Lure/jig weight and rod power

[Capriceragtop]

Hello,

The bait monkey is on my back again, and I thought I'd try to reason with it before spending money.

 

I've had some success with Chatterbaits recently, and the lake where they've worked is about 30' of shallow before an almost instant 40' drop in depth. It used to be a quarry, and goes all the way to 100-150' deep.

 

However, I've had trouble getting my Chatterbait out to the ledge; doesn't seem like the lure is dropping quickly enough for me to actually be going over the ledge into the 40' depth. I've been throwing 3/8oz and 1/2oz Chatterbait with a baby bass fluke. Not sure what the whole rig weighs. My rod is an Ugly Stik Elite, medium power, 7'. Rated up to 1/2oz. Reel is a Lew's Tournament MP Speed Spool LFS.

 

I don't feel like I'm getting the casting distance I should. Given the size of this lake, and the fact a lot of folks say they can peg 50 yrds with a baitcaster, one of three things is happening: I am overestimating the distance I need to cast, or my rod can't chuck these heavier baits like I need / poor technique, or my reel is improperly setup / poor technique.

 

What I'm wondering is, is a medium power rod, rated up to 1/2oz, capable of throwing a 1/2" chatterbait and trailer? Would a medium heavy be better? If so, I can swap to an Ugly Stik Elite, medium heavy, 7', I already own, but I'll need a different rod for my frog setup. Given heavier lures cast further, I also picked up some 3/4oz chatterbaits to hopefully increase distance.

 

In short, since I bank fish, I want to be able to bomb these lures way out, so I can get to the deeper sections of water. Would you recommend going with a longer, heavier power rod for jigs and Chatterbait, and using the 7' medium for weightless T-rig worms, or something else? Is a 7' medium heavy rod ok for frogs?

 

I'm trying to avoid too much in the way of gear, as I have 5 setups already: three spinning (ultra light/finesse, medium, medium heavy) and two baitcasters ( 7' medium and medium heavy).

 

Thanks for the advice, and tight lines to all!

[Bankc]

If your rod is only rated up to 1/2 oz. and your lure without a trailer is already there, then your lure is overpowering your rod.  You'll lose distance, and with a rod that isn't an Ugly Stik, you'll risk damaging the rod.  You want to keep the lure as near to the center of the lure weight range as you can for optimum performance and casting distance.  Too heavy of a lure, and the rod won't recover from the bend put into it while casting.  Too light, and it won't load the rod properly.  The right weight will load the rod and release it at the end of a cast, causing the lure to slingshot out.

 

I'd probably start looking at heavier medium heavy rods or lighter heavy rods for what you're doing.  A 3/4oz. chatterbait with a trailer will weight close to a full ounce.  Some medium heavy rods only go up to an ounce, so I'd look for ones rated to 1.5 oz at least.  You probably want a fast action rod, since you're fishing in depths below 30 feet, a slower action may give you trouble on hooksets with that much line out.  Also, the longer the rod, usually the further it will cast.  That's just a function of simple leverage.  And lighter rods usually help as well.  Less mass to fling means more speed.  

[Capriceragtop]

Sage advice, Bankc. In the event I am able to locate a rod you're describing, what other baits can I throw on it? The bait monkey has caused me to be fully stocked on cranks, jerks, a myriad of soft plastics, etc.

 

Also, at that point, I know the gear monkey will say, "you have a spare rod, now buy another reel!" In that case, what would you recommend throwing with a medium, 7' casting rod?

[Fishes in trees]

The only way to know if any particular bait will work - for you - on any particular rod is to try it. .For instance, a couple of my fishing bud throw spinner baits on rods that I wouldn't think of using - for a variety of reasons.   Next - it is my suspicion that most guys who say they're throwing 50 yards really aren't.  Maybe they are poor judges of distances - maybe the truth is such a precious thing that they don't want to waste it on a subject like casting distance - I don't know.  Maybe they are ALWAY throwing with a strong wind at their backs AND they're ALWAYS throwing with the wind.  I know that I have some rigs that could, if I had to , throw a half ounce or so 50 yards and if I threw a half ounce chatter bait & trailer 50 yards - good luck on strike detection and hook setting for the first 50 feet of that cast.   At that distance, you're just praying that they hook themselves.

If you're worrying about having too many rods & reels - don't - it is nearly impossible to have too many.  I have a slab spoon rig that I got for throwing ounce and a half to 2 ounce slab spoons into tail races and I can legit throw 100 yards and after an hour or so of throwing that, my fore arms and wrists are tired.

If you're wondering about how much your bait weighs and how that applies to any particular rod you can solve that pretty easily - a postal scale that weighs in grams and fractions of ounces costs 10 to 20 bucks at Walmart.  I don't know hold old mine is - at least ten years, probably more.  You mentioned casting technique in your post - IMO casting technique is important and it is one of those things that can nearly always be improved on. - but it probably isn't the issue in your case.

My best advice for you is to find a way to get off the bank - because it is likely that you'll have much more success if you can throw parallel to the bank rather than in & out.

[5/0]

59 minutes ago, Bankc said:

If your rod is only rated up to 1/2 oz. and your lure without a trailer is already there, then your lure is overpowering your rod.  You'll lose distance, and with a rod that isn't an Ugly Stik, you'll risk damaging the rod.  You want to keep the lure as near to the center of the lure weight range as you can for optimum performance and casting distance.  Too heavy of a lure, and the rod won't recover from the bend put into it while casting.  Too light, and it won't load the rod properly.  The right weight will load the rod and release it at the end of a cast, causing the lure to slingshot out.

 

I'd probably start looking at heavier medium heavy rods or lighter heavy rods for what you're doing.  A 3/4oz. chatterbait with a trailer will weight close to a full ounce.  Some medium heavy rods only go up to an ounce, so I'd look for ones rated to 1.5 oz at least.  You probably want a fast action rod, since you're fishing in depths below 30 feet, a slower action may give you trouble on hooksets with that much line out.  Also, the longer the rod, usually the further it will cast.  That's just a function of simple leverage.  And lighter rods usually help as well.  Less mass to fling means more speed.  

Your answer to the OP’s question hits on something I’ve battled with for sometime, the sweet spot for a rod’s weight rating. Not meaning to hijack the thread, just looking for some clarification, and it will also help with the original question.

My heaviest rod tops out at 1 1/4 oz. A 3/8-1/2 oz jig with hook, skirt, and craw trailer will exceed the rod’s sweet spot. The 1/2 oz being at the rod’s upper limit. So I would need to look for a rod with an upper rating of 2 oz? Wouldn’t that be in flipping stick territory and would it load up enough to cast these jigs without problem?

 

Thanks…Joe

[Capriceragtop]

26 minutes ago, Fishes in trees said:

My best advice for you is to find a way to get off the bank - because it is likely that you'll have much more success if you can throw parallel to the bank rather than in & out.

Good point. I do have a kayak, and am hoping to use it some this year. However, I'm aiming to get better at casting before I do so, so I spend more time fishing, less time detangling braid.

[Bass Rutten]

You didn't mention line, but could probably get a 1/2oz chatter down there with a thinner braid like 20 or 30lb on your current gear. If you go with a 3/4oz chatterbait, it weighs an ounce by itself, 3/4oz is just the lead before adding the hook and other components nevermind the trailer, with trailer it's closer to 1.25oz. I use a 7'3" daiwa swimbait rod rate to 4oz for 3/4oz chatters and spinnerbaits. You'll need a heavy rod at a minimum, the longer the better, your going to need to move some line to get a good hookset at those depths. Since your on the bank I'd look into lighter swimbait rods which tend to be 7'9"-8"0 long, the dobyns 794/795 is relatively cheap and will cast well down to an ounce, irod has some decent budget ones too, don't forget a 200 size reel, go monkey! 

 

[txchaser]

Your rod is at least one power too light for what you are throwing. Chatterbait and a trailer will be around 3/4 oz unless it is a tiny trailer. As an example, I've been using a Daiwa MH rod for 3/8 and 1/2 oz chatterbaits and I have decided I really need to go to a heavy. 

 

[MGF]

I should probably go check the specs on my rods before I post but...my two most used BC outfits are labeled "medium". A typical bait I'd tie on would be a 3/8 oz jig with a trailer like a rage bug or a 3.8 (ish) paddle tail.

 

That's just about right for skipping which is what I'm often doing with that jig. I throw a 3/8 oz bladed jig on those same rods. A 1/4 oz jig is too light for comfortable casting and a 1/2 Oz with trailer is like throwing a boat anchor.

[MN Fisher]

One thing to note - the weights of chatterbaits and spinnerbaits printed on the package are JUST for the lead-head. Add in the hook, blades, skirt, etc and a 1/2oz lure is actually closer to 5/8-11/16 total.

 

Now add in a trailer that can be as much as 1/3oz, and that "1/2oz lure" is now around 1oz total.

[Bankc]

20 hours ago, 5/0 said:

Your answer to the OP’s question hits on something I’ve battled with for sometime, the sweet spot for a rod’s weight rating. Not meaning to hijack the thread, just looking for some clarification, and it will also help with the original question.

My heaviest rod tops out at 1 1/4 oz. A 3/8-1/2 oz jig with hook, skirt, and craw trailer will exceed the rod’s sweet spot. The 1/2 oz being at the rod’s upper limit. So I would need to look for a rod with an upper rating of 2 oz? Wouldn’t that be in flipping stick territory and would it load up enough to cast these jigs without problem?

 

Thanks…Joe

Honestly, you'll just have to try it to know.  The thing about manufacturers rod ratings is that they're not very consistent across brands.  One brand might list lower than actual numbers, another higher.  I have a medium heavy and a heavy rod from two different brands with the same lure rating (5/8-1 1/2oz.). The medium heavy won't cast anything above 1 1/4 oz. well and the heavy won't cast well below 7/8 oz.  If they were made by the same brand, I bet the heavy rod would be labeled 1-2oz.  The difference in the two rod's powers is pretty dramatic, but looking at the numbers, they should be similar.  I also have two medium lights with the exact same numbers.  But if they were from the same brand, they would easily be a full step above or below the other, if not more.  

 

So the numbers aren't definitive.  But they're good for getting a general idea.  In the OP's case, it sounded like his rod was underpowered and the numbers backed that up.  So stepping up a rod power or two would be the logical solution.