Braid-to-fluoro leader knot keeps busting at the level guide

[somefishingdude]

I am having a recurring problem where the braid-to-leader knot keeps busting at the level guide when casting. I am aiming for a longer leader because I am fishing a soft-plastic swimbait in clear water. IMO, 5-6ft leader doesn't seem to be long enough, so I go for ~20ft leader; let me know what you think about this assumption. Here is what I'm doing and what's failing:

Braid #: 40

Fluoro #: 15

Knots (both failed): FG, Alberto

Weight of lure: ~1/4oz

Casting: Baitcasting reel - blast as hard as I can from the bank to reach deep water

 

Ever since the braid-to-fluoro knot has been traveling through the level guide, I've been getting failures. Let me know what you think.

Moreover, I am looking to respool my reel. Would it be better to go with lighter braid and leader, or straight fluoro / copolymer?

[Deleted account]

Patient: Doctor, my knot keeps busting when it goes through the level wind.

Doctor: Don't make your knot go through the level wind, oh and you only have three months to live assuming you can pay me in full by then...

[Smokinal]

I run braid/fluoro on all my setups too; I keep the leader rod length so that doesn't happen. 

Even in crystal clear water, a 6' leader is long enough. They're paying attention to the bait, not line that's 6' from the bait.

 

If you must have 20', you could try the blood knot seen here:

https://www.animatedknots.com/blood-knot

 

 

[Happybeerbuzz]

Even with a FG knot 40#/15# is a decent size knot to wind into the spool.  With that said, I regularly wind 30#/20# into the spools  of my baitcasters.  I never put 100% into my casts though.  I take a golf swing mentality and probably use 70% or less on every cast. 

 

Have you considered a different reel?  

[David 7]

I've noticed that so many people use a fluoro leader on their braided line. Nothing wrong with that, and can imagine that the visibility factor of the line may be somewhat of a benefit. My question is, doesn't this reduce the hook setting strength/ advantage that comes with using braided line?

[Darth-Baiter]

17 minutes ago, David 7 said:

I've noticed that so many people use a fluoro leader on their braided line. Nothing wrong with that, and can imagine that the visibility factor of the line may be somewhat of a benefit. My question is, doesn't this reduce the hook setting strength/ advantage that comes with using braided line?

Great question.  But I see no real degradation of my hook sets.  Stretch or elongation is partially a function of original length.  The leaders relatively short length to begin with offers very little stretch. 

[TnRiver46]

Switch to mono and eliminate all your worries. Not just the leader, the entire spool 

[David 7]

1 minute ago, Darth-Baiter said:

Great question.  But I see no real degradation of my hook sets.  Stretch or elongation is partially a function of original length.  The leaders relatively short length to begin with offers very little stretch. 

 

I went out on the Great Sacandaga (Fulton County NY) on Monday and lost quite a few fish, but wasn't quite sure why. I was wacky rigging some Yamamoto's with very light tackle, was using circle hooks, and 6lb fluoro. Think it may have been a combination of factors, but next time will be using my Ugly Stick and 15 lb braided line. Think it was my soft rod tip and circle hooks that were the culprits. All the bites were small mouths, would get them on the hook and then they would throw it, even after I thought I set the hook.

[Michigander]

I never recommend having the knot enter the reel. 

31 minutes ago, David 7 said:

My question is, doesn't this reduce the hook setting strength/ advantage that comes with using braided line?

Not in any meaningful way.

[WRB]

What reel?

[Tim Kelly]

The new Tatula 300 size is supposed to have a larger gapped T wing levelwind. I imagine that might be an answer if the leader knot will wind back through it OK. Might also be worth spending a bit more time practising your FG knot finishing, as it really shouldn't come undone even passing through a levelwind.

[Bubba 460]

Try a blood knot with at least nine wraps each. But if the level guide does not move on the cast an it is set to one side or the other on the cast , that could cause extra wear. Try setting the level guide in the center before each cast and see if that helps. Or if could be a reel discrepancy not addressed properly for casting a knot repeatedly the  level guide?

[Big Hands]

I use #30 braid with an 8 or 10 lb leader with a 7-wrap Alberto knot on Daiwa baitcasters that have the T-Wing level wind. The knot will be considerably smaller with that rather than #40 with a 15 lb leader, and even smaller if you can manage to use an FG knot.

 

Between 15 lb line doubled over and trying to go smoothly through the level wind and the casting rod guides (some of which can be pretty small) it's probably beating the crap out of that knot compared to what it would with lighter line (especially if you used a lighter leader).

[somefishingdude]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

What reel?

That'd be the SLX DC 7.4:1

[WRB]

56 minutes ago, somefishingdude said:

That'd be the SLX DC 7.4:1

The reason I asked was early Daiwa Tatula reels T wing narrow line guide had some edges that caused wear to braid on the retrieve.

Other wanting the leader knot on the reel spool while landing fish to reduce knot failure, no reason to use a leader longer then your rod. The only advantage to FC line is it’s low drag going through water and weight=allows it to sink.

1/4 oz swimbait is small no reason to use braid with leader imo.

Sunline Armillo 13 lb mono is good casting line only .012D, 15 lb is .0126D. Eliminate the leader knot.

Tom

[somefishingdude]

28 minutes ago, WRB said:

The reason I asked was early Daiwa Tatula reels T wing narrow line guide had some edges that caused wear to braid on the retrieve.

Other wanting the leader knot on the reel spool while landing fish to reduce knot failure, no reason to use a leader longer then your rod. The only advantage to FC line is it’s low drag going through water and weight=allows it to sink.

1/4 oz swimbait is small no reason to use braid with leader imo.

Sunline Armillo 13 lb mono is good casting line only .012D, 15 lb is .0126D. Eliminate the leader knot.

Tom

Great, thanks Tom - really appreciate your insight.

[softwateronly]

I use braid to leader and wind it through and onto the reel.  My FG knot lasts longest, ie I cut it,  when the wrap is held w/ 2 half hitches, pulled tight, snip the floro/mono as close as possible, 2 more half hitches, and then a 4 turn rizzuto (sp) finish, trim and a quick burn on the braid.  When I do it correctly, it has never failed.  When the floro or mono tag pokes through in any way, failure is possible and I retie properly.

 

This is admittedly is a lot of work, I just personally have fallen in love with combining braid and mono or braid and floro depending on what I'm doing.

 

I have shimanos except for 1 Tat 200 and 1 Tat 300.  The 300 I treat the same as my shimanos, the 200 gets no leader or 1 rod length only.

 

scott

[billmac]

I think a lot of people use braid to fluoro as an economic measure, rather than a strategic one.  That's why I do it.  However I don't really trust the knot, and my rods have very small guides.  So I spool my reel up with braid, and then tie on a 20-30 yard fluoro leader.  My knot never leaves the reel.

[papajoe222]

7 hours ago, David 7 said:

 

 Think it was my soft rod tip and circle hooks that were the culprits. All the bites were small mouths, would get them on the hook and then they would throw it, even after I thought I set the hook.

  You don't set the hook when using circle hooks, you just reel and the hook point  turns up into the upper lip as the eye exits the fish's mouth. When you do a normal hook set, it doesn't allow time for that to happen. 

  OP,If your concern is the visibility of the braid, I don't understand why you would use it and not go straight fluoro. Quality fluorocarbon is cheaper than quality braid and you'd eliminate the knot problem. On a side note, 15lb. fluoro is too heavy for a .25oz. lure. It will inhibit the lure's built in action. 10lb. or 12.lb is more than strong enough for something that size, unless, of course, you're fishing heavy vegetation and then there is no need for a line with low visibility. 

[txchaser]

IMO if you seriously do need a leader that long, and distance is that important, a spinning reel is a better choice. 

[GreenPig]

I never allow a connection knot to enter my baitcasters guide and catch plenty of fish on lakes with 10' of visibility. 

[Tim Kelly]

2 hours ago, txchaser said:

IMO if you seriously do need a leader that long, and distance is that important, a spinning reel is a better choice. 

For a 1/4oz lure, especially in clear water where you're worried about fish seeing the line, I'd use a spinning outfit with 10 braid and a 10-12lb leader.  Everything will be better and the leader can be as long as you like.

[Dwight Hottle]

All connection knots weaken with friction from hitting guides or level wind. So just eliminate the problem by using straight braid or straight mono. Give each a try & chose the one you like best.