Super User Mobasser Posted June 25, 2021 Super User Posted June 25, 2021 I'm sure I'm not the only one among BR members that's thought about this. If your fishing over very thick weeds, grass, pads, or any thick similar cover can a bass actually tell what your lure is trying to imitate? Now, we have frogs, mice, toads, rats, baby ducks, snakes and I'm sure a few more I havnt seen yet. Over the very thickest cover, do you think a fish can tell the difference between a white mouse, or a white frog? Do you think they can tell the difference between a baby duck lure or a rat lure moving across the surface? I'm not sure, but I believe they can't tell what these baits represent. They sense something moving slowly across the weeds, that moves like a food source, and quickly attack. I've never seen a bass eat a mouse off the surface, nor have I seen one eat a baby duck. I've never seen one eat a rat, and I can't recall ever seeing any rats on the surface , yet each year some big fish strike these baits. I'm convinced, that when casting these lures over the thickest weeds it may not matter what actual bait type that you throw. These strikes are true reaction strikes, and many times the fish probably don't know what they're actually striking at. These lures are popular for summer fishing, and just like all bass lures, are designed to sell. But, for a novice, I would choose maybe one mouse and one frog, and see which style works best for you. Either could work on any given day. I'm convinced that many times, the bait type may not matter very much. What's the consensus here? Agree or disagree? 2 Quote
PressuredFishing Posted June 25, 2021 Posted June 25, 2021 8 minutes ago, Mobasser said: I'm sure I'm not the only one among BR members that's thought about this. If your fishing over very thick weeds, grass, pads, or any thick similar cover can a bass actually tell what your lure is trying to imitate? Now, we have frogs, mice, toads, rats, baby ducks, snakes and I'm sure a few more I havnt seen yet. Over the very thickest cover, do you think a fish can tell the difference between a white mouse, or a white frog? Do you think they can tell the difference between a baby duck lure or a rat lure moving across the surface? I'm not sure, but I believe they can't tell what these baits represent. They sense something moving slowly across the weeds, that moves like a food source, and quickly attack. I've never seen a bass eat a mouse off the surface, nor have I seen one eat a baby duck. I've never seen one eat a rat, and I can't recall ever seeing any rats on the surface , yet each year some big fish strike these baits. I'm convinced, that when casting these lures over the thickest weeds it may not matter what actual bait type that you throw. These strikes are true reaction strikes, and many times the fish probably don't know what they're actually striking at. These lures are popular for summer fishing, and just like all bass lures, are designed to sell. But, for a novice, I would choose maybe one mouse and one frog, and see which style works best for you. Either could work on any given day. I'm convinced that many times, the bait type may not matter very much. What's the consensus here? Agree or disagree? "If it looks like food, and acts like food, it is probably food" -Brian Flechsig This statement holds true to me, lets be honest, what in the world does a senko represent, and why in the world does it work, exactly lol. I think if a very well known fly fisherman would say this (and fly fisherman can be very picky about selections of fly's to mimic aquatic insects/baitfish/larvae/etc, it should tell you something. bass are very opportunistic and aggressive feeders and they will slap at something moving above then because why not, right? calories are calories to a bass and they dont care if its got a few feathers, scales, spines, or anything in between, as long as they can fit it comfortably in their mouth (or even uncomfortably) they are happy. today bass where chasing small baitfish sized shiners or something and they where popping in open water, I threw a frog because I had one on and got multiple bites (although I set the hook to soon, because im not the best and getting better lol). now does that frog look like a bait-fish, absolutely not but, food is food to them and they dont really care what fits in their mouth ? Quote
Global Moderator Bluebasser86 Posted June 25, 2021 Global Moderator Posted June 25, 2021 I doubt bass have the cognitive reasoning to decide what many prey items are, even when they can clearly see them. Most likely it's more of a "can I catch that and will it fit in my mouth", type process. Maybe, through past experiences, they can decide to attack or pass on a item, and maybe choose to target a certain prey item based on availability, but I think that's probably about as in depth as a bass gets with it's food selection. Kind of comes back to the "Was it the bait or the location", discussion. 4 Quote
Biglittle8 Posted June 25, 2021 Posted June 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Bluebasser86 said: Most likely it's more of a "can I catch that and will it fit in my mouth", This... when bass are actively feeding. Quote
Super User Catt Posted June 25, 2021 Super User Posted June 25, 2021 Fishing over the top of matted cover or punching through...it's 100% reaction. 3 Quote
Super User Koz Posted June 25, 2021 Super User Posted June 25, 2021 Bass are reactionary predators. For years I jokes that you could take a block of unpainted balsa wood, put some treble hooks on it, and catch bass. Then last year I saw a video of a guy who did just that. If the bait makes the right vibration or has the right movement at the right time in the right location a bass is going to strike. 3 Quote
Global Moderator Mike L Posted June 25, 2021 Global Moderator Posted June 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Catt said: Fishing over the top of matted cover or punching through...it's 100% reaction. 52 minutes ago, Koz said: Bass are reactionary predators. If the bait makes the right vibration or has the right movement at the right time in the right location a bass is going to strike. Ditto Mike 3 Quote
galyonj Posted June 25, 2021 Posted June 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Koz said: Then last year I saw a video of a guy who did just that. Big fan of Nate Marling. That video was my introduction to his work. Quote
Super User scaleface Posted June 25, 2021 Super User Posted June 25, 2021 I have never seen a mouse in the water but I have seen one in a basses stomach . 1 Quote
jlb6 Posted June 25, 2021 Posted June 25, 2021 5 hours ago, Koz said: If the bait makes the right vibration or has the right movement at the right time in the right location a bass is going to strike. I think it’s a combination of the wide variety of retailers looking for your dollars and the SM content creators looking for your subscriber smash (also dollar-driven) that attempt to make bass fishing more mysterious and specific bait dependent, than it ever was or will ever need to be. Dealing with a lot of young anglers starting off you should hear/see them walking in to a retailer like BP where you can choose from literally thousands of bait/color combos or presentations. They just don’t know where to start. Honestly it is a huge put-off to new anglers as it can be overwhelming and perpetuate this very problem. This thread is exactly why I tell them to start here. Huge believer that place, time, rate of retrieve/fall/vibration/sound, etc. all come well before matching the hatch. This week I saw the craziest thing I’ve ever seen fishing; a LM literally crash site and beach itself on to eat a d**n sparrow (it was successful). Basically as said above if a fish is actively feeding and it perceives that food source as able to fit in its mouth I’m convinced there’s not a lot of cognitive processes taking place. Figuring out the where, when, why and how on any given day you get a chance to be on the water (when they might not be actively feeding) are the real mystery/skill IMO. 2 Quote
5/0 Posted June 25, 2021 Posted June 25, 2021 4 hours ago, scaleface said: I have never seen a mouse in the water but I have seen one in a basses stomach . Years ago our deer club had a very small pond with 4-5 one pound bass in it. It was pretty clear. We’d catch mice when cleaning out our cabins and toss them into it. They’d last about the time it would take to snap your fingers. 2 Quote
Jaderose Posted June 25, 2021 Posted June 25, 2021 100% reaction. When you are talking heavy mats they can't even see the lure. This is why I laugh when see all the colors and "super realistic" this and "hand-painted" that and the high prices that go with them. Find the frog (or toad, or mouse, or (lol) duck, that you like the ACTION of and use that. I base frog choices off of SIZE and ACTION. I couldn't care any less about what they look like. 4 Quote
DaubsNU1 Posted June 25, 2021 Posted June 25, 2021 Bass are simple creatures, with a very small brain. As a fisherman, I tend to over-think situations a lot...and need to remind myself of the statement above. Why would a bass hit a spinner-bait, a beetle spin, Mepps, Rapala, jig, Senko, Slug-Go, Jitterbug, Zara Spook...I don't know for sure. What I do know, is lure manufactures are always coming up with newer | better | flashier | more basic | brighter | darker | etc. | etc. | etc...They are businesses...and their primary objective is to make $$$. Want to catch fish...get a slip-bobber, shiner or minnows, toss out...sit back...get ready. Pretty simple. 3 Quote
rk123 Posted June 25, 2021 Posted June 25, 2021 13 minutes ago, DaubsNU1 said: Bass are simple creatures, with a very small brain. As a fisherman, I tend to over-think situations a lot...and need to remind myself of the statement above. Why would a bass hit a spinner-bait, a beetle spin, Mepps, Rapala, jig, Senko, Slug-Go, Jitterbug, Zara Spook...I don't know for sure. What I do know, is lure manufactures are always coming up with newer | better | flashier | more basic | brighter | darker | etc. | etc. | etc...They are businesses...and their primary objective is to make $$$. Want to catch fish...get a slip-bobber, shiner or minnows, toss out...sit back...get ready. Pretty simple. Well one thing I think is still important regardless of whether color or patterns really affect whether a bass will strike or not is confidence. I think, at least for heavy cover fishing where bass clearly can't see the bait nearly as well as you might think, the color does have the purpose of creating a habit or confidence as irrational as it may be. Insofar as my own experiences color has played some role in my confidence, making me fish a certain way for longer or in more places. They may have a small brain, but we don't (well maybe I do lmao). Also, live bait is a little to simple, and takes some of the fun out of fishing. Overthinking has some upsides, because we're also fickle creatures. 2 Quote
Super User QUAKEnSHAKE Posted June 25, 2021 Super User Posted June 25, 2021 1 hour ago, DaubsNU1 said: Bass are simple creatures, with a very small brain. Why would a bass hit a spinner-bait, a beetle spin, Mepps, Rapala, jig, Senko, Slug-Go, Jitterbug, Zara Spook.... Yet some fishermen believe bass can figure out if fc or braid is attached to those lures and not hit the one with braid. If they could discern that acutely they would know those lures arent food in the first place. 5 Quote
Super User geo g Posted June 26, 2021 Super User Posted June 26, 2021 A long time ago I had a conversation with an old bait shop owner, Pat Fitzpatrick, we were talking about Roland's Helicopter Lure and a big fish I caught on it. Like someone already said, he stated "sometimes a block of wood and a hook will just do the job". Bass will just react to movement under certain circumstances regardless of how ridiculous it may be! 1 Quote
Super User jimmyjoe Posted June 26, 2021 Super User Posted June 26, 2021 On 6/24/2021 at 11:29 PM, Mobasser said: These lures are popular for summer fishing, and just like all bass lures, are designed to sell. There's the right answer. ? jj Quote
Captain Phil Posted June 26, 2021 Posted June 26, 2021 My father-in-law once caught a 6 pound bass with a piece of rag tied around a hook. James Heddon said he came to the idea of a bass plug when he threw a piece of wood he was whittling into the water and a bass hit it. At any point in time, a bass may hit anything that they mistake for food or something they want out of their territory. The question is not "will a bass hit this thing?" The question is "does this thing catch more bass than my other options?" 1 Quote
Smells like fish Posted June 26, 2021 Posted June 26, 2021 When I was a kid there was a farm pond I fished that became covered in a solid green mat. I would use the lightest lure I could use and still be able to drag across the mat. The bass would bust through taking whatever was crossing the mat. Like a spider and web. 1 Quote
Super User DitchPanda Posted June 26, 2021 Super User Posted June 26, 2021 On 6/25/2021 at 7:12 AM, scaleface said: I have never seen a mouse in the water but I have seen one in a basses stomach . Also will echo this by saying I have a pond near me that has zero crappie or shad in it but I've caught bass on white and silver baits. 2 Quote
Super User the reel ess Posted June 26, 2021 Super User Posted June 26, 2021 On 6/25/2021 at 12:29 AM, Mobasser said: I'm sure I'm not the only one among BR members that's thought about this. If your fishing over very thick weeds, grass, pads, or any thick similar cover can a bass actually tell what your lure is trying to imitate? Now, we have frogs, mice, toads, rats, baby ducks, snakes and I'm sure a few more I havnt seen yet. Over the very thickest cover, do you think a fish can tell the difference between a white mouse, or a white frog? Do you think they can tell the difference between a baby duck lure or a rat lure moving across the surface? I'm not sure, but I believe they can't tell what these baits represent. They sense something moving slowly across the weeds, that moves like a food source, and quickly attack. I've never seen a bass eat a mouse off the surface, nor have I seen one eat a baby duck. I've never seen one eat a rat, and I can't recall ever seeing any rats on the surface , yet each year some big fish strike these baits. I'm convinced, that when casting these lures over the thickest weeds it may not matter what actual bait type that you throw. These strikes are true reaction strikes, and many times the fish probably don't know what they're actually striking at. These lures are popular for summer fishing, and just like all bass lures, are designed to sell. But, for a novice, I would choose maybe one mouse and one frog, and see which style works best for you. Either could work on any given day. I'm convinced that many times, the bait type may not matter very much. What's the consensus here? Agree or disagree? I was frog fishing today and thought about this very thing. I pictured a big bass thumbing through the Petersen Filed Guide of Bass Prey. I don't think they care. They're stone cold killers. 1 Quote
Bubba 460 Posted June 26, 2021 Posted June 26, 2021 5 hours ago, the reel ess said: I was frog fishing today and thought about this very thing. I don't think they care. Nope, a bass can not tell, usually, what it is that is going across thick pads or heavy mat (well maybe a snake). All they know is it's something "Tic Tac" shaped (UFO- unidentified floating object) with erratic behavior and it looks small enough to eat ~ the three criteria that checks off the boxes for a bass to strike. Below is about what a bass sees as something goes across the pads and he's locked-on. 4 Quote
Super User the reel ess Posted June 26, 2021 Super User Posted June 26, 2021 33 minutes ago, Bubba 460 said: Nope, a bass can not tell, usually, what it is that is going across thick pads or heavy mat (well maybe a snake). All they know is it's something "Tic Tac" shaped (UFO) with erratic behavior and it looks small enough to eat ~ the three criteria that checks off the boxes for a bass to strike. Below is about what a bass sees as something goes across the pads and he's locked-on. I would say it's often not even about food or eating. They're like cats in the water. It's smaller than them so they must kill it. 2 Quote
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