Graphite vs Aluminum frame preference/questions

[NavyVet1204]

In my ever expanding and evolving quest for knowledge in my favorite thing in the world to do, I have to ask....

 

What exactly are your experience(s) with graphite vs aluminum in bait caster frames? What I specifically mean is, Have you ever actually “worn out” a bait caster because it had a graphite frame that was shot? I know aluminum seems to be the preferred stock and it makes sense, but have you ever actually had to retire a reel due to the integrity of the graphite frame? 

[bulldog1935]

it wouldn't be the frame wearing out as much as shifting within the frame affecting the drive life - alignment issues.  

Have never owned a plastic-frame baitcaster, but fished through a couple of spinning reels.  

 

[jimmyjoe]

  ^^^   This   ^^^.

   Wear is controlled by the placement of bushings and bearings; no rotating shafts ride directly on "graphite" or plastic.  The bugaboo is flex.                 jj

[Columbia Craw]

Yes.  Alignment of the drive train turned them into coffee grinders in a year.  Must have machined aluminum frames.

[bulldog1935]

it becomes a question of how far are you willing to go to save weight and save dollars.  

Are you buying throw away or do do want to fish a dozen years.  

I always borrow Tackle Advisors observations on the Shimano Nasci - "the smoothest-refined-feeling" reel on the $99 table, Yet the main gear is not supported in a ball bearing - instead, the main gear rides in a plastic "bushing" formed in the plastic side plate. 

 

 

[garroyo130]

For me, the issue was not a rough feeling reel, but one that would simply not engage under heavy load. No gear teeth were broken although I'm sure wear was a factor since I had the reel for over 8 years.

 

The issue would probably be lessened or eliminated if the reel has a dual supported pinion gear but graphites typically dont. The design on that reel was also not the best with the bearings mounted on the spool and no bearing on the cast control knob.

[Eric 26]

As I’ve stated in other posts I own a couple cheap reels, 2 bait casters being a Kast king royal legend 2 and a Piscifun Spark. I only fish retention ponds in and around my neighborhood, hoping to expand now that the kids are older if I could just stop having to go to that pesky thing called work ? The ponds I fish don’t offer 5+ pounders but mere 1/2 to 1 1/2 pounders with the above average throughout the year. In my humble opinion for the $35.00 shipped to the door if they last 2 years I’m a happy man, I certainly enjoy my Shimano SLX & Daiwa Tatulas but I feel there is a time and place for all my equipment. With that said I wouldn’t sell 1 Daiwa for 10 cheap reels.

[NavyVet1204]

I appreciate all the info guys. I definitely have more to go on now than before regarding this. I only have one graphite framed bc and that’s my wife’s Mach 2 combo reel. It is a great reel in its own right and I just wanted to make sure that it would last. I also know that it’s longevity depends on the person and the use too.

[Eric 26]

Just now, NavyVet1204 said:

I appreciate all the info guys. I definitely have more to go on now than before regarding this. I only have one graphite framed bc and that’s my wife’s Mach 2 combo reel. It is a great reel in its own right and I just wanted to make sure that it would last. I also know that it’s longevity depends on the person and the use too.

I will say although I’ve never used/owned that particular reel, handling it in store it is built far better than my two.

[GetFishorDieTryin]

58 minutes ago, NavyVet1204 said:

I appreciate all the info guys. I definitely have more to go on now than before regarding this. I only have one graphite framed bc and that’s my wife’s Mach 2 combo reel. It is a great reel in its own right and I just wanted to make sure that it would last. I also know that it’s longevity depends on the person and the use too.

It comes down to what you want to do with the reel.  Anytime your cranking the drag down and swinging for the fences to set the hook with a carbon framed reel there's a good chance your going to feel give.  Now if your throwing an underspin or a popper where your not cranking your drag down you probably wont have issues with a synthetic framed reel.  Keep in mind all carbon frames aren't of equal strength or quality so results can vary.

[dodgeguy]

I've preached against graphite framed reels for years. I still do most of the time. Today's advices graphite used in more expensive reels are a different deal. Lew's Custom Lite is made of tensor tech. It's a extremely hard graphite that needs to be machined. I recently purchased one and will give a review at the end of the year. Shimano also has a high tech graphite. I've have snapped necks on spinning reels made of graphite and have seen broken reel feet on baitcasters made of graphite. Hopefully the newer high tech graphite solve these issues.

[NYWayfarer]

7 hours ago, NavyVet1204 said:

I appreciate all the info guys. I definitely have more to go on now than before regarding this. I only have one graphite framed bc and that’s my wife’s Mach 2 combo reel. It is a great reel in its own right and I just wanted to make sure that it would last. I also know that it’s longevity depends on the person and the use too.

My Mach 2 baitcaster is three years old. It was part of a combo but I broke the rod high sticking a LMB into my kayak. It still works fine with little maintenance. I have never taken it apart to service.

 

One issue with it is if I cast real hard the thumb bar will disengage and make an awful grinding noise. My Crush will do this as well. None of my Lew’s reels with aluminum frames have this issue. The other issue is the cost. It is overpriced IMO. The green paint job and Winn Grip knobs drive the cost up. Folks would be better off purchasing a Lew’s LFS and buying the custom knobs, preferably the black or gray ones as the neon green Mach 2 knobs get filthy.
 

The reel is still in my rotation. I have it on a Lew’s Laser HS rod

$29.99 from Walmart. I take this combo places where I know my stuff is going to get beat up. 

 

[NavyVet1204]

9 minutes ago, NYWayfarer said:

My Mach 2 baitcaster is three years old. It was part of a combo but I broke the rod high sticking a LMB into my kayak. It still works fine with little maintenance. I have never taken it apart to service.

 

One issue with it is if I cast real hard the thumb bar will disengage and make an awful grinding noise. My Crush will do this as well. None of my Lew’s reels with aluminum frames have this issue. The other issue is the cost. It is overpriced IMO. The green paint job and Winn Grip knobs drive the cost up. Folks would be better off purchasing a Lew’s LFS and buying the custom knobs, preferably the black or gray ones as the neon green Mach 2 knobs get filthy.
 

The reel is still in my rotation. I have it on a Lew’s Laser HS rod

$29.99 from Walmart. I take this combo places where I know my stuff is going to get beat up. 

 

That’s where this rod and reel is going to go as well.

[NOC 1]

I prefer magnesium to either in most cases, but Aluminum makes a heavier reel that balances a long handled rod or a long rod in general better than a lighter Mag reel. I don't have much use for graphite reels in general but I am thinking about picking up a new Chronarch this year just to see what a higher quality version is like. Most of the Graphite reels I have had or used have been cheap reels.

[MAN]

The graphite used today is much better than the plastic utilized back in the days as we transitioned away from all metal reels. The carbon frames and sideplates consist of a 30/70 ratio carbon nylon blend and are very strong.  I personally have never had any issues with the current graphite frame reels against 1 piece aluminum reels. Frame flex..reel foot breaking etc...never personally have had issues with these.    

[bulldog1935]

There are simple hardness issues where metal contacts resin bosses.  

The hardest of resins, acetyl, is still softer than aluminum.  

The resin can change its shape under contact stress - what's called brinnelling when it happens to metal gear teeth - mashing.  

The TA vid I linked above is talking about sliding wear on the resin "bushing," and both mechanisms can be going on at at the same time, allowing the gear or metal bearing to walk around in the boss that's supposed to pin it.  

Flexure of the macro structure is an added concern.  

[the reel ess]

I prefer a metal frame. I've owned a metal framed reel that lasted nearly 30 years. I did repair it a couple times, but it was normal wear. Then I've owned two graphite framed reels that just didn't last. Once that frame is warped it's game over. Now there are a few graphite framed reels that I suppose are high quality. Lew's makes a graphite framed reel that's $140.

https://www.lews.com/en/shop/casting/mh2ac

I would expect good service out of any reel at that price point. I'd avoid the really cheap ones and focus on the $80 and up range, no matter the frame. Honestly, getting a BC reel cheaper than that would worry me.

 

That said, I believe any BC reel that cost more than $50 should be able to land big bass. 

[the reel ess]

I'd like to add that, with cheaper graphite framed reels, you often get cheaper components throughout the reel.

[bulldog1935]

23 hours ago, the reel ess said:

...

That said, I believe any BC reel that cost more than $50 should be able to land big bass. 

 

But what you get with metal frame, they can do this and come back for More.  

[the reel ess]

1 minute ago, bulldog1935 said:

 

But what you get with metal frame, they can do this and come back for More.  

Yeah, I tried to use an ABU Garcia LP series BC reel for my jig combo. It didn't last a season. Now it was not new. But that reel retailed for about $80 back in the day. Anyway, lesson learned.

[galyonj]

On 4/29/2021 at 12:15 PM, garroyo130 said:

The issue would probably be lessened or eliminated if the reel has a dual supported pinion gear but graphites typically dont. The design on that reel was also not the best with the bearings mounted on the spool and no bearing on the cast control knob.

 

Came here to say this. At this point in my journey of discovery and education RE what features I'm looking for in reels going forward, I'm looking more at better support and alignment for the guts of the reel.

 

Body material plays into it, but features like Shimano's X-Ship and Lew's P2 pinion feel like a bigger win(in terms of longevity and usability) to me than what the frame's made of.

 

This probably matters more in casting reels than spinning, but that's probably my inexperience talking.

 

Edit: 

 

Also, for casting, the brake system matters way more to me than it used to, now that I kind of have a better understanding of how each brake system works (and when a given system is doing the most work during the cast).

[bulldog1935]

Daiwa has BB-supported pinion, as well.  Definitely on my seeming modified otherwise '18-version mag-frame Steez SV TW.  

The modified part is the spool main bearing has a wedge sleeve ("bearing retainer") that positions it deeper into the spool and farther away from the pinion bearing - this part only shows up on the latest schematics.  

As such, it's "unspun" mass and has only good results.  

Without it, the 1030 bearing wedges deeper in the frame boss, and just outside the spool.  

 

 

The Steez has 2 BB supporting the pinion

 

Can also show you a schematic with the exact reel designation but doesn't have the part 29 bearing retainer.  

[bulldog1935]

@BaitFinesse

I believe the bearing retainers belong to the G series spools, again, to position the bearing inside the spool hollow.  They won't work on a deep, flat-flange spool.  

I moved it to the Roro X spool bearing and could immediately see the difference. on the bearing position in the frame boss and spool width.    

(so I ordered another part for the G1 spool bearing).  

Again, they're fixed un-spun mass, and only do good things.  

[H0ldMyJig]

As aluminum frame reels have become more affordable and lighter, it's best to get aluminum frame reel. Just in case you have an epic day of 5lbers+. Graphite is meh. If you know your waters then you buy accordingly. Aluminum is not necessary for everybody. But if you want the longevity and you know your gonna catch hogs, aluminum (or better) is absolutely necessary.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

It’s more involved than just material. There are different types, grades and manufacturing of each. There are junk poured aluminum and there are rigid graphites. Try to shop in the $100> msrp range and quality is much less of a worry. You almost can’t go wrong among the major brands. Use the rod to fight the fish as intended and avoid just winching them in on a locked drag.