Fly fishing for trout and leader size?

[PressuredFishing]

So I went fly fishing for trout earlier this year, and will be going soon in about a week. I feel have become quite proficient at it after practicing for a few years, but I have found one major wall that I keep hitting and that is, spooky low water trout in creeks, rivers, and calm calm lake waters. So Its not like my body or rod is the thing that scares them but the presentation, what I mean by that is the slapping of the leader onto the water. I am using that general rule of thumb by dividing by 3 or 4 per the size of hook, but maybe should I go up from 4x to 5x if the fish are super spooky even if the fly is a little big/heavy for that diameter?  The fish just really seem to not like the leader, and in deeper water or faster moving water its not an issue but for low+slow+gen clear  water its been all too noticeable.  I  just dont know if it would be too hard to cast the fly with a super thin material. any other ideas would be lovley to hear. I have tried different flies as well but it seems they will take most nymphs in the afternoon and most dries in the evenings if its a soft enough presentation. Thanks for everyones time and God Bless!

[bigbassin']

If your mostly fishing nymphs, 5x should not be a problem.

 

I’m no means a trout expert, but I typically used 5x or 6x on a dry/dropper or double nymph rig w/ a strike indicator. A bead head Wooly bugger was typically one of my “nymphs”.

 

How far you need to cast will be a factor, most of my fishing was done on creeks with roll cast. I’d say ~45’ is the furthest I ever casted with light leader. I think I could of casted that setup out to 50-55’ if needed, you definitely start losing feel at that distance.

[NHBull]

You sound like me......

 

5x

[desmobob]

Don't be afraid to go smaller and longer on your tippet (and entire leader).  It might not turn over as nicely as a conventionally-sized set-up, but if you're spooking fish, it will help.

 

Heck... modern 5x tippet is usually from 3.5 to 4 lb. test.  Don't be shy.

[bulldog1935]

I take advantage of welded loops on my fly lines, or add them to lines without.  

I swap leaders to fish between dries and nymphs.  

For dries, I fish tapered nylon without a tippet knot, and will go to 6x for presentation. 

 

Literally for decades I've fished Beartooth/H&H braided butt leaders for nymphs and my first love of swinging wet flies. I know all the good BWO riffles/chutes/pocketwater on our tailwater, and may bust a long way to get there - this is Mad Rock (named by the float guides).  

The Beartooth/H&H leaders are knotted fluorocarbon below the braided butt.  You charge the braided butt with mucilin, and it's all the strike indicator you need.  When it swamps, you wring it out with a piece of chamois.  The float of the leader butt also keeps your fly line tip from swamping.  

Of course its easy to swap tippet size, dictated by the size of the hook eye.  

Swimming BWO on size 18 scud hook will let me fish 4x

 

 Like all tailwaters, tiny midges make up 70% of the biomass.  Size 22 is the smallest hook eye that will take 5x tippet.  Unless you find first-light spinners or that great afternoon dry fly hatch, tiny midges are the only thing that works in slower, deeper runs.  

If you're forced to size 24, has to be 6x.  

 

A trick I learned from Frank Smethurst when we filmed TU On the Rise, for attractor with tiny midge dropper, take a quilting needle and run an Otter's milking egg up the leader, slide up a bare size 10 egg hook, tie your dropper tippet with a triple surgeon's knot.  My PB buck just above took the size 22 midge.  The same day in a deep chute, this little girl took the egg - she's on the bare hook, and the egg slid up to my split shot.  

Bottom, center you can see the size 22 midge dropper.  

At the end of the day, when I'm done with this complex rig, I'll snip it above the split shot, and tie surgeon's loops in both sides.  The rig goes into a leader wallet, and I loop it on next time out.  

 

Frank has to catch trout on camera every week.  His description of Otter's milking egg - "when you absolutely, positively have to catch a fish right now"

Another thing Frank taught Jimbo and me in 3 days of filming - skittering a sofa pillow to work trout into a feeding frenzy.  

In this last pool, we had them impaling themselves on anything, I handed my Thomas rod over to the cameraman, and he caught his first trout. Frank also called our big tailwater rainbows "Guadalupe steelhead"

me, Frank, and Jimbo

[PressuredFishing]

On 8/4/2021 at 4:37 AM, bulldog1935 said:

I take advantage of welded loops on my fly lines, or add them to lines without.  

I swap leaders to fish between dries and nymphs.  

For dries, I fish tapered nylon without a tippet knot, and will go to 6x for presentation. 

 

Literally for decades I've fished Beartooth/H&H braided butt leaders for nymphs and my first love of swinging wet flies. I know all the good BWO riffles/chutes/pocketwater on our tailwater, and may bust a long way to get there - this is Mad Rock (named by the float guides).  

The Beartooth/H&H leaders are knotted fluorocarbon below the braided butt.  You charge the braided butt with mucilin, and it's all the strike indicator you need.  When it swamps, you wring it out with a piece of chamois.  The float of the leader butt also keeps your fly line tip from swamping.  

Of course its easy to swap tippet size, dictated by the size of the hook eye.  

Swimming BWO on size 18 scud hook will let me fish 4x

 

 Like all tailwaters, tiny midges make up 70% of the biomass.  Size 22 is the smallest hook eye that will take 5x tippet.  Unless you find first-light spinners or that great afternoon dry fly hatch, tiny midges are the only thing that works in slower, deeper runs.  

If you're forced to size 24, has to be 6x.  

 

A trick I learned from Frank Smethurst when we filmed TU On the Rise, for attractor with tiny midge dropper, take a quilting needle and run an Otter's milking egg up the leader, slide up a bare size 10 egg hook, tie your dropper tippet with a triple surgeon's knot.  My PB buck just above took the size 22 midge.  The same day in a deep chute, this little girl took the egg - she's on the bare hook, and the egg slid up to my split shot.  

Bottom, center you can see the size 22 midge dropper.  

At the end of the day, when I'm done with this complex rig, I'll snip it above the split shot, and tie surgeon's loops in both sides.  The rig goes into a leader wallet, and I loop it on next time out.  

 

Frank has to catch trout on camera every week.  His description of Otter's milking egg - "when you absolutely, positively have to catch a fish right now"

Another thing Frank taught Jimbo and me in 3 days of filming - skittering a sofa pillow to work trout into a feeding frenzy.  

In this last pool, we had them impaling themselves on anything, I handed my Thomas rod over to the cameraman, and he caught his first trout. Frank also called our big tailwater rainbows "Guadalupe steelhead"

me, Frank, and Jimbo

 

On 8/4/2021 at 3:48 AM, desmobob said:

Don't be afraid to go smaller and longer on your tippet (and entire leader).  It might not turn over as nicely as a conventionally-sized set-up, but if you're spooking fish, it will help.

 

Heck... modern 5x tippet is usually from 3.5 to 4 lb. test.  Don't be shy.

 

On 8/4/2021 at 3:17 AM, bigbassin' said:

If your mostly fishing nymphs, 5x should not be a problem.

 

I’m no means a trout expert, but I typically used 5x or 6x on a dry/dropper or double nymph rig w/ a strike indicator. A bead head Wooly bugger was typically one of my “nymphs”.

 

How far you need to cast will be a factor, most of my fishing was done on creeks with roll cast. I’d say ~45’ is the furthest I ever casted with light leader. I think I could of casted that setup out to 50-55’ if needed, you definitely start losing feel at that distance.

 

On 8/4/2021 at 3:19 AM, NHBull said:

You sound like me......

 

5x

 

On 8/4/2021 at 3:17 AM, bigbassin' said:

If your mostly fishing nymphs, 5x should not be a problem.

 

I’m no means a trout expert, but I typically used 5x or 6x on a dry/dropper or double nymph rig w/ a strike indicator. A bead head Wooly bugger was typically one of my “nymphs”.

 

How far you need to cast will be a factor, most of my fishing was done on creeks with roll cast. I’d say ~45’ is the furthest I ever casted with light leader. I think I could of casted that setup out to 50-55’ if needed, you definitely start losing feel at that distance.

Thankyou so much everyone!!!! yall are going to help me out so much, Heading out tomorrow and am excited to try all these techniques this upcoming week! thanks guys!!!