Feeling the pressure

[Chris Catignani]

This not an opinion piece, but I'm just recount a chain of events that happened a few years back regarding the OP.

 

First a little back story:

The TWRA had been conducting research into the catch and release program from local tournaments. This research involved actual RF fish tagging.

This at the time had only been done in Canada and the results there were fantastic survival rates. The results in Tennessee were eye-popping. A vast majority of fish over 5 lbs turned up dead when the water temp was above 70 degrees. I don't think anyone expect that...but fact is fact. In God we trust all others bring data.

 

I was contacted by Bobby Wilson (then director of fisheries) to be part of a think tank and have a discussion about tournaments. A side from the fish survival problem...there were other issues about ramp access and overcrowding. This group of people were avid fishermen, guides and tournament directors.

 

One thing that came up was to make ramps wider and make more parking. This was thought of as a good idea by everyone.

When it came to the fish survival rate, I remember suggesting to one of the East Tennessee tournament directors that all the live wells should have a recycle/pump out/aerator pump. I stated a white paper from a Texas group on how this really increased the survival rate. I was told that not everyone has that much money to modify there live wells. I said, "Its a $20 pump!".

I could see then that any kind of suggestions were not going to be seen in any kind of good light.

 

One solution that got a little traction was to have tournaments over X amount of boats register that tournament with the state. With that data...people could log in and see what lake may be crowded and what ramp may be crowded.

The state was going to do this and had a dev team working on the code.

 

Then things got ugly. One of the members of the group was local guide Jim Duckwotrh. He started getting threatening messages left on windshield at the ramps. The group disbanded and that was the end of that.

[Nitrofreak]

Sorry for not replying sooner peeps, as mentioned to A-Jay I am in the process of remodeling my mother-in-laws kitchen, it was a late night and some of the posts in which I had posted and quoted are incomplete.

 

I have read them all, thank you guys for your input, it’s really interesting as well as educational as usual from the BR peeps.

 

The point is defiantly made that across the country we have seen a rise in numbers, which I too am glad to see more and more getting out and enjoying the outdoors away from their personal electronic devices, (you know, except in cases of which we want to reply to a certain topic ?) it would be interesting data to know the actual percentage of first time anglers during this rise and just how much of an affect, if any, it actually has had on fishing our favorite waters.

 

In my case, what I have noticed since starting this thread is that on my home lake it is the shallow water anglers in which seem to be the ones whom are suggesting that the fishing is harsher than usual, I say this because I took the opportunity to call on roughly 50 of my fellow anglers that fish strictly shallow and 10 who I know with certainty have a tendency to fish both deep and shallow, maybe there is a point in there somewhere that can be made for that scenario in which they feel like they are always fishing behind someone else in that shallow water instance.

 

Tidal waters like here in Virginia or relatively shallow waters as in Florida’s case in which they are expansive while seemingly having the increased pressure from numbers of anglers on the water have a key factor in which it seems to be experience, or, time on the water invested in order to have a greater chance at success, quite possibly we could take or incorporate a lesson from those types of fisheries and apply some of that knowledge and experience to our reservoir experiences to enhance our chances of success, through my conversations with my friends who do fish both it does make sense since they are the more successful group when it comes to cashing checks.

 

On a side note: I do find it odd this season that my tournament partner and I have caught more dink’s this season than in past, we have one 5.95 to our credit and the rest of our limits have all been sub par numbers in which we have barely broken the double digit barrier, several others being in the single digit ranges, with the one exception being the Potomac River here in Virginia, which in turn is also odd because we were fishing our tournament at the same time MLF was fishing theirs, we were fishing close to and around the likes of Casey Ashley all weekend and still managed a pretty decent bag each day, I defiantly agree with a lot of you in that it’s been a weird fishing season as with some suggest, I can not quite put my finger on it either but something just seems a little off in my opinion.

 

Again guys, thanks so much for your thoughts and replies.

[WRB]

The Ebbs and Flows of bass populations is tied to successful recruitment during the spawn cycles of the fishery. 

I like to call this boom & bust cycles every bass fishery experiences. Lots of folks like to take credit for the boom cycle and point finger during bust cycles.

Increased Recreational boating has little affect on catching bass. Increased Tournament fishing on smaller bodies of water does impact the bass population even with Catch & Release being practiced. A small percentage of bass caught and released don’t survive. The recreation bass fishing tend to be influenced by tournament bass angler success. Combine all fishing there is increased fishing pressure that kills more adult size bass. 

Population density of the bass size preferred by anglers is impacted. 

Recruitment of baby bass growing up to become adults to replace this ovulation is the key to successful bass fishing.  

Basing success on big bass, the smallest population in any lake doesn’t define good bass fishery, it defines a good trophy bass fishery.

Tom

[slonezp]

I want to add on to @WRB changing water levels on river systems has a huge impact on the spawn. Water that's too low or too high in the spring is going to have a negative impact. This is an impact that you won't notice for a few years. It is also something that I think is more well know in the north where our water is colder and the "growing" season for fish is limited. If there is a poor spawn because of flooding or drought this year, the impact to the fisherman won't be noticed for 4 or 5 years. 

[Nitrofreak]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

The Ebbs and Flows of bass populations is tied to successful recruitment during the spawn cycles of the fishery. 

I like to call this boom & bust cycles every bass fishery experiences. Lots of folks like to take credit for the boom cycle and point finger during bust cycles.

Increased Recreational boating has little affect on catching bass. Increased Tournament fishing on smaller bodies of water does impact the bass population even with Catch & Release being practiced. A small percentage of bass caught and released don’t survive. The recreation bass fishing tend to be influenced by tournament bass angler success. Combine all fishing there is increased fishing pressure that kills more adult size bass. 

Population density of the bass size preferred by anglers is impacted. 

Recruitment of baby bass growing up to become adults to replace this ovulation is the key to successful bass fishing.  

Basing success on big bass, the smallest population in any lake doesn’t define good bass fishery, it defines a good trophy bass fishery.

Tom

That is a great way to put it Tom, Thanks for that.

3 minutes ago, slonezp said:

I want to add on to @WRB changing water levels on river systems has a huge impact on the spawn. Water that's too low or too high in the spring is going to have a negative impact. This is an impact that you won't notice for a few years. It is also something that I think is more well know in the north where our water is colder and the "growing" season for fish is limited. If there is a poor spawn because of flooding or drought this year, the impact to the fisherman won't be noticed for 4 or 5 years. 

So it’s possibly a cycle ?

 

If so then does that mean we could possibly see the next couple/ few years being somewhat the same?

[slonezp]

8 minutes ago, Nitrofreak said:

 

So it’s possibly a cycle ?

 

If so then does that mean we could possibly see the next couple/ few years being somewhat the same?

The animal kingdom doesn't have the ability to reason. They just "do". If things aren't just right, they may not spawn and the females eggs will just get absorbed back into her body. No different than if she hasn't found a suitable male. 

 

There are "year class" fluctuations. This is really followed in the walleye and trout world and is 100% related to water levels. I'll use Lake Michigan salmonid populations, trout in particular, as an example. I can use Door County Wisconsin as an example that I am familiar with. There was a steady decline of the water levels on the Great Lakes for 20 years. Creeks used for spawning dried up. King salmon are not native to the Great Lakes lost their spawning areas. Brown trout, brook trout, and rainbow trout, which are native to the Great lakes lost their spawning areas. The DNR supplemented the spawn for many years and while the populations were sustained, the sole tributary was in Strawberry Creek where the DNR hatchery is. Water levels have been on the rise the last 2 years. The DNR has been dumping fish in the recently filled tributaries to attempt to bring back a natural spawn. 

[TnRiver46]

10 hours ago, KatDawg said:

This not an opinion piece, but I'm just recount a chain of events that happened a few years back regarding the OP.

 

First a little back story:

The TWRA had been conducting research into the catch and release program from local tournaments. This research involved actual RF fish tagging.

This at the time had only been done in Canada and the results there were fantastic survival rates. The results in Tennessee were eye-popping. A vast majority of fish over 5 lbs turned up dead when the water temp was above 70 degrees. I don't think anyone expect that...but fact is fact. In God we trust all others bring data.

 

I was contacted by Bobby Wilson (then director of fisheries) to be part of a think tank and have a discussion about tournaments. A side from the fish survival problem...there were other issues about ramp access and overcrowding. This group of people were avid fishermen, guides and tournament directors.

 

One thing that came up was to make ramps wider and make more parking. This was thought of as a good idea by everyone.

When it came to the fish survival rate, I remember suggesting to one of the East Tennessee tournament directors that all the live wells should have a recycle/pump out/aerator pump. I stated a white paper from a Texas group on how this really increased the survival rate. I was told that not everyone has that much money to modify there live wells. I said, "Its a $20 pump!".

I could see then that any kind of suggestions were not going to be seen in any kind of good light.

 

One solution that got a little traction was to have tournaments over X amount of boats register that tournament with the state. With that data...people could log in and see what lake may be crowded and what ramp may be crowded.

The state was going to do this and had a dev team working on the code.

 

Then things got ugly. One of the members of the group was local guide Jim Duckwotrh. He started getting threatening messages left on windshield at the ramps. The group disbanded and that was the end of that.

Well me and you know some of the same people it appears!!! 
 

fishing is all good here, lots of pressure and a moron like me can usually catch a nice smallie about any day of the year if you give me 2-3 hours 

[Nitrofreak]

17 minutes ago, slonezp said:

The animal kingdom doesn't have the ability to reason. They just "do". If things aren't just right, they may not spawn and the females eggs will just get absorbed back into her body. No different than if she hasn't found a suitable male. 

 

There are "year class" fluctuations. This is really followed in the walleye and trout world and is 100% related to water levels. I'll use Lake Michigan salmonid populations, trout in particular, as an example. I can use Door County Wisconsin as an example that I am familiar with. There was a steady decline of the water levels on the Great Lakes for 20 years. Creeks used for spawning dried up. King salmon are not native to the Great Lakes lost their spawning areas. Brown trout, brook trout, and rainbow trout, which are native to the Great lakes lost their spawning areas. The DNR supplemented the spawn for many years and while the populations were sustained, the sole tributary was in Strawberry Creek where the DNR hatchery is. Water levels have been on the rise the last 2 years. The DNR has been dumping fish in the recently filled tributaries to attempt to bring back a natural spawn. 

Makes sense and I hope that works out, we haven’t had anything remotely close to that in the last decade and a half maybe, the more I read yours and Toms post the more it may just be something to that nature, I wonder if the same could be said for a region of lakes and not just singular bodies of water?
 

The tournaments here aren’t the 100+ boat tourneys, maybe 30 at best although our veterans tournaments and special event tournaments do reach that mark but they are once a year type events, I just don’t see it as harmful as some make it out to be, I have struggled there myself even though I know the lake well enough to have success but in the same breath I have not frequented the lake as I should and lost touch with what the fish are doing, I think the same could be said for a lot of those in which I spoke with although I did not pose the question to them.

[slonezp]

5 minutes ago, Nitrofreak said:

Makes sense and I hope that works out, we haven’t had anything remotely close to that in the last decade and a half maybe, the more I read yours and Toms post the more it may just be something to that nature, I wonder if the same could be said for a region of lakes and not just singular bodies of water?
 

The tournaments here aren’t the 100+ boat tourneys, maybe 30 at best although our veterans tournaments and special event tournaments do reach that mark but they are once a year type events, I just don’t see it as harmful as some make it out to be, I have struggled there myself even though I know the lake well enough to have success but in the same breath I have not frequented the lake as I should and lost touch with what the fish are doing, I think the same could be said for a lot of those in which I spoke with although I did not pose the question to them.

I believe mother nature has more impact on a fishery than any catch and release fisherman could ever have. 

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, slonezp said:

I want to add on to @WRB changing water levels on river systems has a huge impact on the spawn. Water that's too low or too high in the spring is going to have a negative impact. This is an impact that you won't notice for a few years. It is also something that I think is more well know in the north where our water is colder and the "growing" season for fish is limited. If there is a poor spawn because of flooding or drought this year, the impact to the fisherman won't be noticed for 4 or 5 years. 

Most people can’t remember back six months, Much less for five years

[slonezp]

3 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Most people can’t remember back six months, Much less for five years

I agree with you, but facts are facts. The poor spawn this year has an impact on the future. 

[TnRiver46]

22 minutes ago, slonezp said:

I agree with you, but facts are facts. The poor spawn this year has an impact on the future. 

Absolutely. But by the time a bad spawn starts showing effects, most people have come up with some new excuses and don’t even remember the bad spawn (unless of course it pops up in their 24 hour newscycle feed)

[PressuredFishing]

On 8/21/2021 at 5:52 AM, Nitrofreak said:

I was having a conversation today with a fellow angler about my home lake and how he felt it has changed over the last few years, the conversation turned to the amount of “pressure” the lake sees with all of it’s tournaments as well as the growth of its popularity with pleasure boating, then I had seen a sort of blog from Jacob Wheeler discussing the same topic so it led me to posting something about pressure and the changes that may or may not come with it.

 

I admit that my home lake has defiantly suffered some damage from anglers, in part mostly from word of mouth, that being said, the lake which is roughly 10,000 acres does see a crap ton of action, however, I personally am not one to buy into (in it’s entirety) purely the fault of fishing/boating pressure, in my opinion I am more inclined to research other variables that contribute to the lack of active fish that are willing to chance a strike at ones offering, such as but not limited to the amount of available natural forage for example. 

 

The pro side of angling on the other hand brings with it nation wide coverage, yes it does give away “spots” or “areas” not previously known by all which in turn creates added pressure, in Jacobs blog it seemed as if he was suggesting that the added pressure was in part to blame on the media coverage and why the fish catching has taken a significant hit.
 

On the more popular bodies of water like a Chickamauga or other big time lakes I can see the voice for concern in Jacobs case or at the very least the reasoning for their discussions, It’s a ton of work these guys put in having their own “secret” places, I get it, when it comes to pressure though I am left with the thought of, do these spots really get hit all that hard by others who may or may not know how to fish for them, is it really doing so much damage that it causes the fish to move from the areas? Or develop a case of lock jaw from the wide spectrum of lures being thrown about? 

 

My conversation went in a bit of a different direction, in my area of the country it has not truly seen a harsh enough winter for several years to kill off any significant amount of forage, the added amount of pleasure boating on my home water has without a doubt made it significantly more difficult to safely fish a lot of the offshore areas which in turn does tend to make fishing much more patience/safety oriented, and maybe that was the reason for both the conversation I had with my friend and the thought process from Jacob.

 

With the amount of technology out there today, information is going to be used to ones advantage, especially by those who tend to skip over the hard work ethic, the additional boating traffic is or at least can be in part to blame in some ways, I am more the opposite frame of mind in which I like to look at the total picture and try to grasp what’s really happening under the surface, thermoclines, amount of forage, water conditions and so on, I tend to learn much more being in a more open frame of mind, I don’t think it is simply due to one single aspect or another that changes the fishery, the singular aspect at least to me would have to be in the way we fish it.

I have grown up on the west coast, and It actually took me two years of learning how to fish for bass  (coming from only trout) to actually catch a bass, (a quarter pounder) I learned how to fish pressured waters and growing up I never didnt fish non-pressured waters. It can be considered a blessing because while I cant just toss a texas rig out, hop it around for an hour, and get bit, or burn spinnerbaits around and get bit, I have learned how to catch them on these methods in pressured waters in good weather conditions, and how to catch them on your average day with more finesse stuff and even big stuff. Its really hard to explain because pressured fishing is all ive known, hence the name but, its a whole another ball game compared to standard midwest bassin and even most of the country. the best thing I can urge to you is, go to the extreme! if you want to catch these pressured bass, now is the time more than ever to worry about the smallest things. and try so many different types of finesse lures. Try a ned rig, try a dropshot, try a child rig, try a neko rig, try a wacky rig, try a finesse Trig, change the colors depending on water clarity, if its gen clear and u got the right color, change the sparkle, if its murky and you got a good color, add chartruse streaks, I am a big believer in color, I was bed fishing a 4lber for 3 hours with different baits and she showed no intrest, I added a chartruse tail to the exact same worm I was throwing at it with for the past hour and it bit the worm as soon as it hit the bed. Small things DONT matter in non pressured water, but make the world of a difference in these pressured bass. Try colors that look super wierd but realistic, so for instance I love this color called super violet disco by ZOOM, its super goofy and is basicially clear with sparkles but bass havent seen it and they cant get a good look at it so they hammer it. by the same token, go big! west coast bass are known to hit big glidebaits and swimbaits and im sure they will hit them there, but you dont have to go to a big 8 inch huddleston, if your bass get only 4lbs throw 5 inch boot tail on bottom and crawl, people dont have the patience to throw these things for hours but they pay off. If you dont like swimbaits throw a big worm. if bass only see 5 inch soft plastics that means they dont see anything smaller, but by the same token they dont see anything larger, yknow? Finally dont rule out moving baits, if the weather conditions are right, throw your moving baits, they do get bit, just fish them really wierdly and you will get bit, for instance, dont just cast and wind, pop your swimbait up 10 feet really quickly and let it fall back down 10 ft, or on your jerkbaits rip super fast and then super slow, ive even had a ton of luck just bringing in a walking bait without even walking it, just bring it in as fast as you can for a second and kill it, bring it in super fast and kill it. just do stupid stuff that nobody else would do and it works. baitfish are not predictible, so your lures shouldnt be either. hope this helps, its a long rant I know but, they are catchable

[Nitrofreak]

3 hours ago, PressuredFishing said:

I have grown up on the west coast, and It actually took me two years of learning how to fish for bass  (coming from only trout) to actually catch a bass, (a quarter pounder) I learned how to fish pressured waters and growing up I never didnt fish non-pressured waters. It can be considered a blessing because while I cant just toss a texas rig out, hop it around for an hour, and get bit, or burn spinnerbaits around and get bit, I have learned how to catch them on these methods in pressured waters in good weather conditions, and how to catch them on your average day with more finesse stuff and even big stuff. Its really hard to explain because pressured fishing is all ive known, hence the name but, its a whole another ball game compared to standard midwest bassin and even most of the country. the best thing I can urge to you is, go to the extreme! if you want to catch these pressured bass, now is the time more than ever to worry about the smallest things. and try so many different types of finesse lures. Try a ned rig, try a dropshot, try a child rig, try a neko rig, try a wacky rig, try a finesse Trig, change the colors depending on water clarity, if its gen clear and u got the right color, change the sparkle, if its murky and you got a good color, add chartruse streaks, I am a big believer in color, I was bed fishing a 4lber for 3 hours with different baits and she showed no intrest, I added a chartruse tail to the exact same worm I was throwing at it with for the past hour and it bit the worm as soon as it hit the bed. Small things DONT matter in non pressured water, but make the world of a difference in these pressured bass. Try colors that look super wierd but realistic, so for instance I love this color called super violet disco by ZOOM, its super goofy and is basicially clear with sparkles but bass havent seen it and they cant get a good look at it so they hammer it. by the same token, go big! west coast bass are known to hit big glidebaits and swimbaits and im sure they will hit them there, but you dont have to go to a big 8 inch huddleston, if your bass get only 4lbs throw 5 inch boot tail on bottom and crawl, people dont have the patience to throw these things for hours but they pay off. If you dont like swimbaits throw a big worm. if bass only see 5 inch soft plastics that means they dont see anything smaller, but by the same token they dont see anything larger, yknow? Finally dont rule out moving baits, if the weather conditions are right, throw your moving baits, they do get bit, just fish them really wierdly and you will get bit, for instance, dont just cast and wind, pop your swimbait up 10 feet really quickly and let it fall back down 10 ft, or on your jerkbaits rip super fast and then super slow, ive even had a ton of luck just bringing in a walking bait without even walking it, just bring it in as fast as you can for a second and kill it, bring it in super fast and kill it. just do stupid stuff that nobody else would do and it works. baitfish are not predictible, so your lures shouldnt be either. hope this helps, its a long rant I know but, they are catchable

There is a lake here on the East coast named Fredrick Lake or Lake Fredrick I cant remember which but, if one wishes to discuss “Fishing Pressure” then this would be an absolute prime candidate for such a discussion, this place is known for its double digit possibilities and if I didn’t know any better I think the whole darn state of Virginia comes here on any given day.

 

I have had success on this body of water but nothing over 5 pounds... yet.

 

I have gone to the extremes with large swim baits, glide baits, as well as the other side of the spectrum, the drop shot is something I am extremely comfortable fishing.

 

I am in no way shape or form denying that fishing pressure does not exist but I am convinced that there is a way to overcome said pressure by doing what others like yourself have spoken on, by the way, that pictured bait is one of my favorites ?

 

I think that if I can put it in a picture, I would lean more toward the “patience” side of fault, if I had to pick a word to describe what I see as fault by anglers when it comes to situations as such then that would be it, I think we have a tendency to fish too fast or not take the time to try and understand what is actually happening and adapt as we should.

 

I am no expert on the matter hence the reason for the post, there is so much knowledge in what you guys put out there for us that it helps incredibly well when we are faced with situations on the water, maybe it is a bust sort of season, that could explain a ton of things that has happened this season, maybe it is something I need to change or maybe it is something I do not, I know with certainty that we have been around the right areas to do so much better than what my partner and I have shown, I believe we just missed out on some of the factors in those areas by just a touch but it wasn’t because of pressure in my honest opinion, it was something else we missed.

 

Your input is valued my friend and I thank you for taking the time to put your thoughts into words, it is something I will defiantly take with me on my next outing.

[PressuredFishing]

16 minutes ago, Nitrofreak said:

There is a lake here on the East coast named Fredrick Lake or Lake Fredrick I cant remember which but, if one wishes to discuss “Fishing Pressure” then this would be an absolute prime candidate for such a discussion, this place is known for its double digit possibilities and if I didn’t know any better I think the whole darn state of Virginia comes here on any given day.

 

I have had success on this body of water but nothing over 5 pounds... yet.

 

I have gone to the extremes with large swim baits, glide baits, as well as the other side of the spectrum, the drop shot is something I am extremely comfortable fishing.

 

I am in no way shape or form denying that fishing pressure does not exist but I am convinced that there is a way to overcome said pressure by doing what others like yourself have spoken on, by the way, that pictured bait is one of my favorites ?

 

I think that if I can put it in a picture, I would lean more toward the “patience” side of fault, if I had to pick a word to describe what I see as fault by anglers when it comes to situations as such then that would be it, I think we have a tendency to fish too fast or not take the time to try and understand what is actually happening and adapt as we should.

 

I am no expert on the matter hence the reason for the post, there is so much knowledge in what you guys put out there for us that it helps incredibly well when we are faced with situations on the water, maybe it is a bust sort of season, that could explain a ton of things that has happened this season, maybe it is something I need to change or maybe it is something I do not, I know with certainty that we have been around the right areas to do so much better than what my partner and I have shown, I believe we just missed out on some of the factors in those areas by just a touch but it wasn’t because of pressure in my honest opinion, it was something else we missed.

 

Your input is valued my friend and I thank you for taking the time to put your thoughts into words, it is something I will defiantly take with me on my next outing.

no problem brother, Patience and slowing down is a big one as well, fishing slower on slow days or fishing over the same spot longer with moving baits is key, right on!