I'm confused

[ericw55anddogrufie]

Recently I was gifted a St. Croix 6'10" Avid spin casting rod. I'm still looking for a good reel for this rod. I went to the local tackle shop today and spoke to the salesperson regarding what they had available and line type i.e. monofilament, braid, flourocarbon etc. 

 

 

Well I opened up a can of worms that left me feeling like I am an idiot and need to learn how to fish and tie knots after 40 years. I'm 53 years old.

 

I fished salt water in Cape Coral, Fl. I fished salt water in Corpus Cristi, TX, fresh water in Rio Grande, Jamaica, Susquehanna fresh water in PA etc!

I asked a simple question.....I was gifted this St. Croix Avid 6'10" rod, I need a reel for it I think 2500 - 300 and I would like to consider using braid.

 

Immediately I was asked....what type of knots can you tie to a leader? I responded that I can tie a uni knot, and a slip knot. 

The reply I received was that is not good enough so I said...................I'm willing to learn. I've seen videos of how to tie polymer knot. Is that sufficient?  and the salesperson talked to another customer and left his assistant ring me out with two packs of split shots that I purchased for slip bobber rigs. 

 

So apparently I need a minimum of an Associates Degree in fishing 101, $500 in camoflauge garments,  a Bachelors Degree in knot tying and 14 different style of hats in order to be successful at using braided line for the first time. I just thought it would be a new style, technique and offer a new experience but apparently I am not smart enough to accomplish this because I am a customer that entered a shop wearing a collared shirt upon leaving my place of employment. My apology I guess?

 

Can you make some reccomendations?  I am willing to learn. I don't know everything. Technology even in fishing changes over time just like automobiles.  

[jbsoonerfan]

Shimano Vanford 2500. No idea the power of the rod or intended use so I can't recommend a line. Sounds like the guy was actually trying to be helpful instead of just handing you a reel and a spool of line and saying "here you go".

[bulldog1935]

30-somethings in tackle stores are like 30-somethings in bicycle shops (kayak shops) - they're all boned up on big talk, all the important buzzword currency, and how to spend your money.  

He wouldn't have a clue how to catch a fish in Cape Coral or Upper Laguna Madre.  

 

[ericw55anddogrufie]

Yes I understand sir. It's like it makes him feel good to talk to me and make me feel inferior. He was about 30 I'm glad I walked and I will not go back again.

 

Cape Coral Canal fishing in my from yard was fun! I even used tinned cat food for bait and had success

[jimmyjoe]

   Let's start at the beginning:

 

   1) I take that when you say "spin casting", you mean a spinning rod, correct?

   2) The reason I ask is that there is no 6'-10" rod in the Avid or Avid-X series that I know of, either spinning or casting. There are some 6'-09" and 6'-08" spinning (and casting) rods, either M/XF or ML/XF.  These are good for bottom contact if you wish to use them that way.

   3) When you fished in these other places, did you use a leader? Which knot did you use to attach the leader? The knot you used might be applicable for braid-to-leader knots.

   4) If you did NOT use a leader before, look up a video on uni-to-uni leader knot. I say "video" because it's probably clearer. You said that you already know the uni knot, so it should be simpler for you than some of the other weird knots.

   5) What sort of fishing have you done before? This might be a rod that brings you into new techniques. Or are you deliberately looking for new and different techniques?

   6) Do you plan to fish from a boat or shore?

 

   Whether you plan to fish South or North, there are many people here who are willing and able to help you. All you have to do is ask questions. As I have told people before, "If they can help me, they can help you!"   ?         jj

 

P.S. - My personal opinion (and that's all it is) is to use a metal reel when using braid. Might be something to consider.

[jbsoonerfan]

11 minutes ago, ericw55anddogrufie said:

Yes I understand sir. It's like it makes him feel good to talk to me and make me feel inferior. He was about 30 I'm glad I walked and I will not go back again.

 

Cape Coral Canal fishing in my from yard was fun! I even used tinned cat food for bait and had success

Maybe he just didn't understand you. Your first post on this thread is very hard to understand and makes it difficult to help.

[evo2s197]

My advice is to not take advice from 99% of people at tackle shops, most don't know their butt from a hole in the ground, and they think they are experts at whatever subject you have questions about.

 

A uni-knot or blood knot is sufficient for the majority of braid to leader connections in regards to bass fishing.

 

I myself use blood knots and have never had one braid to leader fail.

 

Palomar knot, trilene knot, snell knot  and rapala knot are the only knots you need to know for the majority of lure or hook connections in Freshwater.

[bulldog1935]

If you went to Tackle Town in Rockport or Roys in Corpus, you would have left with a loaded reel, leader tied, useful terminal hardware, maybe lures, and ready to fish.  

They would have made you feel important, and probably taught you something without telling you they were teaching you.  

 

I did ok reading between the lines.  As soon as you said 2500, I knew you were talking about spinning tackle.  

 

My leader knot is (improved) Allbright, but I've been tying them to shoot through fly rod snake guides for 40 years.  

[jimmyjoe]

1 minute ago, bulldog1935 said:

If you went to Tackle Town in Rockport or Roys in Corpus, you would have left with a loaded reel, leader tied, useful terminal hardware, maybe lures, and ready to fish.  

I did ok reading between the lines.  As soon as you said 2500, I knew you were talking about spinning tackle.  

 

   Good eyes, @bulldog1935!  I got tripped up by my scanning habits again!  ?      jj

[ericw55anddogrufie]

Yes I am using spinning tackle. I have only used a spin casting rod/rig from a boat in the Gulf years ago. All I wan to know is this:

 

Do I need a degree to use braided line, casting from the shore using Senko, Ned Rigs or live minnows?

 

I wanted to try a new type of line because I have been told it is sensitive. 

 

And yes I have tied leader line many times. I have even used steel leaders when target fishing in the Susquehanna River for Muskellelunge, Pike and Walleye.

 

evos2s917 thanks:) 

I apologize the rod length is 6'9".

[GetFishorDieTryin]

Thats just a condescending way of suggesting braid.  Its not an age thing, its a personality trait.  Around here the vast majority of small tackle shop owners need the shorebound bennys and yuppies to feel like they're getting the hookup so they drop more $ because its a loong winter if you dont work on bows.  Its common at Cabelas/BPS, Dicks and even TD every now and then, the ignorant small shop owners here have either closed or are smart enough not to get into prolonged conversation.  

[jbsoonerfan]

15 lb braid to a 6 or 8 lb leader depending on the diameter of your leader.

[bulldog1935]

The only thing you really need to know to fish braid is to use your bail manually.  

Braid wind knots are impossible, and manual bail technique will keep you from cutting out expensive pieces of braid.  

Keep your spare hand close to the reel during your cast, feather the line with your fingertips at the end of your cast, close the bail with that spare hand instead of using the crank-auto-bail close.  

Turn with the rod to take up slack before you begin retrieve.  

Never a wind knot.  

 

 

It also helps to buy a reel with a shallow spool - they lay thin braid much nicer.  

Also, if you tie your braid to the spool using arbor knot, put the thinnest tape you can find on the first wrap to keep the line from slipping on the spool.  

[ericw55anddogrufie]

I actually went fishing on the bridge at Matlacha for sheepshead often I lived in SE cape . I didn't go to Roys  but  did go to the Bait Station in North Ft. Myers. I worked in Ft Myers at the time and it was on my way home

 

[Michigander]

Main question is what is your budget for a reel?

[jimmyjoe]

  So you know leader knots, you're fishing from shore, and you want to use bottom contact techniques and live bait.

   Other than the live bait, you're fishing the same way I did (until recently).

   Yes, braid is sensitive .... on tight line. If you fish slack line, braid is not sensitive. It has no "body" to pipeline vibration to the fisherman. So for slack line techniques, I would not suggest braid. I would suggest nylon (or fluorocarbon).

   Braid also has very  little stretch .... so little, in fact, that some fishermen don't like it just for that reason. If you react too quickly, you can pull the bait (and the hook) right out of the fish's mouth.

   But I think it's worth your time and curiosity to try braid. You may not like it, but you'll only know for sure after you've used it. And you might even like it. Many people do.

 

   If you wish to use a 2500 size reel (as has been pointed out to me  ?) you will probably want to try braids with 6, 7 or 8 mil diameter (.006, .007 or .008). Choosing braid by diameter, the casting characteristics are much more consistent than choosing by test. I would buy product from well-known, reliable companies, and I would avoid companies that are boutique, or have not been in business very long, or push product that is alarmingly cheaper than competitors. The old saw is, "You get what you pay for."

   You might also consider hi-viz lines.

 

   Hope this helps!         jj

 

P.S. - I use the Shimano Stradic 2500  size reel. Very smooth, quite strong and very reliable. The current model is Stradic 2500FL. Some people like the Daiwa BG2500, which is cheaper. @bulldog1935 can give you advice about some Tica reels from overseas, if you wish to go that route. He seems to like them quite a bit. All of these are metal, whereas the Vanford that @jbsoonerfan mentioned is composite, and therefore much lighter. That may or may not be important to you.

I'm sure other fishermen who use braid will be along soon and give you their advice on other reels to consider.

 

  

[islandbass]

I have broken the knots I use into 2 categories:

 

1) Knots to join line to lure.

I use the palomar and the improved clinch knot primarily. It the lure is small enough, I will use the palomar knot because it is so easy to tie and is pretty strong. When lures get larger I don’t like to create such a big loop in the palomar just to accommodate the lure so I’ll use the improved clinch (ICK henceforth) knot. I’ll also use the ICK when I tie on spinnerbaits and jigs because sometimes the skirt material gets in the way of my clumsy hands. The ICK is simpler for these lure types. 
2) Knots to join lines.

I use the Albright primarily because it works regardless of the difference in the diameters of the two lines. I will occasionally use the double uni but it seems every time I memorize it at home. I forget it by the time I’m on the water. 
 

I can and have used other knots for other species but these 3 can cover all the bases for bass. 
 

If this is the first time you’re using braid, please keep in mind it’s trait of nearly now stretch on your hook set. The stories of yanking lures out of the bass’ mouth are real and I have personally experienced it. 
 

Braid is also an excellent line choice for float fish. 
 

Any fishing degrees lined up in your future will be earned here and via experience on the water. The professors on this forum are experts in their fields. By professor I mean folks here who have so much knowledge that they’ve forgotten more than I’ve learned, lol, and they willing share their knowledge here. 

[Deleted account]

7 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

30-somethings in tackle stores are like 30-somethings in bicycle shops (kayak shops) - they're all boned up on big talk, all the important buzzword currency, and how to spend your money.  

He wouldn't have a clue how to catch a fish in Cape Coral or Upper Laguna Madre.  

LMAO.

Funny you would mention bikes, and you are right, it's not sport specific, the "experts" abound. They used to annoy me, now it's mostly entertaining. I coined the phrase "eminently confident, utterly incapable" at the bike shop a while ago. The look on the guy's face who thought he could straighten his derailleur hanger cause he saw how to do it online was priceless as he muttered "it shouldn't have broken off" over and over. We test mechanics for hire by giving them a bike (an inexpensive one) to build and pop some corn. The work stands are double sided, so I usually just look at my tech, and he gives me a nod, a shake, or a shrug. 

 

OP, uni to uni will work fine. Learn to tie something else or not. Fishing is fishing.

[bulldog1935]

Exactly Right - it's all fishing, and we should enjoy it the way we did as kids.  

The very best fishers I've ever known and fished with, Frank Smethurst, Kevin Townsend, Dave Whitlock, Gary Borger, Billy Trimble - what makes them infectious, you stick a rod in their hands, and they turn into kids. 

What makes them wizards is not their ability to complicate fishing, but their ability to simplify it.  

[Deleted account]

7 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

I did ok reading between the lines.  As soon as you said 2500, I knew you were talking about spinning tackle.  

Paraphrasing from a "communication style" powerpoint slide:

"-Transactional and literal, unlikely to carry a thought or deduction from one subject to another. predisposed to ciloing or  stove piping concepts."

 

I actually stuck up for the youth, and pointed out that ciloing isn't a word.

It really is like 2 languages, NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!

[Jaderose]

Lol.  Relax, ya old Codger.  (we're exactly the same age).  You know how to fish.  Get yourself a reel you like ( I still love my Pflueger President after about 10 years), spool it up with Sufix 832 (I like about 8-12 lbs).  Tie on a Gamakatsu 3/0 EWG with or without a bullet weight in front of it with a Palomar knot.  Throw a Senko or Stik-O on it if weightless.  If you put the weight on it, you can go cheaper with a Yum Dinger or you can use a tube, craw, or anything else you like.  Forget the leader.  Go fish.

 

P.S.  I feel the same way when people start talking about things like what cameras they use to film their fishing.  My eyes glaze over and I'm immediately disinterested.  I'm not shooting a movie here and I cannot imagine that anyone is interested in watching me fish on youtube.  But hey!  You do you!

[BrianMDTX]

I use this knot to tie 6 lb mono leader to 20 lb Sufix 832 braid. Reel is a Daiwa Revros LT2500 on a Fenwick HMX 66M-FS-2 rod. It’s very easy to tie and has not failed me yet. It goes through my guides well. They aren’t micro guides, though. 

 

 

[ironbjorn]

9 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

30-somethings in tackle stores are like 30-somethings in bicycle shops (kayak shops) - they're all boned up on big talk, all the important buzzword currency, and how to spend your money.  

He wouldn't have a clue how to catch a fish in Cape Coral or Upper Laguna Madre.  

 

Randy Blaukat recently put out a video discussing why professional bass anglers fall off the map as they get older. It's a mixture of the natural aging process and reluctance to change and adapt, among other things. It's a younger man's game. 30s and 40s are the height of their careers.

 

A 30 something bass angler wouldn't even care to catch this fish.

[bulldog1935]

It doesn't take much math from the economics of pro bass fishing to get to pro bass fishers aren't working in tackle stores.  

 

The best 30-something fisherman I know comments that all his fishing friends are 60-somethings.  

Reading tides, wind and water isn't something you can do on Lowrance.  

[Hulkster]

there is also no law that says you have to use braid in the first place. I still like a good quality mono like Sufix Siege.