Leader knots and micro guides

[HookinFattys]

Looking for input on using a leader line on both braided and flouro. I’ve been told to use about 1 1/2-3 feet of leader. I’m not sure if that’s good information though. To me that’s too much hanging out to cast with and when I do use that amount of leader it always gets caught at the tip and end up with frustration and epic backlash. 
 

How do I avoid this? I’m at the point where I don’t use a leader and feel like I’m wasting a lot of mainline when I do. I only have one rod right now so I Retie quite a bit while trying to find what works at the local Hatch’s. 

[MN Fisher]

1 hour ago, IneedAnewScreenName-546846848 said:

Looking for input on using a leader line on both braided and flouro.

Braid - can use a leader, but not necessary if you take proper precautions...I.E. don't try to move a mountain when you set the hook

FC - I don't see a need for a leader with FC...ever.

1 hour ago, IneedAnewScreenName-546846848 said:

I’ve been told to use about 1 1/2-3 feet of leader.

If you're putting a leader on braid for 'shock absorption' you'll want 8' plus...a lot of guys go for 15'-20'. A 3' or shorter leader isn't going to stretch enough to work for absorbing impact on hook-set. When my leader gets close to 3' from break-offs or lure changes...that's when I take it off and retie a new leader.

 

FG, Albright, Alberto...all good knots for mainline-to-leader connection that'll pass through your guides with little effort...no need to let the leader and knot hang outside the tip-top.

[Bluebasser86]

Why are you using the leader? Best case scenario would be to eliminate it altogether. I don't use a leader on any of my casting rigs with braid but I don't have any issues with my spinning rods that have braid and micro guides with an Alberto knot. 

[MN Fisher]

2 minutes ago, Bluebasser86 said:

Why are you using the leader? Best case scenario would be to eliminate it altogether. I don't use a leader on any of my casting rigs with braid but I don't have any issues with my spinning rods that have braid and micro guides with an Alberto knot. 

Ya - my two BCs that have braid...only one gets a leader, and that's only occasionally.

Only rig that always has a leader is my finesse spinning rig. 10# braid to 6#FC, tied with a FG knot. 12' of leader to start...no issues casting with that.

[HookinFattys]

1 hour ago, Bluebasser86 said:

Why are you using the leader? Best case scenario would be to eliminate it altogether. I don't use a leader on any of my casting rigs with braid but I don't have any issues with my spinning rods that have braid and micro guides with an Alberto knot. 

I guess the short answer is I started with braid and no leader and a few people told me I should use one if for no other reason than to save the mainline from getting shorter and shorter with each lure change. 
 

Im just going to eliminate the leader for now and work on getting some additional rods and reels so the changes won’t be so frequent and I’ll have options on the fly. 

[MickD]

Bite the bullet and learn a good braid to leader knot.  It will give you the versatility to go either way.  I suggest the improved Alberto.  Tie it like the charts say, set it very tightly , then add two overhand knots of the braid tag end, tightened.  

 

I start with the loop of the leader in my left hand with the loop tag end pointing left, run the braid through the loop, keep holding with the left.  Now wrap the braid around the "stem" of the loop, working left to right, seven times around.  Now grab it with the right hand at the end of the wraps and wrap back seven times.  Put the braid tag end back through the loop parallell to it as it comes into the loop.  Now pull on the main lines to start the knot to tighten, pull on the tag end of the leader to close the loop half tight.  Now wet the knot and set it tightly by alternately pulling on the mainlines and the leader tag end.  You want that leader pulled very tightly to close the loop tightly.  Now add the two braid tag end knots, set them as you tie them, and trim.  

 

This knot with a little practice becomes a piece of cake and will go through micros nicely with reasonable leader pound tests.  I use it with 15 pound test and size 4 micros and it works great.

 

Sensing your knot reluctance I would not recommend the FG, but the improved Alberto is easy and reliable.  You really need a leader on your finesse rig to absord some shock (I think you get nice shock absorption with about 6 feet-I don't think you need 10-15 feet.  If you're going that long just use all FC or mono), and you are  not cutting off your main line every time you change lures.  I also am one who has experienced line-shy bass in clear water even with fairly light braids.  

[dodgeguy]

Leaders are for fly fisherman.

[gunsinger]

4 hours ago, IneedAnewScreenName-546846848 said:

I guess the short answer is I started with braid and no leader and a few people told me I should use one if for no other reason than to save the mainline from getting shorter and shorter with each lure change. 
 

Im just going to eliminate the leader for now and work on getting some additional rods and reels so the changes won’t be so frequent and I’ll have options on the fly. 

Not all will agree but i use Norman Speed Clips on many of my casting rods so I can change quickly without retying.  The only things I tie direct are worm rigs, jigs, and spinnerbaits.

[HookinFattys]

5 hours ago, MickD said:

Bite the bullet and learn a good braid to leader knot.  It will give you the versatility to go either way.  I suggest the improved Alberto.  Tie it like the charts say, set it very tightly , then add two overhand knots of the braid tag end, tightened.  

 

I start with the loop of the leader in my left hand with the loop tag end pointing left, run the braid through the loop, keep holding with the left.  Now wrap the braid around the "stem" of the loop, working left to right, seven times around.  Now grab it with the right hand at the end of the wraps and wrap back seven times.  Put the braid tag end back through the loop parallell to it as it comes into the loop.  Now pull on the main lines to start the knot to tighten, pull on the tag end of the leader to close the loop half tight.  Now wet the knot and set it tightly by alternately pulling on the mainlines and the leader tag end.  You want that leader pulled very tightly to close the loop tightly.  Now add the two braid tag end knots, set them as you tie them, and trim.  

 

This knot with a little practice becomes a piece of cake and will go through micros nicely with reasonable leader pound tests.  I use it with 15 pound test and size 4 micros and it works great.

 

Sensing your knot reluctance I would not recommend the FG, but the improved Alberto is easy and reliable.  You really need a leader on your finesse rig to absord some shock (I think you get nice shock absorption with about 6 feet-I don't think you need 10-15 feet.  If you're going that long just use all FC or mono), and you are  not cutting off your main line every time you change lures.  I also am one who has experienced line-shy bass in clear water even with fairly light braids.  

For whatever reason tying knots comes pretty easy to me, not sure if it’s a super power or I just get lucky. ? I’m wondering if it’s my casting technique. No matter the knot I always get backlash. I’ve tried the The Improved Alberto, Blood Knot and the Surgeons Knot. All of which I has issues at the tip of the rod. ??‍♂️

[WRB]

I started bass fishing at Big Bear lake in SoCal in the mid 50’s when Braid was the only line used on bait casting reels.

When spinning reels became more popular monofilament line also became available along with free spool bait casting reels.

By the 60’s The Ambassador Abu Casting reels with free spools and star drags nylon mono line became predominate, braid disappeared for several decades. Super braids that are small diameter appeared in the late 90’s and has slowly become popular for spinning reels with a leader to reduce line twist. Braid on bait casting reels is now popular in regions with bass water the have heavy aquatic vegetation, braid cuts through weeds.

I changed to mono for my bass fishing in SoCal 60 years ago and haven’t needed braid since. The only exception was fishing at Delta and Clear lake in heavy cover. I see no need for braid with a leader on bait casting reels in SoCal lakes. 

I use Sunline Defier Armillo 11 lb for mono and Sunline shooter or Seaguar Tatsu 12 lb straight FC for everything except finesse spinning and big swimbaits.

Long explanation targeted for the OP in SoCal.

Tom

 

 

[HookinFattys]

15 minutes ago, WRB said:

I started bass fishing at Big Bear lake in SoCal in the mid 50’s when Braid was the only line used on bait casting reels.

When spinning reels became more popular monofilament line also became available along with free spool bait casting reels.

By the 60’s The Ambassador Abu Casting reels with free spools and star drags nylon mono line became predominate, braid disappeared for several decades. Super braids that are small diameter appeared in the late 90’s and has slowly become popular for spinning reels with a leader to reduce line twist. Braid on bait casting reels is now popular in regions with bass water the have heavy aquatic vegetation, braid cuts through weeds.

I changed to mono for my bass fishing in SoCal 60 years ago and haven’t needed braid since. The only exception was fishing at Delta and Clear lake in heavy cover. I see no need for braid with a leader on bait casting reels in SoCal lakes. 

I use Sunline Defier Armillo 11 lb for mono and Sunline shooter or Seaguar Tatsu 12 lb straight FC for everything except finesse spinning and big swimbaits.

Long explanation targeted for the OP in SoCal.

Tom

 

 

Thanks Tom. I have two reels and one rod. I had 50lb braid on one and 30 on the other but ratsnested one of them yesterday to the point that after a good 15 minutes of trying to remedy that situation I just cut it all off and put 12lb FC. With the issues I’m having with leaders I’m just running straight FC on the one and to me it seems like it casts better than the braid (even straight braid). To alleviate the hang up with the leader on the braid I was only using about 12 inches of FC so I could bypass the annoying “Thud” when casting a longer leader through the guides. 

It appears the majority of reply’s suggest not using a leader unless I’m using a finesse set up. For now I’m going to stick with FC and no leader. As time goes by and I become more proficient with the basics I may change it up. 
 

 

Thank you all for your input. I appreciate this community and look forward to learning from you all!!

[WRB]

Make sure you use either Tangle Free or KVD line conditioner with straight FC to help the line stay wetted and on the spool during the cast.

You will use a finesse spinning outfit more then a braid casting combo in SoCal highly pressured bass lakes.

Tom

[HookinFattys]

27 minutes ago, WRB said:

Make sure you use either Tangle Free or KVD line conditioner with straight FC to help the line stay wetted and on the spool during the cast.

You will use a finesse spinning outfit more then a braid casting combo in SoCal highly pressured bass lakes.

Tom

Thanks for the tip. I didn’t know there was conditioner for fishing line. Is it something that needs to be applied often ie: multiple times per outing or is it more of a daily thing? I have a Shampoo and Conditioner in one, think that will work? ?

 

I’ll check it out, I’m headed to my local tackle shop today and I’ll check it out. 

[MickD]

2 hours ago, HookinFattys said:

 I have a Shampoo and Conditioner in one, think that will work? ?

Not sure the fish will like the smell it leaves.  

[MN Fisher]

2 hours ago, HookinFattys said:

Thanks for the tip. I didn’t know there was conditioner for fishing line. Is it something that needs to be applied often ie: multiple times per outing or is it more of a daily thing? I have a Shampoo and Conditioner in one, think that will work? ?

 

I’ll check it out, I’m headed to my local tackle shop today and I’ll check it out. 

I use KVD - but not on braid. Mono, FC, Co-Polymer all get it though.

 

One good 'soak' while spooling the line on the reel - get a washcloth decently wet and run the line through it while spooling.

Other than that, just a few spritzes the night before I go out. Never needed to re-apply while out in the canoe.

[OkobojiEagle]

17 hours ago, HookinFattys said:

gets caught at the tip

replace the tip

 

oe

 

 

[Deleted account]

17 hours ago, HookinFattys said:

Leader knot not and micro guides

FIFY.

[huZZah]

Alberto knot here. Never had a problem. Although I also don’t use leaders because I think the fish can see it in my dirty lakes, I do it for abrasion, saving braid, shock absorption, etc. I mostly use straight braid. 

[Kenny Yi]

I hate tying leader knots, my solution is to go straight...

[Deleted account]

On 9/1/2021 at 7:22 AM, dodgeguy said:

Leaders are for fly fisherman.

And Chief Selects.... Congratulations Class 128.