Palomar knot troubleshooting

[RenzokukenFisher]

So for the past month I have been breaking off repeatedly with a palomar knot. Many times when i even just test the knot with my hands it breaks. The line i'm using is 15-20lb maxima ultragreen. Could it be the line is just getting old? I've had it over a year and it comes along in my backpack in the cold of winter and heat of summer. I always wet my knots. I tighten mainline before the tag end so could that be it? I hunt big bass and I lost 2 5+ pound fish nightfishing today because of it and lost my favorite spook hahaha. Really trying to get to the bottom if this, thank you.

[walleyecrazy]

2 things that I can think of 1- yes I would probably change out that line. 2- watch to make sure the line is not crossing itself through the eye of the hook. This tends to lead to the knot breaking in my experience. 

[lo n slo]

get some new line

[BrianMDTX]

2 hours ago, walleyecrazy said:

2 things that I can think of 1- yes I would probably change out that line. 2- watch to make sure the line is not crossing itself through the eye of the hook. This tends to lead to the knot breaking in my experience. 

Palomars always seem to want to catch under the end of the hook eye if you’re not careful, which can nick the line and weaken it. But this sounds more like the line needs replacing. 

[GaryH]

Line needs replacing. 

[Catt]

6 hours ago, RenzokukenFisher said:

I tighten mainline before the tag end so could that be it?

 

If your line has not crossed you should be able to pull both ends at the same time with very little pressure.

 

I always cinch it tight by pulling the tag end first, pulling the main line first will occasionally cause a little curly q.

[FryDog62]

Catt is right, be sure not to cross the line as you tighten it... it should cinch up easily and uniformly. 

 

That being said, I did switch to the double shindo knot 2 years ago and it has been flawless, maybe strongest knot overall. It also eliminates the big loop you have to pass the lure through on the Palomar - which for a single hook isn't a big deal, but with a larger lure like a chatterbait, jerkbait, etc is a pain when you're out in the wind/waves trying to tie and not get all the hooks tangled when passing through the loop. 

[Boomstick]

That line is too old.

[CrankFate]

I’d get rid of the line and follow that up with getting rid of the knot. 

[MN Fisher]

12 minutes ago, CrankFate said:

I’d get rid of the line

Ya - some co-polys can last a couple years of average use, but like mono - most can't.

 

13 minutes ago, CrankFate said:

follow that up with getting rid of the knot. 

I've never used a Palomar - still sticking with my 'Multifile Knoten' (gotta come up with an English name for that) as it's yet to fail me.

[Deleted account]

Sounds like the line has gone bad. Maxima isn't too fuzzy with knots. Are you using the same lure/hook? Sometimes there can be a burr or edge on the tie that causes what you are describing. 

[CrankFate]

42 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

I've never used a Palomar - still sticking with my 'Multifile Knoten' (gotta come up with an English name for that) as it's yet to fail me.

I agree. I have used it, but there are so many other dependable knots out there.

I don’t like the way baits with a heavier weighted head tend to swing or pendulum on the knot. I think it wears on the line and makes it break easier at the knot. Because it never grips the eye like other knots do. It is most noticeable with fluoro. I also think that the knot might appear strong in pull tests and machine tests, but it fails when a very hard fast shock is applied. 

[MN Fisher]

Just now, CrankFate said:

I agree. I have used it, but there are so many better knots out there.

I don’t like the way baits with a heavier weighted head tend to swing or pendulum on the knot. I think it wears on the line and makes it break easier at the knot. Because it never grips the eye like other knots do. It is most noticeable with fluoro. I also think that the knot might appear strong in pull tests and machine tests, but it fails when a very hard fast shock is applied. 

I like the M-K for a few reasons

 

Quick to tie - it's not much different than a Uni

Double line through the eye

No hard kinks anywhere

Hard to cross the line - important for FC

[gunsinger]

What is this M-K knot?

[MN Fisher]

Just now, gunsinger said:

What is this M-K knot?

'Multifile Knoten' - comes out of Europe (Dutch I think? Maybe?)

[Deleted account]

5 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

'Multifile Knoten' - comes out of Europe (Dutch I think? Maybe?)

 

I guess we'll have to add DDM to JDM now. I never brake off using uni and palomar, and they are the easiest knots to tie.

[gunsinger]

That M-K knot looks easy to tie.  I may have to give it a go.  I have broken off on the Palomar on hookset a few times but assumed it was my fault for not checking my line often enough.

[galyonj]

56 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

'Multifile Knoten' - comes out of Europe (Dutch I think? Maybe?)

 

Kinda reminds me of a san diego jam.

 

I like a trilene knot. I've never had it break at the knot outside of having to break it off, easy to tie, uses the least amount of line.

[dgkasper58]

Do you test your knot before throwing it out there? 

 

Hard to believe the knot didn't give way under your pressure but to the fish.  I like to think I pull harder then the fish...  On hooksets probably a different story depending on what I am doing.

[WRB]

You shouldn’t be able to break 15-20 Max UG by hand.

The only way to screw up a Palomar knot is twisting the loop putting the hook or lure through it.

I wet the line before snuggling up and pull the tags end tight, then the main line.

Try wrapping a few turns of line around each hand about a foot apart. Put your hands together and pull apart. 20 lb line shouldn’t break.

The San Diego jam knot is good for lures.

Tom

 

[Functional]

10 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

'Multifile Knoten' - comes out of Europe (Dutch I think? Maybe?)

 

I switched to this knot after looking for an alternative to the Palomar on bigger baits. It's become my go to for everything and my Improved Albright will break before this when using leaders. Always preferred 2 loop knots around the bait eye vs one. 

[RenzokukenFisher]

4 hours ago, dgkasper58 said:

 

 

Thanks for all the suggestions you guys! I got some new UG and I'll be sure to not cross any lines when tying the palomar as well as tightening the tag end first. I think I'll also give the San Diego jam knot a try. Thanks again!

[islandbass]

17 hours ago, Catt said:

 

If your line has not crossed you should be able to pull both ends at the same time with very little pressure.

 

I always cinch it tight by pulling the tag end first, pulling the main line first will occasionally cause a little curly q.

That’s what I do too and I believe it really helps minimize trouble. 

[Catt]

You SHOULD NOT have to pull the tag end, the main line, or both with very much pressure.

 

You should be able to pull both at the same time with very little pressure. 

 

Both should slide down to the eye before getting tight, once the knot has slid down to the eye cinch it down by pulling the tag end FIRST & then the main line.

 

[LrgmouthShad]

4 hours ago, Catt said:

You SHOULD NOT have to pull the tag end, the main line, or both with very much pressure.

 

You should be able to pull both at the same time with very little pressure. 

 

Both should slide down to the eye before getting tight, once the knot has slid down to the eye cinch it down by pulling the tag end FIRST & then the main line.

 

Does this apply for other knots as well? I find that I have to apply a bit of pressure to cinch down my clinch knots sometimes. I use 8 turn for clinch, 6 turn for double clinch. Have had few issues with line breakage, except during a cast ☹️.