Why copolymer/mono is the most versatile line

[PressuredFishing]

I'm going to get bashed I know I know, but what other line can topwater, crank, flip, pitch, worm, etc etc. Not saying it'd always the best but I know it's the best for doing everything. Floro is a close second but can't topwater, and braid is kinda meh because you have a knot in your line and while it can also do everything, it cannot crank without some stretch, it's also bad around wood. Some monos are even less stretchy than some braids if you explore enough. Not a perfect line, but us humans aren't perfect either, so in theory having perfect gear is pointless without a perfect angler 

[jimmyjoe]

31 minutes ago, PressuredFishing said:

Some monos are even less stretchy than some braids

 

   Really? Which ones would that be?              Jim

[Bluebasser86]

If I was going to pick only one type of line, yes I'd go with a good quality mono. Thankfully, I don't have to pick because frogging and flipping grass with mono is a nightmare, I don't like using it for treble hooked topwaters, spinning reels perform so much better with braid, C-rigging (as much as I hate it), is way easier with braid, and I like a good quality fluoro for bottom contact baits much better than mono. Mono all the way on jerks, cranks, traps, and single hook moving baits though. 

[bulldog1935]

I was one of the last braid hold-outs, watching my friends suffering impossible wind knots.  

(then I was only using cheap YoZuri braid for backing Seaguar fluoro working line)

 

That changed when I added shallow spool Stradic and Vanquish.  

For my primary inshore niche, I'm mostly fishing 1/4 oz and below, and need to cast distance in wind.  When I recognized I couldn't remember a baitcaster backlash, I tried 20-lb Sufix 832 on a baitcaster.  Haven't look back, and have looked way forward to BFS with tiny X-braid.  

 

While "limp" mono is often discussed on BR, there's really no such thing - the stiffness of mono/fluoro is its advantage.  If backlash on baitcaster is an issue for you, mono/fluoro is your friend.  Totally limp braid can hide backlash that's tough to work out and expensive to replace.  

[J Francho]

9 hours ago, PressuredFishing said:

Some monos are even less stretchy than some braids if you explore enough.

Bold claim.  Which ones?  Even braid that is designed to stretch doesn't really stretch that much.  I do agree that copolymer/mono (technically these are mostly multi polymer lines these days) is more versatile, but most here are going to specialize and use a certain line type best suited for that task.  I don't like braid that much, but almost all my heavy cover set ups have it.  I rarely use a leader, so the knot argument doesn't hold for me.

[bulldog1935]

I think we all realize he doesn't have an example to back his erroneous statement. 

Holy Cow, give him a bye.    

 

One thing, when you need to set a big swimbait hook, braid is a big advantage over mono stretch.  

 

 

 

There's another side to the fish-by-feel argument, as well.  Spooky fish that spit when they feel you may hang on longer gliding skinny braid through the water.  

Finesse braid is part of keeping the system inertia down to feel more at your end.  

Edited July 1, 2021 by bulldog1935

[DaubsNU1]

Ran mono on all my spinning rods until recently. Braid on all my bait-casters (since the 1990's).

 

Spooled up a spinning rod with braid-to-fluorocarbon before a recent trip to South Dakota...hated it at first...but kept after it...and finally won me over.

 

Now that I'm fishing hi-visibility yellow braid, I'm catching more fish...seeing the slight twitch in the line when a fish hits...or feeling hits via better sensitivity. I'm not great at leader knots, breaking off at least once per trip...but I'm getting better.

 

Sadly, I think mono is a no-go for my future...

[Catt]

My argument with all the claims about the stretch of mono is about how the test are conducted. One end of the line is attached to an immovable object while the other end is attached to a mechanical apparatus that applies more pressure than anyone can with their rod.

 

Ain't saying mono doesn't stretch but rather those test do not show real world conditions.

 

The bass is movable ?

 

I tried real hard for the last couple of years to like Fluorocarbon but in the end it's a no go.

 

Braid is for punching & frogging only.

[PressuredFishing]

37 minutes ago, DaubsNU1 said:

Ran mono on all my spinning rods until recently. Braid on all my bait-casters (since the 1990's).

 

Spooled up a spinning rod with braid-to-fluorocarbon before a recent trip to South Dakota...hated it at first...but kept after it...and finally won me over.

 

Now that I'm fishing hi-visibility yellow braid, I'm catching more fish...seeing the slight twitch in the line when a fish hits...or feeling hits via better sensitivity. I'm not great at leader knots, breaking off at least once per trip...but I'm getting better.

 

Sadly, I think mono is a no-go for my future...

I understand, it's not perfect and if you are getting technique specific it's terrible but I think it's the most versatile for beginners as they can throw multiple lures

3 minutes ago, Catt said:

My argument with all the claims about the stretch of mono is about how the test are conducted. One end of the line is attached to an immovable object while the other end is attached to a mechanical apparatus that applies more pressure than anyone can with their rod.

 

Ain't saying mono doesn't stretch but rather those test do not show real world conditions.

 

The bass is movable ?

 

I tried real hard for the last couple of years to like Fluorocarbon but in the end it's a no go.

 

Braid is for punching & frogging only.

Yup I hear you, I also really like braid in the saltwater but for the most part mono is my favorite for topwater and cranking unless I need to get deeper. I even throw crigs trigd spinnerbaits and alot else on it.

58 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

I think we all realize he doesn't have an example to back his erroneous statement.    

 

One thing, when you need to set a big swimbait hook, braid is a big advantage over mono stretch.  

 

 

 

There's another side to the fish-by-feel argument, as well.  Spooky fish that spit when they feel you may hang on longer gliding skinny braid through the water.  

Finesse braid is part of keeping the system inertia down to feel more at your end.  

100% I'm not saying braid isn't killer in certain applications, I'm just saying mono is more versatile and is better for a beginner wanting to throw many different lure types

[DaubsNU1]

2 minutes ago, PressuredFishing said:

I understand, it's not perfect and if you are getting technique specific it's terrible but I think it's the most versatile for beginners as they can throw multiple lures

 

For beginners, on a spinning rod, 100% agree mono is the best! No doubt.

 

[PressuredFishing]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

Bold claim.  Which ones?  Even braid that is designed to stretch doesn't really stretch that much.  I do agree that copolymer/mono (technically these are mostly multi polymer lines these days) is more versatile, but most here are going to specialize and use a certain line type best suited for that task.  I don't like braid that much, but almost all my heavy cover set ups have it.  I rarely use a leader, so the knot argument doesn't hold for me.

The yo Zuri super braid is somewhat stretchy to me, not near like jbraid or power pro imo. But less stretchy than mono. 

1 hour ago, bulldog1935 said:

I was one of the last braid hold-outs, watching my friends suffering impossible wind knots.  

(then I was only using cheap YoZuri braid for backing Seaguar fluoro working line)

 

That changed when I added shallow spool Stradic and Vanquish.  

For my primary inshore niche, I'm mostly fishing 1/4 oz and below, and need to cast distance in wind.  When I recognized I couldn't remember a baitcaster backlash, I tried 20-lb Sufix 832 on a baitcaster.  Haven't look back, and have looked way forward to BFS with tiny X-braid.  

 

While "limp" mono is often discussed on BR, there's really no such thing - the stiffness of mono/fluoro is its advantage.  If backlash on baitcaster is an issue for you, mono/fluoro is your friend.  Totally limp braid can hide backlash that's tough to work out and expensive to replace.  

Yeah I don't care for yo Zuris braid either, but I soak my mono in cold water for at least 3 weeks and they sit for 8 months, kis u not line comes off almost straight with little or no coils. I have tried it on izorlines coploymer all the way down to zebcos omniflex. It surprisingly all works

[NoShoes]

21 minutes ago, Catt said:

My argument with all the claims about the stretch of mono is about how the test are conducted. One end of the line is attached to an immovable object while the other end is attached to a mechanical apparatus that applies more pressure than anyone can with their rod.

 

Ain't saying mono doesn't stretch but rather those test do not show real world conditions.

 

The bass is movable ?

 

I tried real hard for the last couple of years to like Fluorocarbon but in the end it's a no go.

 

Braid is for punching & frogging only.

mono definitely stretches, but I feel like it’s stretching right around where my drag would let loose anyways.  At that point does it matter?

 

I went back to mono after being a braid to leader guy for a year. I was tired of tying leaders, and big game is so much cheaper. Fish didn’t seem to care, but the hook sets definitely are different now. It’s hard to beat that positive lock with a braid hook set. 

[bulldog1935]

@NoShoes

I have to admit to loving to tie leader knots (I've been rolling great allbright knots for 48 years of fly fishing).  Every one is a challenge to be better than the last.  This knot corresponded with a black 5-m mark on the finesse braid.  

 

What I don't do is tie a lot of them -  I put a perfection loop in the business end of my fluoro leader, and loop-on paper clips or micro-swivel snaps, traces, and cigar-cork rigs.  

Loop-to-loop, btw, is stronger than Any single-bend knot.  

[J Francho]

55 minutes ago, PressuredFishing said:

The yo Zuri super braid is somewhat stretchy to me, not near like jbraid or power pro imo. But less stretchy than mono. 

Your claim was that some monos are less stretchy than some braids, but didn't say which monos.  

[MassYak85]

I'm a braid to leader guy for almost everything. I never feel I'm at a disadvantage and any play I want to add to a setup is done with my rod selection and drag. When I hear people say stuff like "braid rips out treble hooks"...all I can say is I've never had that problem. I'll take the sensitivity of braid any day. 

[the reel ess]

If you like it, more power to you and it's a good discussion. But I've gone to braid for almost everything and thinking about it for literally everything. If I need some mono I'll use a leader. To me braid is the best for all single hook lures. It's good for big topwaters because you have less slack to take up to set a hook. I'll admit that mono is more forgiving when landing a bass. I just set my drag pretty loose with the trebles and don't horse them in. I caught my biggest bass of this year, 7.93 lb., on a Whopper Plopper using 30# braid on a 7' MH cranking rod. I had to apply some thumb a couple times to keep it out of weeds. I'm still using 15# Big Game for my MH spinnerbait/buzzbait rod. And I still have 6# mono on my panfish combos.

[NoShoes]

41 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

@NoShoes

I have to admit to loving to tie leader knots (I've been rolling great allbright knots for 48 years of fly fishing).  Every one is a challenge to be better than the last.  This knot corresponded with a black 5-m mark on the finesse braid.  

 

What I don't do is tie a lot of them -  I put a perfection loop in the business end of my fluoro leader, and loop-on paper clips or micro-swivel snaps, traces, and cigar-cork rigs.  

Loop-to-loop, btw, is stronger than Any single-bend knot.  

I used to enjoy it but turned more into a pain. I can tie the prettiest FG knot you’ll ever see and never had one fail, just wore thin on me tying them. 
 

I may switch back, my casting distance dropped going back to mono and my hook sets don’t feel as solid but there are benefits to the mono. Simplicity, cost, lighter wire hooks (with braid I bent a hook every hook set before going to superline hooks). Everything has trade offs though. 

[WRB]

You read this stuff about braid and Fluorocarbon and wonder how did we catch all the bass prior to those lines.

Mono is stretchy is probably the biggest hoax of all, more line coefficient of water drag definitely , stretch yes if you apply over 40% tensile strength where yield faster. Most bass rods can’t apply more then 1 lb before bending 25% or 5 lbs before bottoming out.

Everyone of those 5 bass listed were caught on 10#-12# mono over 90’  when the strike occurred using jigs....ponder that!

Tom

 

[J Francho]

2 minutes ago, WRB said:

You read this stuff about braid and Fluorocarbon and wonder how did we catch all the bass prior to those lines.

especially...with those "high speed" 3.7:1 reels  

[bulldog1935]

I doubt if anyone wonders, except maybe about  putting money where mouth pontificates.  

I've caught many nice bass on this, and it's a hoot to fish - especially morning topwaters - even those "sinking" buzz baits that are supposed to need faster reels - it's just not go-to.  

Braided silk lasts indefinitely if you dry it on your line winder every trip.  

Hell, in 1871, Doc Henshall offered the first bass rod that was less than 12' - and solid wood.  

 

[Bankc]

I've found myself using braid for just about everything.  If need be, I'll tie on a leader.  But braid's castability, durability and strength just keep making it the best, all-around choice for me.  And since I fish from a kayak, I have to make sure all of my rods are multipurpose rods because I'm quite limited in what I can carry.  

One thing I'll say about line stretch is you have to consider the rod you're using it on.  I have an old m/m rod that I used for crankbait fishing, and it did not do well with mono.  The soft rod and the stretchy mono combined to make hooksets near impossible with longer casts.  With a stronger rod, it's not an issue.  With braid on that rod, it's not an issue.  But those two combined were definitely an issue.  

[ironbjorn]

I don't think there's a mono on earth with less stretch than even the worst braid.

 

That said, I'm not a fan of braid. I don't like it straight and I don't like leaders.

[DitchPanda]

I'm also a braid resister. I have braid to leader on one spinning outfit and don't really know how much I care for it. For straight braid I use it on my frog rod which is the only place I feel I have to have it...if I punched I'd use it for that to. Every other rod is either mono...Trilene XL or big game...or copolymer...Izorline xxx.

[Catt]

Long before monofilament was braided Cotton, Dacron, Micron, Suture Material (Silk),

 

Whichever one you choose the proper rod becomes important, so does proper hooksets.

 

Texas Rigs & Jig-n-Craws on mono I prefer Extra Fast rods to move line before the rod kicks in. 

 

It's all personal preference 

[garroyo130]

Cant we just change the title to why copolymer is a good compromise and forget this happened?