Baitcaster Question

[Alden]

Hi everyone. I currently have an Abu Garcia Silvermax baitcaster that I’ve been using for a couple years. I’m thinking about upgrading to one in the $100 range but I’m not sure if it’s worth the investment.
 

I enjoy using my Silvermax but feel like it can only handle my heaviest lures without having to worry about backlash. I do thumb the spool when I cast, but I’ve seen others using more expensive baitcasters and they seem able to cast really far without touching the spool. 
 

I guess my question is, do more expensive baitcasters throw lures farther/easier without having to worry so much about backlash? 

[gunsinger]

Interested to hear some feedback on this one...

[Eric 26]

I’m certainly no expert barely an enthusiast, but I’m really enjoying my Daiwa Tatula’s,a Fuego is the same without T-wing. Also really enjoy my Shimano SLX. When set properly minimum backlashes and right there in your price point.

[GetFishorDieTryin]

38 minutes ago, Alden said:

Hi everyone. I currently have an Abu Garcia Silvermax baitcaster that I’ve been using for a couple years. I’m thinking about upgrading to one in the $100 range but I’m not sure if it’s worth the investment.
 

I enjoy using my Silvermax but feel like it can only handle my heaviest lures without having to worry about backlash. I do thumb the spool when I cast, but I’ve seen others using more expensive baitcasters and they seem able to cast really far without touching the spool. 
 

I guess my question is, do more expensive baitcasters throw lures farther/easier without having to worry so much about backlash? 

They can, but it depends on the reel.  If you want a reel to throw lures without worrying about backlash look at Daiwas SVs.  The SVs are made for versatility/castability but they aren't the longest casting reels.  The DCs generally cast farther, but they don't handle lighter baits as easy.  MGL spools are great lighter baits and as long as the spool holds enough line they are good for heavier baits.    

[Bankc]

I'm guessing the Silvermax uses a standard magnetic brake system.  You might get an improvement in a $100 reel, like a Daiwa Fuego or a Shimano SLX.  Even a dual brake reel like the BPS Pro Qualifier 2 would probably help in casting lighter lures.  But I wouldn't expect anything huge.  Standard magnetic brakes work pretty well on their own, if you have everything set up correctly.  

I'm betting your main issue is the rod.  Your rod is probably too stiff to cast lighter lures well, so you're probably having to cast harder with them to get them out there.  And that's probably what's causing your overruns.  Getting a second setup for lighter lures would probably help more than just replacing the reel.  

[Alden]

56 minutes ago, Eric 26 said:

I’m certainly no expert barely an enthusiast, but I’m really enjoying my Daiwa Tatula’s,a Fuego is the same without T-wing. Also really enjoy my Shimano SLX. When set properly minimum backlashes and right there in your price point.

I’ve heard good things about the Fuego. Did you ever use a cheaper reel before the Tatula? I’m curious if the performance is worth the price difference. 

[MN Fisher]

Just now, Alden said:

I’ve heard good things about the Fuego. Did you ever use a cheaper reel before the Tatula? I’m curious if the performance is worth the price difference. 

The only differences between the Fuego CT and the Tatula CT are

Tatula has the T-Wing - Fuego has a standard aperture

Tatula has two extra bearings...in the handle knobs - not internal

 

Otherwise they're the same reel - same frame, main gears, spool, etc.

[Alden]

36 minutes ago, GetFishorDieTryin said:

They can, but it depends on the reel.  If you want a reel to throw lures without worrying about backlash look at Daiwas SVs.  The SVs are made for versatility/castability but they aren't the longest casting reels.  The DCs generally cast farther, but they don't handle lighter baits as easy.  MGL spools are great lighter baits and as long as the spool holds enough line they are good for heavier baits.    

Thanks for your input. I’m not looking to throw anything super light, I’d just like to be able to use more variety without having to baby the spool quite so much. 

33 minutes ago, Bankc said:

I'm guessing the Silvermax uses a standard magnetic brake system.  You might get an improvement in a $100 reel, like a Daiwa Fuego or a Shimano SLX.  Even a dual brake reel like the BPS Pro Qualifier 2 would probably help in casting lighter lures.  But I wouldn't expect anything huge.  Standard magnetic brakes work pretty well on their own, if you have everything set up correctly.  

I'm betting your main issue is the rod.  Your rod is probably too stiff to cast lighter lures well, so you're probably having to cast harder with them to get them out there.  And that's probably what's causing your overruns.  Getting a second setup for lighter lures would probably help more than just replacing the reel.  

It does use the standard magnetic brakes. Just a single knob, min-max. 
 

Right now I have it set up on a Browning Medallion GT, 6’6” MH, Mod Fast. As I mentioned in another reply, I’m not looking to use it for anything real light. I’m mainly looking for something that I can cast without having to focus quite so much on thumbing the spool. It may not be an option in that price range though. 

[PhishLI]

1 hour ago, Alden said:

I guess my question is, do more expensive baitcasters throw lures farther/easier without having to worry so much about backlash? 

No. If anything they require more user participation.

 

Using a baitcaster is the equivalent of driving a car with a manual transmission. It requires user input. Period. Think of a backlash the same way you would as grinding gears or stalling out because of an abrupt clutch release. That's not the transmission's fault, it's yours. Same thing with a backlash. If you're unable, or unwilling to adjust to pain, then contemplate your errors, then don't use one. 

[Alden]

11 minutes ago, PhishLI said:

No. If anything they require more user participation.

 

Using a baitcaster is the equivalent of driving a car with a manual transmission. It requires user input. Period. Think of a backlash the same way you would as grinding gears or stalling out because of an abrupt clutch release. That's not the transmission's fault, it's yours. Same thing with a backlash. If you're unable, or unwilling to adjust to pain, then contemplate your errors, then don't use one. 

In that case, what’s the benefit of more expensive models?

[MN Fisher]

4 minutes ago, Alden said:

In that case, what’s the benefit of more expensive models?

Better built - they last longer, metal frames have less flex than 'plastic' frames, more bearings make it smoother.

[Jaderose]

10 minutes ago, Alden said:

In that case, what’s the benefit of more expensive models?

What's the difference between a Yugo and a Rolls Royce?  They both get from A to B.  

[newapti5]

If distance is your goal, I suggest the Shimano route instead of Daiwa. With a little over $100, a curado can really bomb it out there, without much of thumb work, as long as you set it right. 

[Alden]

6 minutes ago, Jaderose said:

What's the difference between a Yugo and a Rolls Royce?  They both get from A to B.  

I’m not a car guy so I’d say the Rolls Royce is a status symbol for people with money. 

2 minutes ago, newapti5 said:

If distance is your goal, I suggest the Shimano route instead of Daiwa. With a little over $100, a curado can really bomb it out there, without much of thumb work, as long as you set it right. 

I’ll definitely look into that, thank you. 

[Jaderose]

somewhat yes.  Maybe not the best comparison.  The difference I was referring to is refinement and features.  There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with inexpensive (notice I didn't say cheap).  I would happily fish with a Silver Max all day long.  My own gear is by no means top of the line.  More expensive gear is made of better materials.  Is more refined.  Is more suited to whatever job you buy it to do. and is more reliable.  With basic maintenance, it will last a life time.  a more expensive reel will have a better drag system and better, smoother bearings.  Not just MORE bearings.  I DO believe these benefits begin to become negligible the higher you go in price range.  To me, the difference between a $250 reel and a $400 reel are not enough to make me buy the more expensive one, unless it had something I need for a specific technique that I wanted to do.  The difference between a Silver Max and something like a Curado would be pretty significant, though.  Although I know nothing about DC reels, I know of NO conventional BC reel that does not require thumb usage even with the brakes set perfectly.  If you really don't want to learn how to properly use a BC reel, get spinning reel or a Zebco.  No shame in either.  Reels are tools.  They can used correctly or not.  

[Eric 26]

1 hour ago, Alden said:

I’ve heard good things about the Fuego. Did you ever use a cheaper reel before the Tatula? I’m curious if the performance is worth the price difference. 

I’ve used and still do to this day 2 of the cheapest reels on the market, a Kast king royal legend 2 and a piscifun Spark. While they work for what I use them for I would definitely say my Tatula CT is way more enjoyable and user friendly. I’m fortunate in that I own a Abu Revo X along with a bps carbonlite 2.0 and all of them are heads and shoulders better than my 2 cheap reels but as PhishLi pointed out there is no baitcast reel  that doesn’t require you controlling it. But in my opinion yes the $100.00 reels are definitely going to be easier to work with as far as adjusting and holding the adjustments for lure weight ranges.

[MN Fisher]

Keep a lookout as well - sometimes you can find deals. I got a used Pflueger Patriarch ($200 retail) for $70 by keeping my eyes open. Fantastic reel - wish I could find more of them at an affordable price.

 

I do have two Fuego CTs and they're excellent reels in the $100 class.

[Fishes in trees]

It is a trick - believe me when I say that guys with reels that cost more than yours do touch the spool from time to time ( like every cast )   I have a couple of Curado 150 DC reels and while they do help me cast farther with the same amount of effort, if I didn't stop the spool with my thumb, it would backlash.    I know I've heard of guys adjusting their reels so that the spool stops turning when the bait hits the water - but I don't believe it, I'd have to see it happen - several times in a row - before I thought that more than a parlor trick.

In my opinion, the primary rule of purchasing bait casting gear is to buy the best one that you can afford at the time - maybe going over budget $50 or so if necessary.  I'm more or less a bait casting reel bigot - so I'd recommend that you purchase Shimano.   Over the decades, I've had very few issues with Shimano reels.  I have strayed from Shimano a few times and for the most part - got what I paid for.

 

Your results may differ.   One of my fishing buddies is a big Lew's fan - primarily because of price - I've handled various Lew's reels at different tackle shops and while there isn't anything obviously wrong with them - the don't say SHIMANO on the side of them and that's enough for me.

 

[Alden]

39 minutes ago, Jaderose said:

somewhat yes.  Maybe not the best comparison.  The difference I was referring to is refinement and features.  There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with inexpensive (notice I didn't say cheap).  I would happily fish with a Silver Max all day long.  My own gear is by no means top of the line.  More expensive gear is made of better materials.  Is more refined.  Is more suited to whatever job you buy it to do. and is more reliable.  With basic maintenance, it will last a life time.  a more expensive reel will have a better drag system and better, smoother bearings.  Not just MORE bearings.  I DO believe these benefits begin to become negligible the higher you go in price range.  To me, the difference between a $250 reel and a $400 reel are not enough to make me buy the more expensive one, unless it had something I need for a specific technique that I wanted to do.  The difference between a Silver Max and something like a Curado would be pretty significant, though.  Although I know nothing about DC reels, I know of NO conventional BC reel that does not require thumb usage even with the brakes set perfectly.  If you really don't want to learn how to properly use a BC reel, get spinning reel or a Zebco.  No shame in either.  Reels are tools.  They can used correctly or not.  

Maybe I gave the wrong impression. I'm not looking to eliminate thumbing the reel. I understand that baitcasters are designed to be more actively controlled and I like that. A problem I frequently run into is backlash occurring shortly after I release the lure if I don't immediately apply slight pressure to the spool, even though I'm not casting all that hard. Naturally this decreases the distance I'm able to achieve. My understanding is that magnetic brakes help at the end of the cast but I find that to be the easiest part to control. My brother-in-law uses one that's much more expensive (don't know the model but he spends way more on gear than I do) and I never see him put his thumb on the reel until the very end of the cast. This is what I'm hoping to achieve and I wasn't sure if price would make a difference.

[Bankc]

How about the spool tension knob?  How do you have that set?  That will usually slow the reel down on startup better than the brakes.  

[Alden]

23 minutes ago, Fishes in trees said:

It is a trick - believe me when I say that guys with reels that cost more than yours do touch the spool from time to time ( like every cast )   I have a couple of Curado 150 DC reels and while they do help me cast farther with the same amount of effort, if I didn't stop the spool with my thumb, it would backlash.    I know I've heard of guys adjusting their reels so that the spool stops turning when the bait hits the water - but I don't believe it, I'd have to see it happen - several times in a row - before I thought that more than a parlor trick.

In my opinion, the primary rule of purchasing bait casting gear is to buy the best one that you can afford at the time - maybe going over budget $50 or so if necessary.  I'm more or less a bait casting reel bigot - so I'd recommend that you purchase Shimano.   Over the decades, I've had very few issues with Shimano reels.  I have strayed from Shimano a few times and for the most part - got what I paid for.

 

Your results may differ.   One of my fishing buddies is a big Lew's fan - primarily because of price - I've handled various Lew's reels at different tackle shops and while there isn't anything obviously wrong with them - the don't say SHIMANO on the side of them and that's enough for me.

 

My issue is backlash in the beginning/middle of the cast rather than the end. 

 

I'm also open to suggestions for any brand as my gear is an assortment of all different manufacturers.

1 minute ago, Bankc said:

How about the spool tension knob?  How do you have that set?  That will usually slow the reel down on startup better than the brakes.  

I have it set so the lure falls slowly and the spool doesn't overrun when it hits the ground.

[MN Fisher]

10 minutes ago, Alden said:

My issue is backlash in the beginning/middle of the cast rather than the end. 

Then you want a reel with Centrifugal brakes instead of/in addition to Magnetics. Lews has reels in the $130-$150 range that are dual braking...including the new KVD reels.

 

11 minutes ago, Alden said:

I have it set so the lure falls slowly and the spool doesn't overrun when it hits the ground.

That's how I have mine set.

[Bankc]

You might try setting it a little tighter with lighter lures, so the lure doesn't fall until you shake the rod, but then once it gets started, it falls on it's own.  

 

Most of my reels allow me to set the spool tension like what you have there.  But I do have an older reel that especially prone to backlash in the middle of the cast, like you're experiencing, that requires more spool tension than normal.  But with a little extra spool tension, it does alright. 

 

Also, make sure you're making smooth casts.  When you try too hard to cast the lure, you can get backlashes at the beginning of the cast.  It needs to be smooth, and you have to let the rod do the work.  Part of it is making sure the rod loads properly and doesn't release too early or too late.  If it does, then you're probably gonna backlash.  

[Alden]

11 minutes ago, Bankc said:

You might try setting it a little tighter with lighter lures, so the lure doesn't fall until you shake the rod, but then once it gets started, it falls on it's own.  

 

Most of my reels allow me to set the spool tension like what you have there.  But I do have an older reel that especially prone to backlash in the middle of the cast, like you're experiencing, that requires more spool tension than normal.  But with a little extra spool tension, it does alright. 

 

Also, make sure you're making smooth casts.  When you try too hard to cast the lure, you can get backlashes at the beginning of the cast.  It needs to be smooth, and you have to let the rod do the work.  Part of it is making sure the rod loads properly and doesn't release too early or too late.  If it does, then you're probably gonna backlash.  

 

11 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

Then you want a reel with Centrifugal brakes instead of/in addition to Magnetics. Lews has reels in the $130-$150 range that are dual braking...including the new KVD reels.

 

That's how I have mine set.

Good to know, thanks. 

11 minutes ago, Bankc said:

You might try setting it a little tighter with lighter lures, so the lure doesn't fall until you shake the rod, but then once it gets started, it falls on it's own.  

 

Most of my reels allow me to set the spool tension like what you have there.  But I do have an older reel that especially prone to backlash in the middle of the cast, like you're experiencing, that requires more spool tension than normal.  But with a little extra spool tension, it does alright. 

 

Also, make sure you're making smooth casts.  When you try too hard to cast the lure, you can get backlashes at the beginning of the cast.  It needs to be smooth, and you have to let the rod do the work.  Part of it is making sure the rod loads properly and doesn't release too early or too late.  If it does, then you're probably gonna backlash.  

I appreciate the advice. 

[huZZah]

27 minutes ago, Alden said:

My issue is backlash in the beginning/middle of the cast rather than the end. 

Usually means you’re trying to hard to cast “far.”  It happens to me, and I reflect on it while I untangle my bird nest. Whipping the rod at the end of cast. 
 

 

27 minutes ago, Alden said:

28 minutes ago, Bankc said:

 

I have it set so the lure falls slowly and the spool doesn't overrun when it hits the ground.

Depending on lure weight and wind, I often have to tighten the spool to where I have to give it a shake before it will even slowly fall. Not unusual. 
 

I have 3 kastking bcs that were $50, $60, and $70. The $60 one “jaws” or whatever is by far the best of the three. But the $70 is my least fav. Feels cheaper than the others.
I also have a shimano slx I got clearance at acedemy for $80. Love it.  But it still requires proper adjustment and my thumb. And I wouldn’t say it’s beyond superior to my kastking jaws. Just different. Although I’ll admit I enjoy using it more. 
 

But there are also days I take all spinning cause I just don’t want the headache.