Rod guides

[JeffD]

Hey guys, I've seen a couple new rod builds that I have a question about. They were both bait casting rods and they had a mix of double foot guides along with single foot as you go toward the tip of the rod. What is the reasoning for that? 

[MickD]

Double foot for strength in the lower part of the rod where the stresses on the guides are the highest, and single foot for less weight on the top where the stresses are lower.  Works fine.  The lighter weight out on the rod makes the tip faster in responding from deflections and makes the rod more sensitive.  

[JeffD]

When using the 2 different types of guides, are most guys using a traditional tip top or a single foot guide for the tip?

[S Hovanec]

8 hours ago, JeffD said:

When using the 2 different types of guides, are most guys using a traditional tip top or a single foot guide for the tip?

 

Traditional tip top.  The only rods I've ever seen built with a single foot guide wrapped as a tip are float rods.

[JeffD]

Is there a rule of thumb for the number of guides for particular rod length? Also, what is the distance

(range) from the reel seat to the first guide on a bait casting set up?

[MN Fisher]

15 minutes ago, JeffD said:

Is there a rule of thumb for the number of guides for particular rod length?

Nope - I've got 7' casting rods that range from 8 guides (Diawa Aird-X and Laguna) to 11 guides (Dobyns Fury 705CB) and 7' spinning rods that range from 7guides (Okuma Reflexions) to 11 guides (Dobyns Fury 702SF)

 

[Jigfishn10]

When I was building I used to put the rod under load and played with the guide spacing so that they kept the line parallel to the rod. Not sure if this is still practiced or not, but I did like the way the rod performed. 

[MickD]

Rule of thumb is the length of the rod + 1 + the tiptop, so a 7 foot rod would have 8 guides and a tiptop.  I almost invariably use 9.  About 19-21 inches is right for the distance from the line guide of the reel to the first guide.  Guides are best located by using the two line stress test as shown on the Anglersresource.net web site.  I just did a rod for which the blank maker published a recipe for guide locations, and my locations after the first guide from the tip were quite different.  I'll trust my stress test.  There are differences of opinion about just about everything in rodbuilding, so develop your own experience using sound basic practices.  Lots of good tutorials on line, FlexCoat.com has a bunch.

[MickD]

Don't assume that the two line stress test is more complicated or harder than the one line test.  It is said to be more accurate and it's actually a lot easier than the one line test because the guides are  not taking the loading of the rod.  Therfore they don't have to be as tightely attached to the rod AND they may be moved without unloading the rod.  it is much easier using two lines.

 

[JeffD]

Do you guys see any problem with putting a new coat of 2 part epoxy on top of a 40 year old build. I'm sure back then I used a 1 part finish of some kind. 

[MickD]

I don't think it will be a problem.  I've done similar.  Try just a drop in some unobtrusive place.

 

Make sure the wraps are clean and dry and any loose pieces picked off.

[JeffD]

Thanks MickD, will do.

[Chris Catignani]

On 7/26/2021 at 7:36 PM, JeffD said:

Do you guys see any problem with putting a new coat of 2 part epoxy on top of a 40 year old build. I'm sure back then I used a 1 part finish of some kind. 

You probably used something like Gudebrod varnish. You could buy something like Perma Gloss (U40) and actually do the whole rod...thread and blank.

[MickD]

Permagloss is a fine, thin, light, flexible, finish that will work on the guides and whole rod, but be sure to test it somewhere on the rod to make sure it doesn't attack the current finish.  It is pretty hot stuff, lots of vapors, and it will attack some other finishes.  It usually doesn't, but you want to be sure.

 

Unless the blank is pretty beaten up, I would only refinish the guides.  But Permagloss is a fine finish if the whole blank needs to be brought up to a nice, glossy finish.  You have to work fast with it, have it planned out on how you're going to do it, most use a "throwaway" foam brush, and do it with one coat.  Do not try to keep going over it as you might with slower curing finishes.

 

https://www.rodbuilding.org/library/refinish.html

[Chris Catignani]

23 minutes ago, MickD said:

...most use a "throwaway" foam brush...

Thanks for sharing that link...Ralph O'Quinn is a legend.

 

One of my original problems with PermGloss and foam brushes is that occasionally a piece of the foam would pull off...this is because the PermaGloss sets up so fast and gets tacky.

 

I developed this process that has been pretty golden so far...

1. Pour a liberal about of PermaGloss in a bowl.

2. Take a basket-style coffee filter and a 2x2x2 piece of sponge.

3. Put the sponge in the middle of the filter and bring up the edges making a ball.

4. Dip the ball in the PermaGloss and coat your blank tip to butt.

 

If its just a blank your refinishing...you can have it sitting in bottle while you apply.

If you just doing the tread work...use a brush like other finishes

[MickD]

7 hours ago, KatDawg said:

occasionally a piece of the foam would pull off...this is because the PermaGloss sets up so fast and gets tacky.

Yes, but if this happens one is taking way too much time with the process.  Do it right, the first time over without going over and over, and you will be done way before it gets tacky enough to take a piece out of a foam brush.