At a loss…knot breakage

[lynxcat]

I lost two sizable fish tonight on back to back hooksets from line breakage. Here is the situation…because the breakage happened on different bait types. 
 

30 lb PowerPro Superslick v2….put on the reel a couple weeks ago.

MH Moderate rod

Fishing from bank. No sharp rocks in the area.

 

#1 I had a 17lb FC leader (Invizx) tied to braid and was fishing a swim jig. Set the hook and I thought the rod had broken…I’ve never had such an awkward snap back. From the feel, I don’t believe the break happened on the knot or the FC to braid knot. It felt like it happened on the actual braid itself which is shocking for 30lb braid. Up to this point in my life, I don’t think I’ve ever snapped 30 lb braid. Until…

 

#2 I re-tie. Instead switch to a Jackhammer and no leader. Straight braid. Double check Palomar knot and it looks and feel strong. Next bite….set hook and AGAIN it breaks off! 
 

Things I’ve thought through….

1. I’ve inspected every guide eye and reel eye to see if there is something creating abrasion that weakened the line. I’m not seeing any issues here. 
2. Could the bites be from alligator gars (I’ve seen them but haven’t caught one before) and the line is cutting on teeth? This feels improbable.

3. Adjust my hook set? I’m 6’4 240…so I can definitely create some torque even on what I consider my standard hook set. I didn’t feel like either of these situations was me really laying into the hook set. 

4. Is the line bad? I inspected the line that’s left on the reel and did find one knick randomly. After both breaks, feel like I’ve lost a notable amount of line (which makes me think it’s not breakage at the knot?). 
 

What am I missing here? Over $20 of baits lost but more annoyed by the fish that got away. 
 

 

[A-Jay]

Perhaps consider using a FC mainline and ditch the braid.

What do you have to lose ? 

Except perhaps more bass.

I recommend Seaguar InvisX & Tatsu - 15 or 17 should do you just fine.

Fish Hard

A-Jay

 

[Boomstick]

I'm wondering if your line was dragged over rocks or even possibly wood and has became weak perhaps. Rocks do a number on braid, so if you're dragging it over rocks, fluorocarbon tends to fare better.

 

I started using Daiwa J-Fluoro Samurai this year. While I can't give a full season review yet, it handles exceptionally well so I would say it's worth trying out. If you hit ebay at the right time, you can get it as low as $22 as well.

[jbsoonerfan]

Braid is getting damaged somehow. Check your guides with a Q-Tip.

[WRB]

Palomar is a poor choice for braid and twisted a poor knot.

Tom

[FishTank]

Are you setting the hook on slack line?

[Gnarwhal]

51 minutes ago, WRB said:

Palomar is a poor choice for braid and twisted a poor knot.

Tom

I thought the Palomar and double Palomar were two of the best braid to lure/hook choices?

 

To the OP, where was the braid purchased?

[islandbass]

Sorry for those losses. 
 

How often do you check for wear and tear or both your leader and main lines? Also, generally speaking fc isn’t as resilient as mono. Huge hook sets and snags might have stretched the fc beyond its ability to rebound back. 
 

if you know with reasonable certainty both were in good shape, then perhaps a toothy creature is a likely possibility. I always inspect where the break happens but sometimes it reveals a reason. 
 

Given what you described I best guess it at a toothy fish. Why else would the line have broken so easily if all things were good?

[lynxcat]

I check my line after every fish (typically was catching them every 15 minutes or so). I had retied the FC shortly before that breakoff because I had caught 4 2lbers on it and pulled a couple through some grass. 
 

Checking order history, bought the line from Tacklewarehouse....so should be authentic. 
 

I rechecked the guides with a Q tip as another suggested and nothing that caught my eye as off. 
 

Decided to cut out any line that had an abrasion and feel good about the knots tied. If it breaks again, then I’ll toss the line. 

[GetFishorDieTryin]

4 hours ago, Gnarwhal said:

I thought the Palomar and double Palomar were two of the best braid to lure/hook choices?

They are, I've used them on fish that fish that pull way harder then a LMB/SMB, Albies, Slammer Blues, Black Drum never had 1 slip in nearly 20 years of using them.

Make sure to check the top 3 guides really well with a cotton ball or Q tip.  If you still cant find anything put a reel on the rod with light mono and see put load on that rod from every angle you can and to see if you can damage the line.

[bulldog1935]

He never described what leader knot broke.  

Double Uni is easy to tie, and single Uni easy to tie on lures.  But both create single bends that can break at the lure eye, and with the double uni joint, the smaller line can cut through the thicker line.  

 

My tough-as-nails braid to fluoro uses improved Allbright  for the joint, a surgeon's loop in the fluoro business end -  then loop on micro snap swivel for spinning or paper clip for baitcast.  Yeah, this is a well-rolled Allbright, and sealed with CA.  

Titanium wire bite trace for toothy fish, but shows the micro swivel looped-on.  

Another yeah, micro barrel swivels don't get the nod on this forum, but they're tiny, and handle spinner twist.  

 

Braid has no shock resistance, and a stretchy leader gives you some shock allowance - Blue Label is my favorite leader.  I've broken off too many 30" Alaska rainbows on high-strength fluoro knots.  

[Jaderose]

9 hours ago, WRB said:

Palomar is a poor choice for braid and twisted a poor knot.

Tom

I respectfully disagree.  I've never had a Palomar fail with braid.  

[Glenn]

Another reason why I don't use leaders.

[Deleted account]

4 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

high-strength fluoro knots.  

And unicorns...

[bulldog1935]

oh you see them, it takes them awhile even to charge back across the Kenai, and they get a second wind when they see you.  At deep pools on the Russian, may see a 40-lb king loitering, looking like a parked bus.  

Self guiding on the Russian in September, landed 24 - every one the size of this dolly - hooked up every 3rd cast.  

In September, you kick salmon carcasses to step into the river, and the black slate bottom is pink with eggs - the astounding part is they will eat your plastic bead with so much food in the water.  

I was fished out by 2pm and retreated to the fire pit, a cognac and stogie.  

[lynxcat]

The FC leader breakage is rare for me and recognize it is a risk of adding another weak spot between me and the fish. 
 

I’m super confused on how I broke off 30lb braid directly tied to a Chatterbait with a moderate action rod. I’ve never had that kind of failure so it happening minutes after the prior failure makes me think it’s something more structural to the setup (either bad line or something creating abrasion unknowingly). 

[WRB]

4 hours ago, Jaderose said:

I respectfully disagree.  I've never had a Palomar fail with braid.  

Palomar knot can slip if the line is small diameter line tied to larger diameter wire or lure eye. The reason is the Palomar knot isn’t self clinching by the main line. Double Palomar helps solves that issue. 

Peace,

Tom

[5by3]

4 hours ago, Jaderose said:

I respectfully disagree.  I've never had a Palomar fail with braid.  

Agreed. I think a lot of pros would agree with you as well.

[lynxcat]

Alright, just happened a third time where the braid just snapped randomly. Probably a 2lb fish because it jumped and threw the jig after the break ?

 

I keep inspecting the rod but every eye looks normal...

[Deleted account]

Not so much in bass fishing, but regardless of brand, I have seen quite a bit of more "mystery breaks" on 30 lb than 40 lb braid. That being said, sounds like in the OP's case, the line is defective or compromised in some way. I would switch out reels to a different rod and tie something worth loosing to both to help diagnose. Small nicks in light braid can really weaken it, (you'd think it was fluoro)...  

[A-Jay]

15 hours ago, A-Jay said:

Perhaps consider using a FC mainline and ditch the braid.

What do you have to lose ? 

Except perhaps more bass.

I recommend Seaguar InvisX & Tatsu - 15 or 17 should do you just fine.

Fish Hard

A-Jay

 

You'll get here eventually . . .

A-Jay

[lynxcat]

I much prefer the sensitivity and castability of braid...swapped out the line and will get back on the bus again ?

[A-Jay]

1 hour ago, lynxcat said:

I much prefer the sensitivity and castability of braid...swapped out the line and will get back on the bus again ?

I hear you and I get it.

Making a great presentation and then being able to 'feel' the strike

of that potential New Personal best bass is alluring for sure. 

However for me, the repeated unexplained & untimely line failures trump that.

btw - I went through the same thing a couple of different times.

Started with FC when it first came out.

And then again with braid & leaders, just like you've explained here.

Ended up going back to a quality FC and haven't looked back.

Still use braid & leader on spinning gear, quite successfully I might add.

However I rarely place much 'pressure' on the tackle like I have a tendency to do with casting gear.

So the mysterious line failures are a rarity.

Good Luck

FishHard

A-Jay

 

 

 

[Michigander]

3 hours ago, lynxcat said:

Alright, just happened a third time where the braid just snapped randomly. Probably a 2lb fish because it jumped and threw the jig after the break ?

 

I keep inspecting the rod but every eye looks normal...

Time to ditch that braid! If a different spool has the same behavior, it's likely the rod and/or reel.

[WRB]

Describe your hook set technique.

Tom