Losing big Smallmouth often lately, need advice.

[kayaking_kev]

Almost every big smallie I've got a hold of this year has gotten off, I've had it happen quite a bit last season also.

I've had no problems with the smaller ones, and once in awhile I can land a nice one, but last week I had a huge one that might of been my PB rip the front treble hooks and the split ring right off my Whopper Plopper size 90. This river was calm and no more than 2 ft. deep at this spot.

 

And then, yesterday I'm doing a little wading in the river due to limited time, and I hook up on 4 big smallies in a 20 minutes span. I fought them, some longer than others depending on the drag, a couple of them I was able to even get them within reaching distance of me before they busted loose. I will say though that the smallies in this particular river are mean and fight very hard.

 

BTW, I'm mostly kayak fishing on 2 ft. deep rivers when fishing for smallies. I mostly use a WP size 90 & occasionally the 110, and a Squarebill, and it happens with both lures. My cranking rod is a custom Phenix X-10 and the reel is a SLX MGL 70 6.3.1. I've caught 95% of my fish on that combo this year and I've got a Conquest, Xtasy, and 4 Custom X-Rays.

 

I've tried loosening my drag and letting them tire themselves out and I've tried tighten it to power them in quickly.

I wasn't sure if I was sweep hooking to hard and creating a hole in the fish's mouth for the hook to slip out of, so I tried just reeling hard when I hooked up.

I was using brand new Gamakatsu Trebles on front and back yesterday of the WP I used, and just recently changed the hooks on my favorite Squarebill. 

 

I'm almost sure it's something technical, but not exactly sure what. Maybe, I'm reeling too hard when they are running hard, it does seem like they are also running hard at first and it don't let up until they are spent. And, on top of that the water is 2 ft. deep or less, so they tend to jump out of the water multiple times and in a lot of case that's when they spit the lure and I lose them.

 

I guess what I'd like to know is about the best way to set my drag in these situations, how to handle fight the river smallies when they keep pulling hard, the best way to help prevent them from spitting lures, and any other advice you can give me. Thanks!

 

[TnRiver46]

My advice is hook them with something else. I used to be the worlds worst at throwing  spooks and prop baits all day long for river smallies. I typically could get the biggest fish of the day to blow up the lures, and of course sometimes caught the biggest fish of the day. But if your goal is landing most of the fish that hook up, an 1/8 oz round ball jighead or 2/0-3/0 offset worm hook will greatly tilt the odds in your favor. People think im crazy for using jigheads with small hooks but when a big smallmouth eats them, they are almost always hooked solidly in the top of the mouth. It’s hard to get out, my knuckles are usually scraped up from trying to poke the jig out of the roof of their mouth. Treble hooks lose fish, no way around it 

^hook ‘em and land ‘em 20” smallmouth special (put a tube or worm on it in summer)

[GaryH]

10 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

People think im crazy for using jigheads with small hooks but when a big smallmouth eats them, they are almost always hooked solidly in the top of the mouth. 

And you think people think your crazy only because of that..???????

[TnRiver46]

Just now, GaryH said:

And you think people think your crazy only because of that..???????

Haha! Good point……… it’s one reason among many 

[Dwight Hottle]

Sounds like you need a moderate action rod to help keep them hooked up rather than a too loose drag.  I would suggest you change your hooks over to Mustad triple grip trebles or Owner STX Zowire hooks. Big smallies will win the fight occasionally when hooked up with treble hooked baits they can swing back &  forth when they jump. The right hook & right action rod will improve your landing ratio. Look at the bright side. You are hooking up the bigger fish you just need to improve your landing ratio.   

[Scott F]

I’m a river smallmouth guy too. One of my favorite, shallow river, smallmouth baits is a Mepps spinner. I get more bites throwing them than all my other baits combined. Small spinners get even more bites but the fish can get very small. My big problem was that the #4 Mepps while it got bites from big fish frequently, it also gets thrown back at me nearly every time the fish jumps. I thought it might be due to poor hooks. I cut off the factory treble, added a split ring and put on a premium hook. Next fish, jumped and threw the lure. This year, on my annual, week long, river fishing trip, I didn’t even bring a #4 to keep me from being tempted to even throw one which I knew would break my heart the first time a big one jumped and tossed it back to me. I did however bring some smaller spinners for experimenting. As I knew they would, small, 1/4oz Rooster Tails got bites but half were too small to be even called dinks. I did bring a couple of #3 Mepps which got me good numbers of both small and larger fish but the best news was that only a small percentage of jumpers got away. The rest of my gear, medium light, fast, spinning gear with 10lb braid and no leader remained the same as when I was throwing the larger Mepps. My conclusion is that the heavier baits provided more leverage and the larger hooks didn’t penetrate as deeply giving the fish an easier time to shake the bait free. I’m also a Whopper Plopper fan but haven’t had any issues with big smallmouth shaking those free on me. 

[Chris Catignani]

2 hours ago, kayaking_kev said:

Almost every big smallie I've got a hold of this year....and any other advice you can give me. Thanks!

 

Seems to me that your totally over-thinking it...

Set your drag to the pound test and forget it...(ok...maybe loosen it a tick if its Ol Ned)

One thing I do is check the hook point and sharpen it if needed.

Dont beat yourself up if one comes off..

[padon]

owner split rings and trebles would be my first move.sad to say but alot of factory lures these days come with garbage hardware.

[Tatsu Dave]

42 minutes ago, Chris Catignani said:

One thing I do is check the hook point and sharpen it if needed.

Dont beat yourself up if one comes off..

Many years ago an old fisherman showed me how to sharpen hooks with three sided cutting edges. Even large hooks will penetrate good when sharp and they are eating craw's and tend to have harder jaws this time of year. Barbless hooks come loose and throw easier, and larger smarter SM's are pretty good at avoiding being landed. I think most would agree that a big SM fights like they are pure energy with fins....thats why they are so much fun to catch.

[kayaking_kev]

I looked up the exact kind of trebles I used as replacement after a big one rip one off.

Owner Stinger Treble Hooks Red ST-36RD

 

I changed both front and back with the same size of the stock hooks. I also think WP comes with pretty good stock hardware, I have several, but particular one was the 1st one I ever bought and is beat up and has caught a lot of fish.

 

I also changed the hooks on my square bill, but I did switch from size 5 stock to a size 4 in front and 6 in back.

 

I also have a hook sharpener, but these were brand new hooks that were very sharp.

 

Every single I've always lost the occasionally big SM, but nothing like lately. I mean 4 of them in a span of 20 minutes yesterday was harsh.

 

I feel like it's a technical or mechanical mistake, and I should loosen the drag, but then they pull so hard and long that they would end up half way down the river or spool me out, plus there are plenty of obstacles I want to keep them out off on the river. I think it's drag, hook set method, or the way I'm fighting the fish is the problem, but I can't figure out which and have tried to change it all up. I don't know, maybe I just to work out finding the right adjustment or combos of adjustments.

4 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

My advice is hook them with something else. I used to be the worlds worst at throwing  spooks and prop baits all day long for river smallies. I typically could get the biggest fish of the day to blow up the lures, and of course sometimes caught the biggest fish of the day. But if your goal is landing most of the fish that hook up, an 1/8 oz round ball jighead or 2/0-3/0 offset worm hook will greatly tilt the odds in your favor. People think im crazy for using jigheads with small hooks but when a big smallmouth eats them, they are almost always hooked solidly in the top of the mouth. It’s hard to get out, my knuckles are usually scraped up from trying to poke the jig out of the roof of their mouth. Treble hooks lose fish, no way around it 

^hook ‘em and land ‘em 20” smallmouth special (put a tube or worm on it in summer)

 

The previous couple of season I used a Neko rig with a light weight nail and it caught me a lot, but it seems this year I have given my less time to fish slow and have to rely more on cranking to cover water. But, I could try that setup sometime. I'm getting to head to the river in a few, maybe I'll take some tubes.

3 hours ago, Scott F said:

I’m a river smallmouth guy too. One of my favorite, shallow river, smallmouth baits is a Mepps spinner. I get more bites throwing them than all my other baits combined. Small spinners get even more bites but the fish can get very small. My big problem was that the #4 Mepps while it got bites from big fish frequently, it also gets thrown back at me nearly every time the fish jumps. I thought it might be due to poor hooks. I cut off the factory treble, added a split ring and put on a premium hook. Next fish, jumped and threw the lure. This year, on my annual, week long, river fishing trip, I didn’t even bring a #4 to keep me from being tempted to even throw one which I knew would break my heart the first time a big one jumped and tossed it back to me. I did however bring some smaller spinners for experimenting. As I knew they would, small, 1/4oz Rooster Tails got bites but half were too small to be even called dinks. I did bring a couple of #3 Mepps which got me good numbers of both small and larger fish but the best news was that only a small percentage of jumpers got away. The rest of my gear, medium light, fast, spinning gear with 10lb braid and no leader remained the same as when I was throwing the larger Mepps. My conclusion is that the heavier baits provided more leverage and the larger hooks didn’t penetrate as deeply giving the fish an easier time to shake the bait free. I’m also a Whopper Plopper fan but haven’t had any issues with big smallmouth shaking those free on me. 

 

What's the normal depth of the rivers you usually fish? It's really hard to throw anything moving besides topwater, because of how shallow it is and how many snags and weeds there can be.

 

I believe you're right about the heavier lures though, it has always happened with me with Lipless cranks a lot. Maybe I'll throw the size 60 WP more.

[kayaking_kev]

3 hours ago, Dwight Hottle said:

Sounds like you need a moderate action rod to help keep them hooked up rather than a too loose drag.  I would suggest you change your hooks over to Mustad triple grip trebles or Owner STX Zowire hooks. Big smallies will win the fight occasionally when hooked up with treble hooked baits they can swing back &  forth when they jump. The right hook & right action rod will improve your landing ratio. Look at the bright side. You are hooking up the bigger fish you just need to improve your landing ratio.   

 

The Phenix X-10 is the most moderate action rod I've owned besides the Dobyns Champion 704cb Glass, and not by a whole lot. I'm not sure there is a more moderate rod that can handle the WP 60, 75, & 90 and even the 110 somewhat decent.

[Kev-mo]

Mostly river fish for smallies myself. If you have fish ripping split rings and hooks off baits either the split rings and hooks are weak, your pulling too hard, your equipment is mismatched or some combination.

 

I fish a ML XF Avid with a 2500 reel and 20 pound braid and as long as the drag is set right I'm golden. I also fish a XX flat side special with a 51 size reel and 20 pound braid and again the drag is key. Here tho it's for the initial hookset, the med hvy moderate rod comes into play after hookset regardless of bait being used.

 

Obviously polar opposite combos but both work. Btw I've lost big fish myself and most it has been operator error.... 

[TnRiver46]

32 minutes ago, kayaking_kev said:

I looked up the exact kind of trebles I used as replacement after a big one rip one off.

Owner Stinger Treble Hooks Red ST-36RD

 

I changed both front and back with the same size of the stock hooks. I also think WP comes with pretty good stock hardware, I have several, but particular one was the 1st one I ever bought and is beat up and has caught a lot of fish.

 

I also changed the hooks on my square bill, but I did switch from size 5 stock to a size 4 in front and 6 in back.

 

I also have a hook sharpener, but these were brand new hooks that were very sharp.

 

Every single I've always lost the occasionally big SM, but nothing like lately. I mean 4 of them in a span of 20 minutes yesterday was harsh.

 

I feel like it's a technical or mechanical mistake, and I should loosen the drag, but then they pull so hard and long that they would end up half way down the river or spool me out, plus there are plenty of obstacles I want to keep them out off on the river. I think it's drag, hook set method, or the way I'm fighting the fish is the problem, but I can't figure out which and have tried to change it all up. I don't know, maybe I just to work out finding the right adjustment or combos of adjustments.

 

The previous couple of season I used a Neko rig with a light weight nail and it caught me a lot, but it seems this year I have given my less time to fish slow and have to rely more on cranking to cover water. But, I could try that setup sometime. I'm getting to head to the river in a few, maybe I'll take some tubes.

 

What's the normal depth of the rivers you usually fish? It's really hard to throw anything moving besides topwater, because of how shallow it is and how many snags and weeds there can be.

 

I believe you're right about the heavier lures though, it has always happened with me with Lipless cranks a lot. Maybe I'll throw the size 60 WP more.

Lost 4 in a row off owner ST -36s?????

 

what about all those posts that say they’ve never lost a single fish with those hooks?????

 

I’m just being snarky, you already know they can sling heavy lures. It’s just something they do! Not the hooks fault or your fault, it just happens. If I lose 4 big ones in a row, I’m picking up litter and loading old ladies groceries in their car, trying to build up river karma haha

[MGF]

I lost two nice ones Sunday and one was really really nice. Note that I had just posted that I haven't been losing fish on my barbless hooks.

 

I was using a #1 gama ewg and a zoom finesse worm. On the first I just got caught behind. By the time I realized it was a fish I had tightened up on him but never really set the hook. That little ewg isn't hard to set but it doesn't always happen on it's own.

 

The second and even larger fish...I thought he was mine. Then I felt him come towards me and really shake his head. And...he was gone.

[Sphynx]

Nothing I know of keeps them pinned quite like an Owner hook for me, but that's only part of the equation, gotta match your rod, and your line to your presentation too, and even when you get all of that right you'll still have a few that get loose on you, I would say that after some rather unscientific testing, I have found that a hook really needs some touching up after somewhere in the 5-10 fish range depending on where in the mouth you hook them, and how much they beat up the still exposed points, but I get a noticeable difference in hookup to land ratio with a hook after about 5-10 fish until I run the points over a diamond stone again. 

[NHBull]

If you are loosing them on the WP try adding an additional split ring or use a piece of braid to tie the treble to the bait.  Both methods will reduce the leverage the fish has

[gim]

7 hours ago, Chris Catignani said:

Dont beat yourself up if one comes off.

I agree. I fish a river very similar to what the OP describes in midsummer (not this year, it’s way too low because we’re in a major drought) for brown bass. They fight harder and are stronger than their lake cousins because of the current. You’d swear a fish was 19 inches and then you see it and it’s 13.

 

I lose may fair share of fish when targeting river smallmouth. My preferred lure is the discontinued storm subwart. Hard to imagine that so many bass can miss or come lose on a lure with treble hooks, but it happens frequently. Just part of doing business with the rivers of bronze.

[Scott F]

4 hours ago, kayaking_kev said:

What's the normal depth of the rivers you usually fish? It's really hard to throw anything moving besides topwater, because of how shallow it is and how many snags and weeds there can be.

The rivers I fish get as deep as 10-12 feet, but the water where I catch smallies is almost always less than 3-4 feet. Many times less than 1 foot. That’s a big reason why they jump. They can’t go deep, so they go up. Grass is often an issue, but I don’t use in-line spinners in the grass

[Junk Fisherman]

11 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

My advice is hook them with something else. I used to be the worlds worst at throwing  spooks and prop baits all day long for river smallies. I typically could get the biggest fish of the day to blow up the lures, and of course sometimes caught the biggest fish of the day. But if your goal is landing most of the fish that hook up, an 1/8 oz round ball jighead or 2/0-3/0 offset worm hook will greatly tilt the odds in your favor. People think im crazy for using jigheads with small hooks but when a big smallmouth eats them, they are almost always hooked solidly in the top of the mouth.

 

Probably 75% of the big smallmouth I have caught this year are either on a dropshot with a #1 Gammy hook or a Ned rig with a #2 hook.  I don't even consider those small hooks since I get such solid hookups.  It's not even something I think about.

 

In terms of the OP's question, it sounds like you have just gotten unlucky recently.  Big smallmouth are hard to land.  I find that most of the time when I lose a big fish it is because I am not patient enough.  Granted, I am fishing Lake Michigan and have deep water to just let the fish tire itself out so now I have learned to give the fish plenty of time before netting.   You know a big fish is going to make a couple runs so I don't try to to land it until it is ready.  If you find out that it is something technical, please post what you find out.   

[TnRiver46]

12 minutes ago, Junk Fisherman said:

 

Probably 75% of the big smallmouth I have caught this year are either on a dropshot with a #1 Gammy hook or a Ned rig with a #2 hook.  I don't even consider those small hooks since I get such solid hookups.  It's not even something I think about.

 

In terms of the OP's question, it sounds like you have just gotten unlucky recently.  Big smallmouth are hard to land.  I find that most of the time when I lose a big fish it is because I am not patient enough.  Granted, I am fishing Lake Michigan and have deep water to just let the fish tire itself out so now I have learned to give the fish plenty of time before netting.   You know a big fish is going to make a couple runs so I don't try to to land it until it is ready.  If you find out that it is something technical, please post what you find out.   

Those little hooks are magically sticky!

[BoatSquirrel]

11 hours ago, Dwight Hottle said:

Sounds like you need a moderate action rod

Yup-I bet you dont lose many fish on treble hook baits Mr. Hottle.  

[Scott804]

Thinner wire hooks will penetrate and stay stuck much easier, but if you don't play the fish correctly they will bend out. 

 

When you hear guys complain about the Megabass Vision 110 hooks, it is exactly this, they will bend out if you force them. It is incredibly difficult to train yourself to "trust" treblehooks, but the thin wire ones will stick em and stay stuck as long as they aren't hooked super funky, it is just a matter of trusting the hooks. 

 

Maybe try some thinner wire hooks if coming undone is your issue. 

[papajoe222]

If you had a fish rip the split ring and treble hook off of your Plopper, your rod is over powered for the presentation and your drag is set way too tight. You don't need a lot of power to hook-up with treble hooks. A Med. power  mod/fast action rod is ideal for that lure.  It's length is a personal preference.  Unless I'm throwing big, treble hook topwaters, this is the rod I'm using.

[TnRiver46]

12 minutes ago, papajoe222 said:

If you had a fish rip the split ring and treble hook off of your Plopper, your rod is over powered for the presentation and your drag is set way too tight. You don't need a lot of power to hook-up with treble hooks. A Med. power  mod/fast action rod is ideal for that lure.  It's length is a personal preference.  Unless I'm throwing big, treble hook topwaters, this is the rod I'm using.

That makes sense to me because I use some whippy rods and I’ve done tons and tons of fishing, and the only time I had a split ring and hook disappear was a striper related incident. They are just really fast 

[kayaking_kev]

15 minutes ago, papajoe222 said:

If you had a fish rip the split ring and treble hook off of your Plopper, your rod is over powered for the presentation and your drag is set way too tight. You don't need a lot of power to hook-up with treble hooks. A Med. power  mod/fast action rod is ideal for that lure.  It's length is a personal preference.  Unless I'm throwing big, treble hook topwaters, this is the rod I'm using.

 

1 minute ago, TnRiver46 said:

That makes sense to me because I use some whippy rods and I’ve done tons and tons of fishing, and the only time I had a split ring and hook disappear was a striper related incident. They are just really fast 

 

I have it on video, I record everything. I might have to bleep out the cusswords that followed. I hooked it and it jumped once or twice and ran at my kayak and it started to go under my kayak I think, and I think my drag was just to tight and I pulled to hard to try and stop it from going under.

 

I'm starting to think it's my drag being be to tight and I'm pulling to hard. I think that may be for two reasons. My 2nd year of fishing (2 years ago), I caught my PB Bass, a 4 lb 10 oz. LM, and someone watched the video and made a comment about it being the longest fight for a 5 lber. ever. It took a few minutes for me to land it, but it was my first big fish, I was using an Med. 6'0 Ugly Stik Gx2 and I didn't think it took all that long, maybe 3 minutes and there was some vegetation. But, anyway that comment kind of stuck with me for some reason, and plus I see these pros who just ski these fish to the boat. The 2nd reason may because I have caught a lot of dinks most of this season and now I'm finally getting a lot of hits from big fish. I'm still able to land the small ones, but I think me overpowering the bigger ones might be creating too big of holes where the hooks can more easily be spit out. 

 

I went out earlier this evening and the same thing happened. I landed the small ones, missed some really nice ones. I even tried a tube and hooked up on a nice one and it even jumped and spit that right out.

 

So, I'm going to loosen up my drag and let the fish make it's runs and let it get tired and see how that goes. I'll probably be going on a big river trip tomorrow if the levels don't drop anymore and there's some real nice SM there, so I will let you know what happens.