Finesse baitcaster line?

[inferiorfisherman]

I have a dobyns extreme 702C, and I just ordered a JDM Daiwa alphas SV for a dedicated finesse rig.  I plan to use this rig for dropshot, shaky head, neds, and 1/4 oz lures.  On all of my other rigs spinning and casting I run either straight braid or braid with FC leader.  I much prefer braid as a mainline over FC or Mono, but I hear that running thin line on a baitcaster causing issues with digging in.  Here are some options I already have on hand.

Option 1:  16# sunline Xplasma braid, with a 7# sunline sniper leader

 

Option 2: 7# sniper only

 

Option 3: 10# sniper only

 

Which should I choose or is there something else I should consider?

[bulldog1935]

If you had made this a poll, I'd vote option 1 for BFS spool.  

If you reel isn't Alphas Air, I'd go with the sniper, and maybe add an aftermarket BFS spool (Roro or Ray's Studio) for braid.  

 

Mono/fluoro isn't a great idea on light BFS spool because of line stretch possibly crushing the spool.  You want the leader for some measure of shock resistance.  

 

I've really been having fun with PE#0.8 (16-lb) Duel X-wire braid.  

This is my Steez SV with a Roro-X spool - the 2-mm-deep spool holds 100 m.  

On this shallow spool, digging isn't an issue, where it might be on a stacked deeper spool.  

 

 

 

[redmeansdistortion]

I run 8lb or 10lb J-Braid on my BFS reels, works great.  Dig-in isn't that much of an issue with these shallow spools.  As long as your drag is set right and you aren't trying to horse your way out of snags, you have nothing to worry about.  I run my 10lb with a 6lb Maxima Ultragreen leader and my 8lb with a 4lb Maxima leader, both work very well.

[FryDog62]

I have an Air TW and Alphas SV and run straight fluoro on both. Seems to work well for hair jigs, Neds, drop shots, etc. 

 

At one point I did experiment with braid/leader. It didn’t dig in but at the time I was rigging to drop shot. I ended up tying 4 knots (braided/leader, a knot to the VMC spin shot hook, a knot from the spin shot hook down to the dropper, and knot to the sinker). Four knots was tedious and too many chances for failure. Switched back to straight fluoro.
 

I mainly use Sniper 7 on both rigs, but have used 10 lb occasionally on a ML rod/Alphas SV when fishing tubes around light/moderate cover. 

[inferiorfisherman]

37 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

If you had made this a poll, I'd vote option 1 for BFS spool.  

If you reel isn't Alphas Air, I'd go with the sniper, and maybe add an aftermarket BFS spool (Roro or Ray's Studio) for braid.  

 

Mono/fluoro isn't a great idea on light BFS spool because of line stretch possibly crushing the spool.  You want the leader for some measure of shock resistance.  

 

I've really been having fun with PE#0.8 (16-lb) Duel X-wire braid.  

This is my Steez SV with a Roro-X spool - the 2-mm-deep spool holds 100 m.  

On this shallow spool, digging isn't an issue, where it might be on a stacked deeper spool.  

 

 

 

Thanks.  I thought about ordering the BFS spool for it, but I figured I would try it with standard spool first and see how I liked it.  I still plan on getting an even lighter BFS rig in the future.  With this rig the litest think I will throw is a 1/10oz Ned head with a TRD worm which weighed out about .3 oz in total.  I think most of the time it will have a 3/16 shaky head tied on with various finesse worms.  

[redmeansdistortion]

3 minutes ago, inferiorfisherman said:

Thanks.  I thought about ordering the BFS spool for it, but I figured I would try it with standard spool first and see how I liked it.  I still plan on getting an even lighter BFS rig in the future.  With this rig the litest think I will throw is a 1/10oz Ned head with a TRD worm which weighed out about .3 oz in total.  I think most of the time it will have a 3/16 shaky head tied on with various finesse worms.  

You shouldn't need a BFS spool for throwing those sorts of baits, she will be just fine.  The Alphas SV is very well capable of throwing 1/8 out of the box, so you're good to go.  If you're still wanting to run braid, maybe consider stepping up to 15 or 20lb since that is a deeper spool than a BFS spool.  

[bulldog1935]

yeah, but it's freaking fun to fish 3 g out to 120' 

and have the ability to cast 2 g consistently to 100'

 

[fishwizzard]

I am not a braid fan and one of the reasons I love BFS is that I can use 7-10lb fluoro as mainline with out the handling annoyances while bring able to use lighter weight reels. 
 

In your case I would pick 10lb Sniper based on wanting to throw 3/16oz shakeyheads. Otherwise, I think a thinner line would be a better fit for the rod, I have a DX 703c and imho it’s a solid “12lb” line rod and the 702c is supposedly more like a 1.5 power lower then the 703c.  

[waymont]

3 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

Mono/fluoro isn't a great idea on light BFS spool because of line stretch possibly crushing the spool.  You want the leader for some measure of shock resistance.  

Never heard that one. I’ve been using 8 and 10lb straight FC on BFS spools this season, and have caught some pretty big fish and have no issues.

how is the light line stretching going to crush a spool?

[fishwizzard]

8 minutes ago, waymont said:

Never heard that one. I’ve been using 8 and 10lb straight FC on BFS spools this season, and have caught some pretty big fish and have no issues.

how is the light line stretching going to crush a spool?

I believe the idea is that wet line will contract as it dries.  I have never seen anyone post a picture of a spool that has been damaged in this manner or even a first hand account of it happening, so I am somewhat skeptical of the idea in general.  

[bulldog1935]

@waymont

if you load long enough line under elastic tension, it gradually relaxes shorter and crushes the spool:  

Same way mono used as backing can blow the side plates off fly reel spools.  

It's honestly not something I would ever want to see, but the principle is sound.  

 

 

  https://www.hedgehog-studio.co.jp/product/3868

 

* Caution

* If a lot of nylon lines that are thinner than the lines indicated in the line capacity are wound, there is a risk of spool damage due to swelling and contraction due to the water absorption peculiar to nylon lines.

Please be careful.  

■ Precautions when using When
When winding the line on the spool, applying too much tension may cause damage.
Especially when winding a stretchy line such as a nylon line, loosen the tension before use.

 

I have seen titanium tubes in a low-pressure heat exchanger that crushed to ribbons because the film of water surrounding them flashed to saturation steam pressure.  

[waymont]

8 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

@waymont

if you load long enough line under elastic tension, it gradually relaxes shorter and crushes the spool:  

Same way mono used as backing can blow the side plates off fly reel spools.  

It's honestly not something I would ever want to see, but the principle is sound.  

 

  https://www.hedgehog-studio.co.jp/product/3868

 

* Caution

* If a lot of nylon lines that are thinner than the lines indicated in the line capacity are wound, there is a risk of spool damage due to swelling and contraction due to the water absorption peculiar to nylon lines.

Please be careful.  

■ Precautions when using When
When winding the line on the spool, applying too much tension may cause damage.
Especially when winding a stretchy line such as a nylon line, loosen the tension before use.

I should be cool since I have been putting about 3/4 of the capacity of FC on my spools and it 

doesn't absorb water.  There would have to be a LOT of tension on the line, more than I would ever dream of applying, when spooling it to cause damage. . Anyone ever have this happen to a BFS spool?

[bulldog1935]

It's not an issue with most solid spools, because they have enough stiffness they can withstand the extra tension.  

It's an issue with 5-g honeycomb spools that will let you cast 2 g.  

It's also not an issue with PE braid, since braid doesn't stretch.  

But you want some elastic shock resistance, so you use leaders that will stretch and absorb shock.  

[redmeansdistortion]

44 minutes ago, waymont said:

Anyone ever have this happen to a BFS spool?

I never have, but I can see it happening with the honeycomb spools as they don't have the structural integrity of a standard non ported spool.  I run 8lb J-Braid on this guy.

 

 

 

[waymont]

16 minutes ago, redmeansdistortion said:

I never have, but I can see it happening with the honeycomb spools as they don't have the structural integrity of a standard non ported spool.  I run 8lb J-Braid on this guy.

 

 

 

I only have Ray’s spools, they seem more robust, and are probably heavier too. I’ve never weighed them.

[WRB]

If you understand hoop strength the light weight spools with holes or honey comb will not deform under 360 degrees line pressure. These spools are machined aluminum with solid sides. 

You may be able to deform the spool by putting single point high force with your thumb, but the line or rod should break long before.

Sunline 7 kB Sniper is a good FC for spinning reels do to it’s memory vs abrasion resistance but needs constant management for line twist. Gama Touch 7 lb  FC is softer, less memory and reduced abrasion resistance and behaves good on casting reels. Seaguar Tatsu and Sunline Shooter are excellent on casting reels, but expressive. 

I use 5 lb /.008D Maxima UG Copolymer line for my finesse because it’s does everything good. Should work on your finesse BFS application.

Tom 

[bulldog1935]

Yet those titanium heat exchanger tubes I mentioned flattened to ribbon under exactly uniform external pressure from a constrained film of steam in low pressure water.  

There's an instability in that compressive hoop stress - when it's no longer round, it's no longer uniform hoop stress, and has no choice but to flatten.  

The instability is addressed in ASME VIII-2 design.  

External Pressure Design with COMPRESS | Codeware

TX PE No. 75665  

The calculation isn't my bailiwick, I gave that to a PhD ME.  

The Engineering Science is exactly my bailiwick.  

 

[redmeansdistortion]

3 hours ago, waymont said:

I only have Ray’s spools, they seem more robust, and are probably heavier too. I’ve never weighed them.

The Ray's spools are nice, I have them for other reels.  I was looking for something that used a fixed inductor and grabbed this Momo Studio spool.  This reel is set up for short range pitching.  At such close distance, the inductor on a SV type spool isn't going to move much at such a low spool speed as is typical of that type of casting.  I'm not intending to cast much past 10 yards at the very most.  Mounted on a 4'10" Major Craft, it's quite the creek fishing machine tailored towards trout.

 

While I don't use that spool and rod for bass, I do have a SLP Works spool for when I do and pair that with a JDM Daiwa Bass X 6'4" L.  On that one I run 10lb braid and throw small jigs and soft plastics of about 3g up to 5g.  It's a lot of fun catching smallies in the reeds on Lake St Clair with that setup.  

[bulldog1935]

I use Ray's SV spool on this bass rod, and covers the wide range extremely well, and will still cast the 2 g to 100' - PE#1 X-braid, 22-lb test.  

Agree w/ @redmeansdistortion, the light lure end doesn't engage the SV complication, and after you set the mag brake for the lightest thing you're going to throw, the SV takes over for everything heavier.  

 

 

I swap to Roro-X fixed rotor spool and the long rod shown farther above for my light-lure salt niche.  The lighter Roro spool has a slight distance advantage, though surprisingly, the rod length doesn't make that much difference - the biggest difference it makes is ease of aiming the long cast (and the shorter rod is more accurate in close).

Noteworthy, the long small game rod and Roro-X spool fished 3 g farther with more reliable casting accuracy than a similar small game spinning rod would fish 5 g.  

[papajoe222]

I use 10lb. FC on my Alphas with no issues. I don’t feel the need to go to a lighter/thinner FC and I fish some super clear water with 1/8oz. Hair jigs and 1/16oz tubes. I’d give the standard spool a shot before investing in a BFS one.  
then again, I’m not concerned with casting distance, maybe you are. 

[WRB]

Don Iovino “The father of finesse bass fishing” used his custom 2500C bait casting reel (BFS) over 30 years.

The line Don uses is Maxima Ultra Green 5#,6# and 8# Copolymer line. 

After trying every premium FC line with random break off’s Don, like me, doesn’t trust FC line. Maxima UG is reliable.

Tom

[inferiorfisherman]

I received my alphas sv, slapped it on the dx702c and spooled it up with some left over 15lb power pro ssv2.  I took it outside with an 1/8, 3/16, and 1/4 oz casting weights.  1/4oz casted awesome.  more distance than I expected with very little effort.  3/16 casted ok, but was pulling slightly.  I had to release it a bit sooner to hit my target side arm casting.  1/8th didn't cast well as all.  I tried different brake settings, and different spool tensions and could get it to want to come off the reel easily.  even with no brakes and basically no tension on the spool it would pull hard to left as if I had brake or tension way too high.   I can't tell if it is the reel or the rod not loading with the 1/8 oz that is holding it back.  

 

For dropshot and shaky head 1/8oz plus finesse worm will be the lightest.  I weighed some worms and it looks like my lightest is 1/8oz, so the total will be 1/4oz which seems to cast great.  A 1/10 oz ned with a trd tickler is only about 3/16 (slightly over) in total weight.  I might still have to break out the spinning rod for that, or just start using a heavier ned head.  

 

I like the feel of the reel, so I think I might get another with a BFS spool and find an ultra finesse rod.  I have a lot of research to do to find the right rod for that rig.

 

All of this being said I think this combo will suite my desired techniques very well.  It will probably end up with a 3/16 shaky head tied on most of the time.  I just still think I need to add something even lighter to my arsenal next.  In the mean time I am going to experiment some different lines I have left over after spooling other rigs.  Next up will be sniper 10lb.