Wanting my first bait caster...

[bulldog1935]

I think it's a fair guess he's not in the $300 market for a starter casting reel.  

1/4 oz is a pretty good norm for lower limit on starter baitcaster.  

1/4 to 1/2 oz is also a really good range to learn the reel.  

 

Agree with @brophog and @Kdizzle, 3/16 oz and down belong to spinning tackle.  

You can throw down to 1/16 oz with special "BFS" baitcaster combo, but I would keep this option in a back pocket for later - first target where baitcaster shines, and learn to use it.  

 

[bgaviator]

Ugh...

I keep watching videos on baitcasters. They just seem overly complicated for a guy like me. 
I’m almost just contemplating getting a higher quality Zebco spincast at this point. Like the Omega Pro or Bullet. I’m just not sure what I can’t do with these that I could with a baitcast. Can someone explain better to me what a baitcaster would do for my fishing that I couldn’t get on a good spincast?  Seems like the ability to use floro on a baitcast might be a big difference. Is this accurate?  Are there applications where you must use floro?  
 

The lakes I fish are mostly known for crappie, bass, catfish, and the occasional alligator gar. Currently I just do catch and release. Eventually I may like to try catching crappie to eat. I also think about my 12 year old son who goes with me often. He has finally gotten decent at the spincast. It would be nice to keep the setup with something I can just hand to him if he wants to trade rods with me. 
 

I guess maybe I just have baitcast envy cause that’s what all the guys in YouTube videos are using and they make it sound like that’s what you HAVE to use. Not to mention, I just think they look cool ? 

 

appreciate further input on the matter. Thanks. 

[brophog]

When it comes to line on a spincast reel they love mono, hate braid, and flourocarbon it kinda depends. Line management is not great on most spincast reels due to that clamshell design having a pretty narrow gap. Some reels, like the Omega and Bullet, have an oscillating spool that helps.

 

The differences in a spincast reel and baitcast reel are pretty enormous, imo. Everything will be better (and imo, more reliable) on a baitcast reel. Drags are much better, reels are much, much lighter, smoother...just the whole nine yards, really. Your average baitcast reel is designed for a higher price point, so this shouldn’t be a surprise, but the upper limits of a spincast reel just aren’t that high due to its inherent design.

 

The really big one, historically, is gear ratio which really can limit what techniques a spincast reel can employ. Generally speaking, and this includes the Omega, you’re looking at gear ratios of 3:1 or less with line input per turn (IPT) of around 15 inches or so. Compare to a baitcast reel that’s a 6:1 or better and around 26 IPT! And many have gear ratios of 8 or more with IPT in the mid 30’s.

 

The Bullet attempts to solve this, though the result is a reel even bigger, heavier, and more awkward than even a normal spincast reel. But with a 5:1 gear ratio and an IPT of 29 there is no denying it’s a revelation for spincast users. 

[huZZah]

3 hours ago, brophog said:

When it comes to line on a spincast reel they love mono, hate braid, and flourocarbon it kinda depends. Line management is not great on most spincast reels due to that clamshell design having a pretty narrow gap. Some reels, like the Omega and Bullet, have an oscillating spool that helps.

 

The differences in a spincast reel and baitcast reel are pretty enormous, imo. Everything will be better (and imo, more reliable) on a baitcast reel. Drags are much better, reels are much, much lighter, smoother...just the whole nine yards, really. Your average baitcast reel is designed for a higher price point, so this shouldn’t be a surprise, but the upper limits of a spincast reel just aren’t that high due to its inherent design.

 

The really big one, historically, is gear ratio which really can limit what techniques a spincast reel can employ. Generally speaking, and this includes the Omega, you’re looking at gear ratios of 3:1 or less with line input per turn (IPT) of around 15 inches or so. Compare to a baitcast reel that’s a 6:1 or better and around 26 IPT! And many have gear ratios of 8 or more with IPT in the mid 30’s.

 

The Bullet attempts to solve this, though the result is a reel even bigger, heavier, and more awkward than even a normal spincast reel. But with a 5:1 gear ratio and an IPT of 29 there is no denying it’s a revelation for spincast users. 

Ummmmm....
 

I have braid on spinning setups that’s fine/better because it has no memory. Just don’t over/under fill the spool. 
 

Most of my spinning reels are 5.2 ratio, a couple are 6.2...lol.  
 

Everything is not better on casting reels. One semi bad cast can ruin your whole spool. Wind in your face can ruin your whole spool.  
 

Like everything else it’s personal preference. My first casting reel was a shimano Cardiff 200. No magnetic or centrifugal systems to help, all thumb, and it was frustrating at first. Lotta practice with a plug.  First time out...i nearly threw it in the water. 
 

If you want a BC get one, but don’t let people snowball you that is so much better or worse or anything. I have 4 vs 6 spinning setups.  I sorta prefer the way less worry and hassle of spinning most of the time. But not always. 

[bgaviator]

I’m kinda starting to eye one of these Zebco Bullets for the time being. Seems like the ease of a spincast with the speed of a baitcast. Kinda seems like the best of both worlds. 
 

[bulldog1935]

my friend has a Bullet and really likes it.  

It's heavier than a baitcaster.  

Casting a baitcaster will give you more distance and next-level accuracy improvement.  

 

My buddy bought it for his wife, she cast it a couple of times and put it down for lighter spinning tackle.  She became an instant pro with that - this is her bag limit - Lou and I weren't fishing this night, because we limited before breakfast.  

 

In addition to liking it matched with Lami MTC casting rod for dock fishing above, my buddy takes it on inshore kayak and has landed some nice fish. 

I'm planning to give him one of my baitcasters and make him learn it.  

[brophog]

5 hours ago, huZZah said:

Ummmmm....
 

I have braid on spinning setups that’s fine/better because it has no memory. Just don’t over/under fill the spool. 
 

Most of my spinning reels are 5.2 ratio, a couple are 6.2...lol.  
 

Everything is not better on casting reels. One semi bad cast can ruin your whole spool. Wind in your face can ruin your whole spool.  
 

Like everything else it’s personal preference. My first casting reel was a shimano Cardiff 200. No magnetic or centrifugal systems to help, all thumb, and it was frustrating at first. Lotta practice with a plug.  First time out...i nearly threw it in the water. 
 

If you want a BC get one, but don’t let people snowball you that is so much better or worse or anything. I have 4 vs 6 spinning setups.  I sorta prefer the way less worry and hassle of spinning most of the time. But not always. 

 

Spincast not spinning.

[huZZah]

9 minutes ago, brophog said:

 

Spincast not spinning.

? 

 

 

[brophog]

5 hours ago, bgaviator said:

I’m kinda starting to eye one of these Zebco Bullets for the time being. Seems like the ease of a spincast with the speed of a baitcast. Kinda seems like the best of both worlds. 
 

 

From the sounds of it, definitely something to consider. Most big box stores have it on display it seems so you can get a feel for the size.

[huZZah]

I have used my friends Bullet and my only complaint is weight. That thing is heavy for fishing all day. Makes finesse stuff really tiring, but also constant casting made my wrist sore. His solution is to spool it only about 1/2 way. I didn’t really notice much difference. 
 

Other than that, yes, it is a good reel. Very smooth.  IMO overpriced but it’s a quality product. 

[Deephaven]

On 5/1/2021 at 8:06 PM, bgaviator said:

I retrieve right hand side on my current push button reel 

Ignore that.  It is EASY to train your hand to reel, hard to train it to cast.  What arm do you cast with?  Whichever it is buy the reel with the handle on the other side.

 

On 5/1/2021 at 8:11 PM, Kdizzle said:

Personally I would suggest you get on Ebay and buy a Black Max, which is by far the best entry level baitcasting reel on the market, for 20 bucks and spool it up with 10 lb mono, and fishing that for a summer just to get your feet wet with baitcasting reels.

 

Then go buy your cadillac. 

 

In reality I would suggest used as well, but wouldn't start with a BM.  A better used reel that is saleable later when he learns what he likes makes sense.

 

As for a spincaster, I will be a bit more harsh and direct than the rest here.  They have no place in fishing every IMO.  They suck at casting, their drag isn't worth a crap, and they make a mess with line.  If you want "easy" just use spinning.  Spin casting is a terrible abomination.

[huZZah]

22 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

It is EASY to train your hand to reel, hard to train it to cast.  What arm do you cast with? 

Agree. I learned BC rh and have since moved to all left hand retrieve on my bcs. Took my right thumb a fraction of the time to get it. ?‍♂️
 

Kastking also has some decent entry models with good features. And zebco makes their omniflex line that’s perfect for cutting off and respooling to learn. 

[Eric 26]

1 hour ago, huZZah said:

Agree. I learned BC rh and have since moved to all left hand retrieve on my bcs. Took my right thumb a fraction of the time to get it. ?‍♂️
 

Kastking also has some decent entry models with good features. And zebco makes their omniflex line that’s perfect for cutting off and respooling to learn. 

Although I have and enjoy using my Kastking royal legend 2 bait caster I will say it’s nice but the spool tension knob is not the best in the world to setup for the proper tension/lure fall (If that makes sense) also it tends to loosen up after repeated casts. No experience with the black max but I do love my Revo X and in my opinion would fit your needs. I think it’s important you at least go to your favorite store or tackle shop and try to see what you personally like and hopefully find a knowledgeable employee who’s not just trying to sell you something.

[bulldog1935]

@Eric 26 Along the way, I've had a couple of inexpensive baitcasters (low-grade Okuma bought for back-up comes to mind).  They had a really cold-blooded behavior - they'd start stiff, need loosening, and after warming up, you'd have to tighten.  Put them down, pick them up again, and start over.  

[bgaviator]

I do go fish at the spillway a lot using really light crappie jigs. 1/16-1/8. Seems like baitcasters aren’t good for this from what I’ve been reading. That’s why I was thinking about sticking with spincast. I’m not really into open faced spinning rods. Have never really liked those for some reason. 

[Eric 26]

2 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

@Eric 26 Along the way, I've had a couple of inexpensive baitcasters (low-grade Okuma bought for back-up comes to mind).  They had a really cold-blooded behavior - they'd start stiff, need loosening, and after warming up, you'd have to tighten.  Put them down, pick them up again, and start over.  

This is a much better description, my 2 low end reels both behave in this manner. 

 

15 minutes ago, bgaviator said:

I do go fish at the spillway a lot using really light crappie jigs. 1/16-1/8. Seems like baitcasters aren’t good for this from what I’ve been reading. That’s why I was thinking about sticking with spincast. I’m not really into open faced spinning rods. Have never really liked those for some reason. 

It sounds like you’re talking yourself out of purchasing a bait cast reel altogether which is your choice and only your choice. If you choose to fish with spin casting reels only so be it don’t let anyone talk you out of going out fishing which regardless of what you use is the most important part.

[bgaviator]

6 minutes ago, Eric 26 said:

This is a much better description, my 2 low end reels both behave in this manner. 

 

It sounds like you’re talking yourself out of purchasing a bait cast reel altogether which is your choice and only your choice. If you choose to fish with spin casting reels only so be it don’t let anyone talk you out of going out fishing which regardless of what you use is the most important part.

I still want one. But it’s just a shame they don’t seem to be a do-it-all solution. I’m not necessarily opposed to having multiple rod/reel setups for different applications. I’m just the kind of person that tries to find a do-it-all solution whenever possible 

[MN Fisher]

3 minutes ago, bgaviator said:

I still want one. But it’s just a shame they don’t seem to be a do-it-all solution. I’m not necessarily opposed to having multiple rod/reel setups for different applications. I’m just the kind of person that tries to find a do-it-all solution whenever possible 

Even with spinning or spin-casting rigs - there is no such thing as a 'do it all'.

 

Baitcasting - a 7-speed reel on a MH/F rod is probably going to be the most versatile rig available - but there will still be things it can't do.

[Gorris317]

My first baitcaster was a Pro Max combo. 7 speed reel with a MH/F rod. Used that for a season just to make sure that this type of setup was something I was going to use. The next year I invested in a more expensive rod and reel.

 

I now own a couple setups because one just won't do everything. Fluro is not ideal for topwater frogs and faster reels take more work for deep diving cranks. So I built setups for techniques that I fish. You don't need 12 combos or more like some people have. Get one setup for now for your "workhorse" combo then add more combos when things go on sale.