sustains life. There are more out there. To be fair I'm talking about the top level pros.......like the top 50 guys in the world. There are a ton of guys in the pipeline of the BASS Opens, and MLF Invitationals and Toyotas that are close to being there. I don't consider those anglers average joes. I also don't consider anybody on a forum dedicated to catching Bass to be average joes for the most part either. Nobody who has posted in this thread is an average joe. 1 hour ago, TnRiver46 said: You say that’s insane, I say that’s Patrick walters Haha, that's exactly who I was using as the example. I could fish a hundred more lifetimes and never be on Walter's level. Whatever the thing that Wheeler, Walters, Fujita, Mckinney, etc. have is something I don't personally think can be taught. They have next level instincts if I had to guess. 3
MediumMouthBass Posted January 28 Posted January 28 Ill be the odd one out. Years ago if you took away the fancy boats, 20-50 combos, 30 tackle trays, dozens of storage bags containing plastics, 0 electronics (except the trolling motor). And gave everyone the same equipment so it was 100% fair. You would have to guess the depth, use intuition to find bass. I would put money on the pros winning. They just had more talent, hours upon hours each day for years or decades to practice refining their skills, and the endurance to do it all day going full speed. But today if you take away their screens and required them to actually, you know? Fish. Id put double on the average joes. (talking the average joe vs average pro here, not the best of the best) Its worth mentioning that the average guys are always underestimated. Ive seen more average joes in beat up old sit in kayaks or scratched up jon boats catch giant bass more than any tournament angler (except Milliken, he might be a total idiot "influencer" but the man can fish on and off the screens). 3 hours ago, AlabamaSpothunter said: I also don't consider anybody on a forum dedicated to catching Bass to be average joes for the most part either. Id agree, to me average joes are the guys who have the older combos, have 0 clue what im talking about when i say what new bait im using. And look confused as to why i bring so much stuff with me i dont use. locally atleast, these guys look very plain, nothing fancy, etc.... These guys would destroy anyone that tried to outfish them at the local lakes/ponds/rivers, something about the older ways of bass fishing they got taught just catch alot of bass. 3 hours ago, Pat Brown said: The way we discover people isn't based on their merit or skill or ability to succeed - it's really complicated what it takes for someone to be a professional at anything - the best are often not professionals at all and professionals are OFTEN not the best. Theres alot of really great, highly talented peopled, in this world. The person with the better personality, more money, who has connections will always go further. Even with an 1/8 of the talent. And i know theres people on this planet who are natural born bass fisherman, who have that ability to just catch bass most of us wont. But i doubt they have several hundred thousand to drop at their disposal to compete against a stacked deck. Which for most hobbies/professions money makes the money. 1 1
Rockhopper Posted January 28 Posted January 28 49 minutes ago, Pat Brown said: the best are often not professionals at all and professionals are OFTEN not the best. This is such a great statement. 1 1
Super User Jar11591 Posted January 28 Super User Posted January 28 1 hour ago, Rockhopper said: I think it is very naive to say that 0% of recreational anglers could compete on a pro level, and even win. Though the percentage is probably very very small across the US, you can't tell me there are not several expert level recreational anglers in our country that genuinely have zero interest in chasing a pro level tournament series, or even competing at all. Of the what...350 million?...people that live in the US alone, you really think that only 104 of them are good enough to fish the elites? That is like saying between the estimated 100 billion to 400 billion planets in our galaxy, earth is the only one that sustains life. There are more out there. The question isn’t how many average Joe’s could compete. The question was how many could dominate the pros. And I think the answer to that is a resounding “0”. Or such a small percentage that on any scale that isn’t minuscule, it’s effectively zero. I think people underestimate the gulf between pros and Joes. There is always that guy who thinks he can hit a major league fastball because he hit a couple dingers in beer league when in reality the bat would still be on his shoulders as it whizzes by him. 3
Super User Jar11591 Posted January 28 Super User Posted January 28 The White Mamba Brian Scalabrine once said to fans heckling him “I’m closer to LeBron than you are to me”. Hes right. The worst pro is closer in skill to the best pro, than the best non-pro is to the worst pro 999/1000 times. 2
Pat Brown Posted January 28 Posted January 28 4 minutes ago, Jar11591 said: The White Mamba Brian Scalabrine once said to fans heckling him “I’m closer to LeBron than you are to me”. Hes right. The worst pro is closer in skill to the best pro, than the best non-pro is to the worst pro 999/1000 times. NBA basketball = you have to be amazing and be picked out of many amazing competitors over the course of many years. The worst NBA player makes a lot more money than the highest paid bass fisherman on a great year after taxes and expenses incurred for each. Pro fishing - have enough money/sponsors to be able to buy into (gamble) your money with other similarly set up people while building social media following that centers around selling tackle for your sponsors. Not at all the same things. 2
Super User WRB Posted January 28 Super User Posted January 28 Old thread and I am 4 years older now. Age is very important to be able to fish a pro tournament trail. With few exceptions pro anglers between 30 to 50 years dominate the pro circuits. Average Joe is in their prime wage earning period of the lives unable to dedicate time to bass fishing and keep up with the fast changing technologies and time sell themselves to sponsors. Tournament bass fishing is night and day from recreational bass fishing. Tournaments have time restrictions, specific days to fish and off limit areas you can’t fish plus lots of rules that Average Joe doesn’t have. Pressure to catch bass under tournament conditions few Average Joe has the skill set to perform and make the cut! Tom 4
SkippinJimmy Posted January 28 Posted January 28 1 hour ago, AlabamaSpothunter said: Nobody who has posted in this thread is an average joe. I am an “average Joe” relative to national touring professionals. I am just not going to be competitive on a schedule like this. In a different life, who knows but in this life compared to national touring pro’s, it ain’t happening. And I am likely going to get completely embarrassed at the last two. 2024 Bassmaster Elite Series Schedule Feb. 22-25, Many, La., Toledo Bend Reservoir Feb. 29-March 3, Yantis, Texas, Lake Fork March 22-24, Bassmaster Classic, Tulsa, Okla., Grand Lake O’ the Cherokees April 11-14, Leesburg, Fla., Harris Chain of Lakes April 18-21, Palatka, Fla., St. Johns River May 9-12, Columbia, S.C., Lake Murray June 13-16, Decatur, Ala., Wheeler Lake June 27-30, Cullman, Ala., Smith Lake Aug. 8-11, Plattsburgh, N.Y., Lake Champlain Aug. 15-18, Waddington, N.Y., St. Lawrence River 1
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