Upgrading To Boca Bearings For Spinning Reel...?

[Crow Horse]

Has anyone upgraded the bearings in their spinning reel with Boca bearings? If so, what were the results?

[WRB]

Nothing in a spinning reel needs close tolerance high speed bearings.

Tom

 

[cadman]

Don't waste your money with a spinning reel. There's nothing that free spools in a spinning reel.

[bulldog1935]

Spinning reel drives need shielded bearings with long-life lube - the purpose of shielding is to retain the lube.  

You hope quality factory bearings come this way.  

 

The one place you might want to upgrade spinning reel drive bearings to HCRB (Daiwa mag seal) is surf fishing, but still fish through your first set before you rebuild with upgrade.  

 

Where you want racy low-inertia bearings are in baitcaster spools. 

[Crow Horse]

I would think that a high quality bearing is superior to a standard bearing  generally speaking. Similar to the improvement of changing out the standard bearings in rollerblades to an ABEC 7 bearing. They don't freespool and deliver a huge improvement.

 

It might not be cost effective on a spinning reel but I have a difficult time thinking that upgrading would not be perceptible in terms of smoothness.

[bulldog1935]

what you usually buy are lighter-weight hybrid-ceramic bearings.  

But again, bearing lube and especially lube life in the application is what you're after in spinning reels.  

 

You'll have a hard time noticing the difference in a spinning reel, unless you fool yourself.  

Since my reels are in the salt, I replace bearings after 4 to 6 years - for me, that's a good time to upgrade.  

[J Francho]

I've never needed to upgrade a bearing in a spinning reel.  I have replaced bearings that failed.  Usually that's the roller bearing. The higher ABEC rated bearings are for higher precision at very high RPM - nothing that is seen in a spinning reel.  The important part was already mentioned: shields or seals.  Shields are easier to maintain since a drop of oil now and then as needed is all it takes to keep them running smoothly. As said they keep the lubricant in and the dirt out.  I don't see the comparison to rollerblade bearings, and in fact as a skateboarder, I see touting ABEC ratings as marketing hype, and irrelevant to the forces exerted on bearings in wheel sports such as rollerblades, quads, scooters and skateboards.  Bearings for these must withstand impact and torque more than RPM.  That's said, a higher ABEC rated bearing or ceramic (I use Bones Ceramics) does have a certain feel over SS bearings, so there's that aspect.  In a fishing application, that feel might actually be a drawback where smoothness is often preferred.

[Crow Horse]

Interesting points to consider.

My limited experience with bearings other than automotive bearings was the difference between the "standard" bearings in roller blades. The ABEC rated bearings  spin effortlessly and keep spinning whereas the standard bearings definitely didn't spin as freely and smoothly.

Another experience was when I modified larger wheels and tires for my kayak carts. The bearings that came with the wheels were poor at best both visually and by feel. Replacing them with precision bearings did make a difference in how the cart with yak rolled and had the added benefit of being less likely to fail.

In a spinning reel application it sounds like this won't matter in the least. I have difficulty wrapping my mind around that. I'm still thinking it will make a difference but as to how much difference and at what cost is still a mystery.

I'll pose this question and no disrespect is intended or implied. What we're discussing is just speculation and no one has actually changed to ABEC   bearings in a spinning reel. Has anyone actually done this to a spinning reel and conclude that it was a waste of money and effort because of poor results or no benefit?

[J Francho]

17 minutes ago, Crow Horse said:

Has anyone actually done this to a spinning reel and conclude that it was a waste of money and effort because of poor results or no benefit?

Yes, for both reasons: the reel felt rougher and there was no benefit when changing the main rotor support bearing to a ceramic hybrid bearing (ABEC 7).  Most reels are ABEC 3 or equivalent from the factory, though it's highly unlikely they're using rated bearings.  That doesn't mean they are inferior to a rated bearing.  In fact they may be better in that application.  I've also heard customer complaints when converting baitcasters to certain bearings, though performance was increased.  The reels felt "not as smooth."  Some prefer "buttery" operation.  Often the fix was to use a more viscous lubricant.  My own personal preference shows in my technique of packing knob bearings with grease because I do not want the knobs spinning freely.  Faster and freer doesn't always equate to better. 

30 minutes ago, Crow Horse said:

The ABEC rated bearings  spin effortlessly and keep spinning whereas the standard bearings definitely didn't spin as freely and smoothly.

Another experience was when I modified larger wheels and tires for my kayak carts. The bearings that came with the wheels were poor at best both visually and by feel. Replacing them with precision bearings did make a difference in how the cart with yak rolled and had the added benefit of being less likely to fail.

I have no idea about comparing "standard" rollerblade bearings to rated bearings, though I have no doubt upgraded bearings spin better.  For skateboards, there's cheap crap bearings and there's quality bearings.  They all spin well out of the box.  Again, I don't see any relevance to a spinning reel. 

 

Bottom line:

If your spinning reel operates smoothly, silently, with little effort, what is there to improve upon?  The only bearing that really needs special care and attention is the roller bearing.  I have replaced failed bearings with upgraded bearings, and it does improve operation because, well the old one failed.  The benefit here is in durability and resistance to corrosion.  Also, mostly because the upgraded bearings were less expensive to source than OEM parts.

[Crow Horse]

Thank you! Your response is exactly what I needed to hear.

One more question just to clarify, when you refer to the roller bearing, do you mean the line roller bearing?

I guess I was driving to make a sub $100 reel perform similarly to that of a Van Staal and the reality of that is that it's not going to happen in this universe. You can't fault a guy for trying....

[bulldog1935]

A/R clutch roller bearing? - there's one inside this sealed housing

 

 

ah, got it, not roller bearing, but bearing inside line roller.  

Fully sealed reels, Van Staal, IRT, are stiff as all get-out.  

There's a really good line roller upgrade made by MTCW for each Shimano and Daiwa that eliminates the need for line roller seals.  

The line roller is titanium, and the dual bearings are not shielded.  

IOS Factory makes one similar with hard anodized line roller.  

This means something - putting a good bearing in a lousy line roller design that's designed to need replacing, anyway, isn't cost-effective.  

 

[J Francho]

13 minutes ago, Crow Horse said:

Thank you! Your response is exactly what I needed to hear.

One more question just to clarify, when you refer to the roller bearing, do you mean the line roller bearing?

I guess I was driving to make a sub $100 reel perform similarly to that of a Van Staal and the reality of that is that it's not going to happen in this universe. You can't fault a guy for trying....

Yes, line roller bearing. 

[CrankFate]

If the el cheap o spinning reels I have work fine over the years without issue, obviously the quality reels have much better bearings. I just dusted off an old spinner for my wife to use that’s been in the garage a good 6-7 years. Worked fine. Has been fished very heavily for a good 10 years before that. So I’d say there’s no need, except maybe with the bail ball bearing if you want extreme performance.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

I concur that the line roller bearing takes a lot of abuse and should be maintained and possibly upgraded. I have, on occasion installed shielded ceramic bearings in salt water reels. Usually after corrosion or failure of the stock ones. High ABEC ratings are not important. In general for a bass spinning reel your money is much better spent on regular and meticulous maintenance and possibly a carbon drag. 

[Bankc]

On a spinning reel, the spool doesn't spin (except for drag) so new bearings won't add distance to your cast.  They may make reeling more smooth if there's something wrong with your old bearings.  But mostly the smoothness of the reel is a result of the rigidity and precision of the frame and internal parts.  So if you have super high quality bearings, but the bearings aren't precisely aligned by the frame or the gears don't perfectly meshed, it's still going to retrieve rough.  

 

So bearings do matter.  But they're just one part of the equation.  And chances are if the reel manufacturer spent the time and money to ensure the precision and quality of the rest of the reel, then they probably used high quality bearings too.  And if they used cheap bearings, they probably didn't build the rest of the reel to the tolerances necessary to take advantage of higher quality bearings.  

[J Francho]

Less expensive reels often have more bearings. The design relies on the bearings to keep the parts in alignment, even if the frame is not perfect. The reality is a well made reel only needs 4-5 bearings. My dad's German DAM Quick with a true worm drive - not a crown and pinion - is as smooth as butter and only has one bearing. 

[Crow Horse]

Do manufacturers of $100 and under reels generally use bearings (metric) that are easily sourced? Replacing a bad bearing(s) would be a lot cheaper with sourced bearings and not using the reel manufacturer's bearing.

[bulldog1935]

@Crow Horse

yes, all bearings are standard sizes:  

You might find different names for them, some beginning with MR

 

Ball bearings, Pin remover - Tuning Parts (japantackle.com)

 

List By Size - HEDGEHOG STUDIO (hedgehog-studio.co.jp)

[jimmyjoe]

On 8/27/2021 at 10:34 PM, Bankc said:

On a spinning reel, the spool doesn't spin (except for drag) so new bearings won't add distance to your cast.  They may make reeling more smooth if there's something wrong with your old bearings.  But mostly the smoothness of the reel is a result of the rigidity and precision of the frame and internal parts.  So if you have super high quality bearings, but the bearings aren't precisely aligned by the frame or the gears don't perfectly meshed, it's still going to retrieve rough.  

 

So bearings do matter.  But they're just one part of the equation.  And chances are if the reel manufacturer spent the time and money to ensure the precision and quality of the rest of the reel, then they probably used high quality bearings too.  And if they used cheap bearings, they probably didn't build the rest of the reel to the tolerances necessary to take advantage of higher quality bearings.  

 

   This is the best and clearest explanation of the issue in the fewest words that I can imagine. Thank you, @Bankc !           jj

 

p.s. - one of my two first spinning reels was a Penn. ***. None. Smooth as could be.