Reel gear ratio for punching veggies

[RenzokukenFisher]

So recently I learned higher gear ratio reels such as the ones in the 8:1+ range can take up line very quickly but they begin to lose cranking power the higher the ratio. This made me wonder if a 7:1 gear ratio would work better than an 8:1 for punching and getting fish out of tangled salad. On the other hand maybe its the rods job to get thw fish out and not the reel, Im new to this technique.

[LrgmouthShad]

I’d be curious to hear people’s opinion on this too. Torque or cranking power is a reason I like slower reels

[fishballer06]

I look at it this way. I'm usually not going to have much line out at all whenever doing this technique. Most of the time, 40-60 feet at most, and majority of the time 15-30 feet out. 

 

That being said, your rod needs to be able to handle the weight of what you're punching/flipping with and the weight of a big fish on short line in the heavy vegetation. So a good, stout rod is going to do the majority of the work and heavy lifting. Your reel, in all honesty, is only going to need you to take a few cranks to get that fish into the boat. 

 

So the benefit of having a higher gear ratio is being able to get that bait back to you quicker and allowing you to make another flip/punch quicker. All that being said, I've never noticed a difference in power from my 8:1 Daiwa's and Shimano's  compared to the 7:1 counterparts. So give me a faster reel and the opportunity to put my bait in front of more fish. 

[TnRiver46]

Ironically I had a video playing in the background this morning while I was piddling around the house and it was tacticalbassin talking specifics on punching. He recommended the faster 8 to 1 ratio because of all the pitching and constant reeling in to re pitch 

[keagbassr]

I was using  a 7 had an accident with that reel and now use an 8. I dont notice any difference at all. The comment above about having 30-60ft of line out does have me a bit confused as most of my punch fish are caught in 5-8 ft. Of water, some shallower, some as deep as 10-12 ft. But even then i would have to make a fairly long pitch in terms of punching to have even 20 ft. Of line out as for me punching is a vertical presentation.

[fishballer06]

8 minutes ago, keagbassr said:

The comment above about having 30-60ft of line out does have me a bit confused as most of my punch fish are caught in 5-8 ft. Of water, some shallower, some as deep as 10-12 ft. But even then i would have to make a fairly long pitch in terms of punching to have even 20 ft. Of line out as for me punching is a vertical presentation.

You're right, it is basically a vertical presentation. Hence why we never flip/punch more than maybe 50 feet from the boat (plus whatever depth the water may be). Most often, I'm only flipping out 20 feet at most from the boat. Any further than that and I will just be waiting until I can get the boat closer to my target. 

[keagbassr]

28 minutes ago, fishballer06 said:

You're right, it is basically a vertical presentation. Hence why we never flip/punch more than maybe 50 feet from the boat (plus whatever depth the water may be). Most often, I'm only flipping out 20 feet at most from the boat. Any further than that and I will just be waiting until I can get the boat closer to my target. 

50 ft. Is still alot of line out for punching. I think we're  intermingling pitching and punching. When punching I personally like my line to enter the water between 6in. And at most no more than 3-4 ft. Beyond to where my rod tip is above the water.

[Chris at Tech]

I use a Daiwa SV103 in the 7.9:1 ratio.  I just started with this sort of close combat fishing this year, but I believe picking up line as fast as possible after being bit is a critical part of preventing the fish from getting too far down into the junk.

[GTN-NY]

5 hours ago, fishballer06 said:

I look at it this way. I'm usually not going to have much line out at all whenever doing this technique. Most of the time, 40-60 feet at most, and majority of the time 15-30 feet out. 

 

That being said, your rod needs to be able to handle the weight of what you're punching/flipping with and the weight of a big fish on short line in the heavy vegetation. So a good, stout rod is going to do the majority of the work and heavy lifting. Your reel, in all honesty, is only going to need you to take a few cranks to get that fish into the boat. 

 

So the benefit of having a higher gear ratio is being able to get that bait back to you quicker and allowing you to make another flip/punch quicker. All that being said, I've never noticed a difference in power from my 8:1 Daiwa's and Shimano's  compared to the 7:1 counterparts. So give me a faster reel and the opportunity to put my bait in front of more fish. 

^^^^^^^^^
What he said!

I used to use a 5.? because I didn’t think it really mattered. After reading more here it makes total sense to have faster speed because during a day of punching weeds you do way more reeling in without a fish on than you do with a fish on

[HaydenS]

You might want the 8.1:1+ when a heavy punching weight and a big flippin hook come flying back at you at 100mph...

 

It picks up line faster, which allows you to make more flips a day.  Lets you stay with the fish when they are thrashing around, so you can keep pressure in the heavy mats.

[Bluebasser86]

I use an 8.1 Helios TCS on my punching rod. You shouldn't be moving fish with the reel when you're punching, that's the rods job. The reel just takes up line to make the next flip/pitch. The more flips/pitches I can make, the better the chance I put it in front of a fish. A faster reel lets me retrieve faster when I'm done with a cast and get my bait back out faster, making more presentations at the end of the day. 

[Bankbeater]

For punching I like a 6.3 reel and a heavy rod.  A lot of the time when I get a fish hooked underneath a weed mat I'll be reeling in 3 pounds of fish, and 5 pounds of weeds.  When this happens the bass can't fight since it's weighted down with the vegetation.

For flipping and pitching I want a faster reel.  If I don't get a bite in the strike zone right away I reel in and pitch to a new location.

[Skunkmaster-k]

I have been using a 10:1 , and it works good for pitching, but will wear my wrist out for just about anything else. It’s kind of a one trick pony. 

[Catt]

IDK a lot going on here ?

 

Flipping-n-pitching-n-punching I wanna stay as near vertical as possible. 50-60' of line out! Ya talking 20 yards of line in heavily matted vegetation, ya ain't winning that fight.

 

I shouldn't be moving line with my reel even when reeling in to make another "cast". Just like flipping, I flip it out there with my rod & pull it back with my rod, not much reeling involved.

 

Dumb Cajun's opinion ?

[Captain Phil]

7 minutes ago, Catt said:

IDK a lot going on here ?

 

Flipping-n-pitching-n-punching I wanna stay as near vertical as possible. 50-60' of line out! Ya talking 20 yards of line in heavily matted vegetation, ya ain't winning that fight.

 

I shouldn't be moving line with my reel even when reeling in to make another "cast". Just like flipping, I flip it out there with my rod & pull it back with my rod, not much reeling involved.

 

Dumb Cajun's opinion ?

 

Flipping, pitching or punching as you call it, is about all I do these days.   Florida bass waters are shallow, so I hardly ever use the reel as I can reach most of the pockets I need to with a near vertical presentation.  It is often necessary to take up slack line when a fish hits.  I can see how a faster reel would make this a little easier.  It's such a small amount of line that I don't think it would make much difference.  In this type of fishing, the rod does most of the work. 

[Catt]

25 minutes ago, Captain Phil said:

Florida bass waters are shallow

 

I've spent some time fishing the Ocala/Inverness area, Florida waters are pretty much identical to southwest Louisiana, our waters are generally shallower.

 

The farther your presentation is away from vertical the less the odds are of landing that bass. 

[Mike L]

OP
Not much more to add, 
Just don’t over think it. 

 

 

 

 

 

Mike

[NoShoes]

@Catt. @Captain Phil

 

When y’all are doing yalls punching, are you spending more time “pitching” like short casts or more “flipping” manually pulling the line down the rod with your off hand?

 

 

[WRB]

Fishing my home State of California we have very few opportunities to flip or punch in our sparse cover local lakes.

Up north at the Delta and Clear flipping, pitching, punching are primary presentations do to heavy cover and reed mats.

This is close short accurate cast using heavy braid and heavy power long rods to left the bass up out of cover. Reel gear ration isn’t a big concern imo with short casting techniques.

Tom

[Catt]

@NoShoes I'm doing both!

 

In my opinion the rod far out weighs the reel. Some of y'all talk about being able to move a 3# bass & 5# of grass. I'm talking 7-10#+ bass with the same 5# of grass.

 

What's needed in a reel is a rigid frame, solid gears, & a strong drag.

[Captain Phil]

3 hours ago, NoShoes said:

@Catt. @Captain Phil

 

When y’all are doing yalls punching, are you spending more time “pitching” like short casts or more “flipping” manually pulling the line down the rod with your off hand?

 

 

 

Personally, I do more flipping than pitching.  When I fish for money, I prefer team tournaments over draw tournaments.  Team tournaments are very popular in Florida.  We have one locally that has been going on every Sunday for as long as I can remember.  Some of the larger ones pay decent money.  In a team tournament, I flip from the front of the boat and my partner pitches from the rear.  Some days the fish are close to the edge and other days they are back in the cover.  By fishing this way, we cover a wider area.  

[NoShoes]

6 minutes ago, Catt said:

@NoShoes I'm doing both!

 

In my opinion the rod far out weighs the reel. Some of y'all talk about being able to move a 3# bass & 5# of grass. I'm talking 7-10#+ bass with the same 5# of grass.

 

What's needed in a reel is a rigid frame, solid gears, & a strong drag.

 

5 minutes ago, Captain Phil said:

 

Personally, I do more flipping than pitching.  When I fish for money, I prefer team tournaments over draw tournaments.  Team tournaments are very popular in Florida.  We have one locally that has been going on every Sunday for as long as I can remember.  Some of the larger ones pay decent money.  In a team tournament, I flip from the front of the boat and my partner pitches from the rear.  Some days the fish are close to the edge and other days they are back in the cover.  By fishing this way, we cover a wider area.  

I got some practice to do flipping it seems! Thanks again for the insight! 

[Captain Phil]

37 minutes ago, NoShoes said:

 

I got some practice to do flipping it seems! Thanks again for the insight! 

 

Here's a few tips. 

 

1. Let the lure fall on slack line under it's own weight.  It's the fall that triggers the strike.

 

2. Don't use too much weight.  You want just enough to get through the cover to the bottom.  My most common flipping weight is 5/16 oz.  I have used 3/4 oz. in heavy hydrilla.  I use a plastic sinker stop to peg the weight to the bait.

 

3. Always check the bait before you move it off the bottom.  It is common for a fish to have the bait and you don't know it until it's too late.

 

4.  The best way to learn the flipping technique is to leave your other rods at home.  Once you catch some fish you will have more confidence.

 

5.  Have patience.  Flipping is a big fish technique not a numbers technique.

 

Good Luck!

[NoShoes]

1 hour ago, Captain Phil said:

 

Here's a few tips. 

 

1. Let the lure fall on slack line under it's own weight.  It's the fall that triggers the strike.

 

2. Don't use too much weight.  You want just enough to get through the cover to the bottom.  My most common flipping weight is 5/16 oz.  I have used 3/4 oz. in heavy hydrilla.  I use a plastic sinker stop to peg the weight to the bait.

 

3. Always check the bait before you move it off the bottom.  It is common for a fish to have the bait and you don't know it until it's too late.

 

4.  The best way to learn the flipping technique is to leave your other rods at home.  Once you catch some fish you will have more confidence.

 

5.  Have patience.  Flipping is a big fish technique not a numbers technique.

 

Good Luck!

What conditions push you to punch over other techniques?

[Catt]

I highly suggest learning pitching over flipping, not every target is within flipping distance. 

 

I seldom "flip" anymore, I can short pitch as accurately as any flipper.